M3/M4 CAR Magazine: BMW CANCELING E92 M3 CSL

[SCOTT27]

And so the hatred commences , hardly surprising since most were consumed by the Chris Bangle Design era.

As before I have discussed the current situation within BMW. Marketing exercises known as Vanity projects have been replaced by further development within " BMW Efficient Dynamics" Why?
Sustainability and the ability to produce cars that can be efficient and well within restrictions for the future.
We want to be on the road when everyone else is being forced off.

The future is not all hybrids although each BMW model will feature an Active Hybrid model starting with the X6 , X5 and 7er this will eventually spread through the PAS,5er,3er, 1er etc.
More developments are on the way under Efficient Dynamics that will make regular petrol models meet their targets.

Right now the focus is on the image generated by small premium cars such as the rise in success of the 1er products which will also follow through with the X1 and in the next generation model with a Z2 Roadster and a variant under the forthcoming Progressive Activity Sedan.
Surprisingly now BMW have returned to the shelf regarding the current 1er and will launch alternative models aimed at keeping the small premium BMW line intact until the next generation.

Again I repeat the plans for the CSL models radically changed when Efficient Dynamics became the priority , Lightweight materials although the norm were the main consideration but now advances in Efficient Dynamics will effectively become the main talking point for BMW's M-Division. The new plans for the M3 CSL will showcase the lightweight ideas for the future and the technology.

The first BMW car that will use KERS Technology will be a model from M-Division, as of now that technology is work in progress and as of now our engineers are making great progress in sorting out the glitches , But it will be ready and available one day. The M3 CSL was the first model expected to be the groundbreaking BMW to receive this technology but the technology is still very much in development and in infancy.
To launch a CSL today would be counter-productive to the current car when our talking point would be the PS output. But we like to bring lots more to the conversation and as of now we cannot.

Maybe I am getting tired of repeating myself but seldom few take the message that M-Division will become the absolute "pinacle" of Efficient Dynamics. There is a lot we have learned by our current M models - Lightweight materials as one , The need for better fuel consumption and larger fuel tanks , and inspired by our GINA exercise Active Aerodynamics.
Which in several BMW models today behind the kidney grille flaps open and close improving airflow - The essence of the GINA Concept today.

More the reason Why? Why change the direction? Why not follow the competitors? Why not produce a Vanity project like this manufacturer?
Some people do not understand that BMW is not like any other manufacturer we want each product to be a typical BMW whether it is a SAV or Roadster , Touring or indeed a progressive Activity Sedan It still remains a BMW so there would be no sacrifice in typical BMW attributes.

Today we are accustomising to what will happen and preparing ourselves to what is over the horizon, Will The world head into recession? we do not know but current climate is not so clear.
For now it's sustainability and what we are doing is gearing up to that, tomorrow however is another day.
I would not say that we are being (Gay?) as someone harshly put it , But being more sensible with comments like "Efficient Dynamics" and the Hydrogen 7 project is just marketing by our rivals. Suggests that our success in this area is getting to them , We focused on environmental developments first when they were focusing on beating BMW .
When you actually realise they have not.

 

[Cashmere]

Another old quote which Scott made in another thread:

But I will leave you with a teaser .
@ BMW we test and evaluate everything and like everything things do not happen the way you expect them too, So then you have to evaluate your position and either postpone indefinetly , progress further with development , or simply put on the shelf for later.
In which recent interviews just simply sum up the impatience of the media who want it now.

Miracles do not happen over night and in the case of the M3 CSL , ( The technology that would feature in this car , i.e Cylinder cut off for maximum efficiency , carbon fibre underfloor , Active aerodynamics for the front spoiler and rear (similar to what Mitsubishi had on their 3500GT) and something that is very much work in progress - The M3 CSL would be the very first M-car with KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) With a PS output greater than the current M6 .

Patience is what is required that is why you have to look to tomorrow.
Because of this the quasi M-Cars X5/X6 have now been progressed to become the first M turbo charged models. Under proper M badges ,originally they would have been like the 135i as M-Sport.
Without these cars the M badge would not have any new models until the next M5 which puts the M Division in a predicament with no new product in the pipeline.
All avenues taken for the 1er have also not been successful hence why BMW are working on a four cylinder turbo when all tests with the previous M3 engine in various engineering degrees have failed to deliver.

Reading it again somehow manages to tantalize my tastebuds. There is hope
IMO, the soonest we will get to see an M3 CSL will be a year after the E92 F/L is introduced. Its wayy to early right now.

 

[Mr Robert]

Who said the CSL project is dead?

