M3/M4 CAR Magazine: BMW CANCELING E92 M3 CSL

[LaArtist]

^What about this one

I believe everyone knows that Rolls-Royce has been planning a land-speed record challenging car. As I have heard it, this car will be powered by a twin-turbo version of the EX100's 9.0 liter V-16, that will produce 1000 BHP, at the rear-wheel. The power will be sent to the rear-wheels via a 7 speed F1 transmission. This cars carbon fiber monocoque chassis that it will share with BMW's Sauber developed M1 supercar

PS
Taken from carspyshots and member Mclaren P_10

 

[SKY]

So, will we see a CSL version of the E92 M3, or intead get a FL M3 with lightweight solutions and more power?.

a 1er sedan will be the same as X1 and X3, similar sizes cars. And i am a bit worried about this new models. BMW wants to sell cars at low prices, and they incorporate new models to do it, similar in specs to their bigger brothers, but with the only porpose of sell cars to people than a few years ago were not the target of BMW productline.

BMW is a premium manufacter. People starts buying a Ibiza, then buy a Megane, then a Mondeo, and then they go for a premium car (BMW, Mercedes or Audi). Does BMW want to loose its exclusivity selling cheap models?.

That can be done with a small car, like 1er, but a new sedan under the 3er?, there´s no market for that. There´s no PREMIUM market for taht, only market if they look after people than usually buys another type of car (Citroen, Renault, Ford...).

Raise the hand who is not with me. WE WANT PREMIUM SPORTY BMWs.

 

[EnI]

Yeah ... some super-duper-crazy RR car ala Veyron has been in rumor mills for a while now. RR have been in contact with some top-of-the-top RR customers if they are interested in such a car - and ready to buy it even before it's developed. Only about 50 cars made, every car different by trim / color etc.
But I guess that's just an idea.


*******

BMW super car, episode #237

BMW Supercar will be ready sometimes in the future: as said - as a celebration of F1 success (sometimes after 2010). And will also come with F1 tech - which will then be green (KERS, hybrid, turbo, superlight chassis etc). ED pinnacle all the way. Super-green supercar.

But such a car is rumored to be REALLY hardcore --- not like some fancy cars like SLR, R8, Veyron etc. It will be a raw racer. More Zonda-like.

Some even say this car won't even be for sale, but will be leased to users - like Hydrogen 7 cars are. A "serial producton prototype".
Production number is rumored to be really small. It will be a terrific tour-de-tech. And thus a demonstration of BMW engineering capabilities.


Before that a Z8-based M-coupe was planned - not exactly a supercar, but a very sporty 2-seater. But with Z8 project being reconsidered I guess this coupe future is iffy as well.

 

[bachir99]

Guys why are u mad ? just go and buy a C63 AMG like i did and the story is over. Goodnight and have nice dreams.

 

[Mr Robert]

So, it is out with the cool stuff and in with the stuff that no one really wants? I guess it makes sense. Marketing can say what they want though, the sporty image will be lost with the cancellation of cars like the Z4 M, Z8, CSL and M-version 1-series. Even more so if some of these are replaced with no perormance gain Performance Packs. Nice move, from the sportiest of the german three to the least sporty.

Let's just hope that this baroque Rolls never happens.

 

[Matt]

Social responsibility....

-companies like BMW, although need to stay true to their heritage, also need to read the writing on the wall. THe world is asking for fuel efficiency - they cant be wasting resources to satisfy the fanboys anymore. Sometimes for a company to stay afloat - and keep on the cutting age, following the trend is the smarter decision.

In my opinion the world doesn't need another CSL (nor a veyron) - and im not alone on that, especially here in california. Besides fuel efficiency is defining the new cutting edge, the new performance, not speed. Staying on the cutting edge, is in fact for BMW staying true to their heritage.

 

[Merc1]

Yawn.

M

 

[Matt]

^ haha, for you and I, I suppose.

 

[Merc1]

If BMW can't do green and performance then the plot is lost. Green doesn't mean getting rid of everything that isn't green. Even Toyota manages to have a green image while selling a half dozen SUVs, some of them real gas guzzlers at that.

You can Green the hell out of the everyday 1,3,5,7-Series vehicles and leave the M stuff alone, IMO! Don't cut the M stuff because someone wants a 100 MPG "100i"

M

 

[Matt]

^They would be stretching themselves far too thin. They already have the M3, which is iconic enough for 99.9% of people -- Consider the cost of designing, engineering and producing a car like the CSL that very few people (bar us) knows about. A green car on the other hand has profit potential -- and image potential as well. Bitch all you want, the accounting department, the marketing department, and the shareholders have far more say over this than you or I.... unfortunately....

And yes, of course it sucks.

 

[Merc1]

I don't buy it. Spreading themselves too thin? Nonsense. If BMW doesn't have money/resources to develop a hardcore version of an already high-performance vehicle then they've lost one of their main reasons for being. A M3 CSL isn't going to break BMW nor would it harm their image.

The "Green" people will buy that 100i that gets 100 MPG, while others will buy a M3 CSL. Everyone doesn't care about being green or 100 MPG.

I can't believe I'm here arguing with supposed to be BMW enthusiasts for a hardcore BMW based on an existing model. Forget the supercar argument, that would take a lot, but to do a hardcore M3 that should be relatively easy for a company like BMW.


M

 

[PanterroR]

I don't buy it. Spreading themselves too thin? Nonsense. If BMW doesn't have money/resources to develop a hardcore version of an already high-performance vehicle then they've lost one of their main reasons for being. A M3 CSL isn't going to break BMW nor would it harm their image.

The "Green" people will buy that 100i that gets 100 MPG, while others will buy a M3 CSL. Everyone doesn't care about being green or 100 MPG.

