EVO ECOTY 2011 Results

Mr Robert · Nov 7, 2011

It think the consistency in EVO's judgement can be traced through the last few years of ranking the Ecoty:

1998
1 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 (996)
2 Lotus Elise Sport 135
3 Ferrari F355 F1
4 Subaru Impreza Turbo
5 Caterham Clubsport 1.8

1999
1 Porsche 911 GT3 (996.1)
2 Ferrari 360 Modena
3 Subaru Impreza RB5 (PPP)
4 BMW M5 (E39)
5 Peugeot 306 Rallye

2000
1 Porsche 911 Turbo (996)
2 Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 VT
3 Subaru Impreza P1
4 Lotus 340R
5 Vauxhall VX220

2001
1 Pagani Zonda C12 S
2 BMW M3 (E46)
3 Lamborghini Murcielago
4 TVR Tamora
5 Porsche 911 Carrera(996)

2002
1 Honda NSX-R
2 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S (996)
3 Ferrari 575M Fiorano
4 Mercedes SL55 AMG
5 Lotus Elise 111S

2003
1 Porsche 911 GT3 (996.2)
2 Lamborghini Gallardo
3 Renualt Clio V6 255
4 Ferrari 360 CS
5 Noble M12 GTO-3R

2004
1 Porsche 911 Carrera S (997)
2 Lotus Exige (S2)
3 Renualt Clio 182 Cup
4 Porsche Boxster
5 Lotus Elise 111R

2005
1 Ford GT
2 Ferrari F430
3 Renault Clio 182 Trophy
4 Lamborghini Gallardo SE
5 BMW M3 CS (E46)

2006
1 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
2 Porsche 911 GT3 (997)
3 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
4 Corvette Z06
5 Lotus Elise S

2007
1 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997)
2 Ferrari F430 Scuderia
3 Audi R8
4 Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black
5 BMW M3 (E90)

2008
1 Nissan GT-R
2 Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4
3 Porsche 911 GT2 (997)
4 Renault Megane R26.R
5 Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione

2009
1 Lotus Evora
2 Porsche 911 GT3 (997.2)
3 Noble M600
4 Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SV
5 Renault Clio 200 Cup

2010
1 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997.2)
2 Ferrari 458 Italia
3 Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997)
4 Lexus LFA
5 Mercedes SLS AMG

Zafiro · Nov 7, 2011

Looking in the past there are actually more bimmers in top 5 than I thought. No, seeing 1M in third place isnt shocking at all.

Deckhook · Nov 7, 2011

Just_me said:
Looking in the past there are actually more bimmers in top 5 than I thought. No, seeing 1M in third place isnt shocking at all.

The shock is beating the Cayman R which is a more polished performer with superior balance, superior steering feel and superior throttle response which in turn means throttle control to name but a few things. Guys you can applaud this result all you like but I view it as suspect.

Zafiro · Nov 7, 2011

Deckhook said:
Guys you can applaud this result all you like but I view it as suspect.

Which you are entitled to believe in but dont expect everyone to agree with your suspected opinion. I would find it suspect if M5 was in top 5 though. 1M did well and it's well deserved. End of story.

Mr Robert · Nov 7, 2011

Deckhook said:
The shock is beating the Cayman R which is a more polished performer with superior balance, superior steering feel and superior throttle response which in turn means throttle control to name but a few things. Guys you can applaud this result all you like but I view it as suspect.

Maybe they found it to be less involving and, well, plain "fun", than the 1M? Maybe they found that the 1M truly delivered what was expected? Let's read the story first.

FromageFrais · Nov 7, 2011

dr Dunkel said:
20051 Ford GT2 Ferrari F4303 Renault Clio 182 Trophy4 Lamborghini Gallardo SE5 BMW M3 CS (E46)

No 911.

Mr Robert · Nov 7, 2011

FromageFrais said:
No 911.

Probably because there was no 911 in the starting field

The Cayman S finished 6:th.