Oh, there may well be a car badged "CSL" (BMW will not miss the opportunity to exploit the brand) but my main concern is that BMW will turn it into something else. Something like a Prius... or more likely a SUV Prius (with "ground breaking driver involvement and very good luggage space"). That is quite far away from what the last CSL was. That car was compared to the Prosche GT3 and the Ferrari Stradale. That is what people is expecting the next time around too... if the new one manages that, Die Grünen over att BMW M may do almost what they want, but dont come draging with some crap about the "CSL does not operate in that market".

BMW is actively moving away from those traditional values that make a great drivers car and trying to invent others ("oh, it has great range"). M-division is no more the Motorsport division but the Green pot division - working only on trucks... Now, that is some contradiction.

 

[Zafiro]

But who wants to wait to year 2011 for a M3 CSL?
I dont, bmw need to relese a real sportcar soon to show that they still know how to build proper sportcars. And a sportcar for the aficionados.

 

[Matt]

I don't think the CSL makes sense from a financial point of view. Cost of design, cost of materials, cost of production and advertising etc etc. However the car is a brand icon - especially from the original CSL 3.0. Its both a sports car and an icon to keep the enthusiast pumped. So in the long run it may be profitable to make this car, to keep the fans happy, and to keep general enthusiasm up.

However, BMW wants to look environmentally conscious. Unlike mercedes BMW doesn't want to display an image of complete disregard from one of the most important issues that faces us today. That issue being the environment and of course efficiency.

So the CSl finds itself threading the fine line of continuing an icon while not portraying an image of "who gives a shit about the environment".

Honestly, there may not be a place for it.

 

[Mr Robert]

So the CSL finds itself threading the fine line of continuing an icon while not portraying an image of "who gives a shit about the environment".

Honestly, there may not be a place for it.

You have a few good points...

I think the CSL is a great opportunity to display how much may be gained by just focusing on weight. I think BMW is making a mistake when not building up its new image from different directions. Everything will be a compromise.

BMW is the #1 brand for sporty everyday cars in the world market. This is mainly due to a fine tradition of creating truly stunning sportscars and for dedication in various racing series. Because of this image BMW does not have to build as comfortable cars as Mercedes do or as versatile cars as Audi do. Brand image. Now BMW wants to change image into the "Green sporty alternative". To me this is transition is best done in steps, most of all to maintain the sporty part of the image.

1. If you want to go all Prius on the BMW brand then do it the Prius way. Make the PAS hybrid only, showcasing the latest fuel conservation technology in stock (KERS, ultra-efficient diesel/turbo engines). I would go for that.

2. Let the CSL show what weight reduction can do - improved mpg / l/km and in the same time show the world that BMW still makes the best driving enthusiasts cars. This car is pure image.

3. Use the trucks for something suitable. Hydrogen X6? Maybe some technology that today is to heavy to use in a real car?

The next step is to let these parts collaborate. You can't leave the sporty side unguarded. Not until the next generation, when it will be held by an electric Lotus, the step will be to big and the audience will not get it.

Well, that is how I call it. I know there are other views...

 

[Centurion]

This is where BMW should learn from Porsche. Porsche develops their trucks and makes money from them and use that cash to make proper enthusiast cars like the CGT, GT3 and GT2. In the end nobody loses. Right now BMW doesn't have a single proper racer in their lineup. Both the 135i and M3 are on the slight edge of being too heavy to be proper BMW enthusiast cars. BMW needs to come up with a model that's not mainstream and hope that will be the CSL.

 

[klier]

Gay is your comment Artist, 100% gay, and in fact i'm not even sure if you know what that word means 'cause you're constantly using it in completely wrong context, but i agree in some other way, that this is really pathetic of them and they're idiots... Complete idiots!

LOL, you guys make me roll my eyes. How much M3 CSL E46 were made? 300? 400?

X5 M and X6 M will sell 10 times as good as the E46 + E92 M3 CSL ever will combined.
Calling them idiots because they do not do what your fanboy mind wants, is what I call idiotic.

I want the CSL too, more than X5 M clearly, but Scott says it will come and BMW has said so many things in the past that they completely changed a year later.

 

[Mr Robert]

How much M3 CSL E46 were made? 300? 400?

The point is that the CSL is an important image builder. If BMW wants to have a sporty image, that is...

 

[jack]

times are changing and bmw is reacting to these changes. porsche is already afraid of whats coming in the next few years, face it the purism we once have known is over. new concepts are needed.

 

[PanterroR]

The point is that the CSL is an important image builder. If BMW wants to have a sporty image, that is...

Correct.

Calling them idiots because they do not do what your fanboy mind wants, is what I call idiotic.