I can't believe I'm here arguing with supposed to be BMW enthusiasts for a hardcore BMW based on an existing model. Forget the supercar argument, that would take a lot, but to do a hardcore M3 that should be relatively easy for a company like BMW.


M

 

[EnI]

Again:

BMW SPORTY IMAGE DOESN'T DERIVE FROM SPECIAL SPIN-OFF VARIANTS (eg. CSL, supercar etc), BUT FROM THE SPORTY SPIRIT PRESENT ACROSS ENTIRE PRODUCT PORTFOLIO.

Remember that!

 

[LaArtist]

^Gotcha
But why did they then make it the last time?
What happend between then and now?
It couldnt be the previous cars fault as it was kick ass..and maybe the best thing that has ever come out of munich..
And it gave BMW alot of attention and cred....
And they are a bigger and more economically strong brand now than back then..
Must be either be a huge change in philosophy..
And that change is not from Sport to Green..
Its from Less Money To More Money..
A philosophy of greed if you would like to put it in those words..

 

[Mr Robert]

BMW SPORTY IMAGE DOESN'T DERIVE FROM SPECIAL SPIN-OFF VARIANTS (eg. CSL, supercar etc), BUT FROM THE SPORTY SPIRIT PRESENT ACROSS ENTIRE PRODUCT PORTFOLIO.

I agree that BMW does not need a supercar, that type of image is not consistent with the working class hero image of the sporty cars from BMW. Marketing may scream all they want but if BMW think that the 320i or the 525i is sporty enough to keep up BMW:s image then BMW is in deep trouble.

The cars that lure people into the mystics of BMW, the cars that show what BMW means when they say "Sheer driving pleasure" will always be needed. This will be evident when the oxymoron "SAV" is compared to true thrilling drives...

 

[EnI]

As said: apart from legendary M1 & E46 M3 CSL there were no significant other super-duper sporty production model from BMW.

And BMW brand retained all the sporty image all time long ... despite not having a super-sportler in portfolio. How come? As explained: BMW sportiness is spread across the whole model line, not concentrated in a single model!


But if some just really want to get super-duper sporty version of BMW ... I'm sure BMW will deliver street-legal version of new M3 GTR in the near future. Just like they did with the E46 M3 GTR ... A very limited production of about dozen cars. O

r you will argue now that it should be produced in hundreds or thausands to count.

Btw here's the racing version of E92 M3 GTR:

 

[coolraoul]

Again:

BMW SPORTY IMAGE DOESN'T DERIVE FROM SPECIAL SPIN-OFF VARIANTS (eg. CSL, supercar etc), BUT FROM THE SPORTY SPIRIT PRESENT ACROSS ENTIRE PRODUCT PORTFOLIO.

Remember that!

That was good when the average Beemer was twice as powerful as the average X-car. When Beemer's straight-six was miles ahead from anything not coming from Italy. When Audi was similar to Renault, and Merc a brand that nothing on earth could touch but with no sport at all in its spirit.

Now every carmaker has its M-wannabe division, a lot of them have good V6 and some of them V8s, and BMW is the only one of the Three without anything really really sporty.

Times are changing. Mercedes lost a part of its reputation, BMW can face the same problem. Merc lost everything because of wrong decisions, BMW is no God and could make the same mistake.

I don't understand why BMW want at any cost to be considered as an off-road and van specialist. You can't scream about driving pleasure and not having more than one tenth of your line-up who is lower than 1.65m and weights less than 2 tons.
Where is the passion? Sure it's not reasonable to make a supercar, but if BMW was reasonable they would only build Logan-type cars. And stripping an existing car out to make it lighter is not extraordinarily hard task!

BMW was meaning passion, why is it getting lost? It's boring to be reasonable. BMW is getting boring with its SUVs, even if they innovate by giving them stupid names.

Why so serious?

 

[EnI]

Because you guys are completely irrational ...

How can a limited-production M3 CSL (eg. 1500 units produced) make an impact on performance of eg. 328i ?

Do you think 328i will now perform worse because CSL version won't be there?

If a core product is good, you don't need a tacky image maker - like a super-sportler.

R8 doesn't make A4 3.0TDI any better. You can like R8, and how it drives ... but when test-driving an A4 and not liking it ... would you still buyy it? Just because it waers the same four-rings badge as R8?

I don't think so.


You guys HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT MARKETING. Just as 99% of "forum-smarty-pants" don't. Don't discuss something you have no knowledge & insight about.

But ... if you think you can run BMW AG better then the current team, write to the Quandts & other investros - and peraps they will sit you as new BMW CEO.

And then you'll be able to kill all the X-projects, produce a super-car, CSL version of every M car, etc. I'm sure you'll be named "Best CEO ever" by Forbes, Time, People, Financial Times, WSJ, etc.

******

Guys, stop dreaming!

 

[LaArtist]

^and i guess you know it all
All you seem to know is how to defend BMW no matter what they do
Thats about where your knowledge ends..

 

[Mr Robert]

And then you'll be able to kill all the X-projects, produce a super-car, CSL version of every M car, etc. I'm sure you'll be named "Best CEO ever" by Forbes, Time, People, Financial Times, WSJ, etc.

Great attitude. I will only quote the interesting part so that when you regret your writing, you can change it.

Like I have said before:

Well, here is the thing, we love BMW cars, not BMW AG. Love is not rational. A CSL M3 will obviously not make a 330i more sporty but the image of the 330i will be more sporty. The car will represent a company that is serious about driver satisfaction on every level.

Why is BMW engaged in the F1 circus by the way? I thaught the 116i was sporty enough and a F1 car will not make it any sportier. You see, I'm not into the marketing business, im just a stupid customer who does not get it.