Soup · Nov 7, 2011

Guibo · Nov 7, 2011

Deckhook said:
The shock is beating the Cayman R which is a more polished performer with superior balance, superior steering feel and superior throttle response which in turn means throttle control to name but a few things. Guys you can applaud this result all you like but I view it as suspect.

The Cayman R is a more polished car, but that doesn't necessarily make it more fun to drive. Evo editors' criteria run from dynamic polish to fun to just having a character that makes you want to drive it, something that makes you look over your shoulder as you walk away. And yes, they do value cars that can punch above their class too.
They had already picked the 1M in a previous group comparo, so a surprise would come if they voted the other way around this time (though it's probably happened before too). In that comparo, they wrote a mini-test against the M3, so if there's any concern as to whether a 1M could beat an M3, then the answer is yes.

Also, the 1M was in competition with some very polished cars in Autocar's Grip Challenge, and even though it didn't win the comparo, it apparently won the hearts of the editors more than any other car there. Here's why:
Is grip mutually exclusive from grin? - Anything goes

Another question is: Is the Cayman R's absolute edge in driving dynamics likely to be exploited and realized on normal roads under more typical driving situations? And is that enough to overcome everything that the 1M brings to the table?

FWIW, here's Chris Harris responding to someone on Twitter who questioned the result:
"I'd have a 1M over the Cayman R any day of the week."

And apparently, his "test drive" of the FF from the passenger seat might not have been a joke after all. Also via Twitter on Oct 25:
"DBishop_Zenvo: Very curious, did Ferrari ever let you drive another Ferrari after your excellent article in Jalopnik in Februrary?"
"harrismonkey: Nope, banned."

If Harris gave the FF any points, that would be a joke.

Deckhook · Nov 7, 2011

Guibo said:
Another question is: Is the Cayman R's absolute edge in driving dynamics likely to be exploited and realized on normal roads under more typical driving situations? And is that enough to overcome everything that the 1M brings to the table?

You could argue same thing for either the GT3RS4.0 or MP4, does that make them any less relevant?

Guibo said:
FWIW, here's Chris Harris responding to someone on Twitter who questioned the result:
"I'd have a 1M over the Cayman R any day of the week."

This is no surprise and he is entitled to his opinion as are the rest of EVO but this doesn't mean that they are right or that I have to agree with them. :t-cheers:

martinbo · Nov 7, 2011

Some things never change eh, Bob? You're missing another very important word: Harris is entitled to his professional opinion because this what he's paid to do. It's exactly the same as why you'd rather the Neurologist's opinion over the ward matron's when it comes to diagnosing brain tumours.

Tell you what, go and film yourself chucking the 1M, RS3 and Cayman R sideways on a public road whilst giving us an entertaining running commentary so that we may judge to what extent your opinion measures up to EVO's. Ta.

martinbo · Nov 7, 2011

Threads merged for obvious reasons.

Deckhook · Nov 7, 2011

Martin I thought I already said he was entitled to his opinion and I didn't doubt his professional credibility but you can't deny that the majority of the motoring world's opinion is that the Cayman R is superior driver's car.

P.S. this is getting us no where, let's all agree to disagree. :t-cheers:

martinbo · Nov 7, 2011

Bob, I personally am of the opinion that the Cayman R is the superior, more precise, faster handler than the 1M. But in this test it's not enough to beat the 1M. Not enough to justify it as superior overall in this publication's car of the year contest - for reasons beyond mere clinical precision. The whole point that EVO is trying to make - like it has done so many times before with even lesser machinery - is that value-for-money is a powerful factor in this contest. The Aventador, by precisely your same argument, should beat the Cayman R. It doesn't.

But wait, you'll conjur up a whole raft of reasons why the massively fast, precise and overwhelmingly visceral isn't as good a car as the Cayman R.

The facts remain however. 1M garners more votes than Cayman which garners more votes than Lamborghini and so on.

The 1M shows one thing: you don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of money in order to partake in The Thrill of Driving. And that's ALWAYS been an essential consideration in ECOTY. If you don't get this now you never bloody will.

Deckhook · Nov 7, 2011

We are going around in circles here. You yourself are in agreement that the 1M doesn't have the precision or polish of the Cayman R so maybe you also feel that you wouldn't rate it above the Cayman R, if so then I don't understand the reaction when I question the result like its not that I'm saying it should have came last only a switch of positions between these two cars and for the reasons I believe are most important when picking the best of the best.

Guibo · Nov 7, 2011

Deckhook said:
You could argue same thing for either the GT3RS4.0 or MP4, does that make them any less relevant?
This is no surprise and he is entitled to his opinion as are the rest of EVO but this doesn't mean that they are right or that I have to agree with them.

You are quite sure Evo's verdict is a statement of relevance (or lack thereof)? I doubt it. They're not saying one car is more or less relevant than another. They're just picking the car that, on average, appeals to them more. Perhaps, more of the time, the 1M is the more engaging car to drive. Instead of bringing the GT3 RS 4.0 or McLaren into the discussion, try answering the question as it pertains to 1M vs Cayman R. Also bear in mind that your typical magazine road tester isn't necessarily going to be assessing these cars as most customers would. Notice in the videos you see absolutely no other traffic around.

It doesn't mean that they are wrong, nor is anyone saying you must agree with them. You seemed to want to know how the 1M could come out on top. I think I've given some possible reasons that are not completely unreasonable.

Deckhook said:
We are going around in circles here. You yourself are in agreement that the 1M doesn't have the precision or polish of the Cayman R so maybe you also feel that you wouldn't rate it above the Cayman R, if so then I don't understand the reaction when I question the result like its not that I'm saying it should have came last only a switch of positions between these two cars and for the reasons I believe are most important when picking the best of the best.

Is precision and polish everything? It's for sure important to some, but I personally don't think it means everything. A 458 Italia is probably leagues ahead of a 599 GTO in that regard, but I'd rather have the GTO personally.
Also, the Cayman R isn't universally picked over the 1M. Car Enthusiast and, if I recall correctly, TopGear were more enthusiastic for the 1M; James May has written a couple of enlightening columns on how on-the-limit behavior is mostly irrelevent to most of the general buying public, with the underlying idea that we should be careful not to read too much into these kinds of tests.
In the German tests that you're probably referring to, sure the Cayman R is rated higher when you distill everything down to objective points scoring. But I doubt that is the basis for many people who choose to buy these cars. They buy what they like, and a couple of dozen points either way in a German mag isn't likely to sway a decision.

FromageFrais · Nov 8, 2011

I would probably rather an M600 over all them cars.

martinbo · Nov 8, 2011

Remember Brundle and Harris having a good ol' chinwag about the M600 at Goodwood this year? Seems like a genuinely good piece of kit. Somehow though, it's about as inspiring as 1 ply toilet paper for me.

Mr Robert · Nov 8, 2011

FromageFrais said:
I would probably rather an M600 over all them cars.

Now, that's just cheesy...

Deckhook · Nov 8, 2011

Noble have a gift at making some of the purest controls of any car which is a real credit to them but it's just a shame than this brilliance doesn't include an exterior or interior to match, I wished they were more like Lotus who seem to be getting their act together...... about time.

And on that subject fingers crossed that the new Lotus Espirt gets made and makes it to one of these events soon because it's one brand that really can take to fight to Porsche and beat them at what their are best at.

EVO ECOTY 2011 Results

Kraftwagen König

Supreme Roadmaster

Autotechnik Ace

Supreme Roadmaster

Kraftwagen König

Bavarian Cruiser

Kraftwagen König

Aerodynamic Ace

Autobahn Explorer

Autotechnik Ace

Drift Dynamo

Drift Dynamo

Autotechnik Ace

Drift Dynamo

Autotechnik Ace

Autobahn Explorer

Bavarian Cruiser

Drift Dynamo

Kraftwagen König

Autotechnik Ace

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