My fanboy mind?? The f you're talking about??? Calling me a fanboy is not what i expected from you 'cause you and many others know i ain't one, i'm just being realistic. Apparently you don't think so.

Blindly defending whatever they do and KNOWING that it's not what BMW used to be is what i call idiotic.

I'm their customer 10 years already, my father 30 years and because of that i'm entitled to voice my opinion about recent (stupid) directions of BMW.

CSL for sure doesn't make sense from financial point of view, but this is not a regular 3 series produced in hundreds of thousand pieces that if you make a CSL version of it, you'll loose $h!tloads of money. It's an exclusive M car, sporty image builder that doesn't need to be and can't be mass produced, but people still want it. Just look how E46 M3 was selling and how CSL was sold - in a blink of an eye! With this current M3 and CSL version of it, you tink it wouldn't sell? Wouldn't make sense? You really think so?

FYI, previous CSL was sold a little bit less than 1400 units.

What's next from BMW? There won't be M5 version of F10!

And also i've read there won't be Z4 M anymore???

Just like dr Dunkel said eusa_clap): M division is going to become Green Pot Division / Green Sporty Alternative, it seems... While all other competitors of them are making high end sport cars and becoming what BMW used to be, a best combination of sport (in the 1st place) and luxury/comfort.

Yes, they're idiots! I don't care that they think 10 years in advance and being environment friendly in the 1st place.

This only seems like BMW is afraid of being sued by the whole world for mass pollution if they make M3 CSL, Z4 M and such.

We focused on environmental developments first when they were focusing on beating BMW .
When you actually realise they have not.

...YET! But will for sure if you continue with this philosophy...

Yes, continue with your "environmental developments" but don't ever forget who you are and where you came from!

 

[Merc1]

Old topic resurfaces again. Interesting.

M

 

[vedjo01]

IMO,CSL version of E92 M3 is a must for BMW..why have they bothered with an E46 M3 CSL in the first place if they gonna kill CSL badge now?I dont get it at all..and I think there will be CSL..sooner or later.I hope so,at least.

 

[Potential]

I really think something fishy is up with BMW. There ever chaging for the worse and leaving there values behind or there building for something big... All these concepts cars and no results... all this talk and no results...

BMW need something big... and I mean big.... and soon

The next M5 had better be epic or ///M will have lost a fan I'm sorry.

BMW. Pick up your ACT!!!! We don't want a PAS. *** is that honestly. Thats NOT BMW...

Make a soprts car already. Get over yourself aswell. We won't follow everyone else into the super sports car segment? Why? Are you too good. Thats BS. Wake up and smell the roses...

The 7 Series is a step in the right direction. Great car. Now continue to blow us away and for god sakes don't go soft on us....

 

[chonkoa]

Tycoon and Klier,

Let us keep this as civil as possible.
One of the things that sets this group apart from others is the mutual respect we constantly show to each other.
We are can disagree and attack the arguments but not the person.

LOL, you guys make me roll my eyes. How much M3 CSL E46 were made? 300? 400?

X5 M and X6 M will sell 10 times as good as the E46 + E92 M3 CSL ever will combined.
Calling them idiots because they do not do what your fanboy mind wants, is what I call idiotic.

I want the CSL too, more than X5 M clearly, but Scott says it will come and BMW has said so many things in the past that they completely changed a year later.

Klier, from the financial point of view you are right. Every company focuses on the optimum way to increase profit margins. This is typically accomplished with a mix products that serve different purposes based on different underlying differentiators.

I believe there is a fine balance between profitability and maintenance of brand's core philosophy. I have come to realise that change is easy, but managing change is the difficult part.
BMW needs to invest heavily on future technology,products that deliver the most in profitability, but they also need to hold on those core values that got them to the top in the first place.

The M3 CSL I will never buy, but I won't have 2 BMW in my garage if not for the sportiness, and the pedigree of the brand. If there is any perception in the mind of the consumer that the brand is losing its core values, there is a very strong possibility that it will affect sales.

Correct.

My fanboy mind?? The f you're talking about??? Calling me a fanboy is not what i expected from you 'cause you and many others know i ain't one, i'm just being realistic. Apparently you don't think so.

Blindly defending whatever they do and KNOWING that it's not what BMW used to be is what i call idiotic.

I'm their customer 10 years already, my father 30 years and because of that i'm entitled to voice my opinion about recent (stupid) directions of BMW.

CSL for sure doesn't make sense from financial point of view, but this is not a regular 3 series produced in hundreds of thousand pieces that if you make a CSL version of it, you'll loose $h!tloads of money. It's an exclusive M car, sporty image builder that doesn't need to be and can't be mass produced, but people still want it. Just look how E46 M3 was selling and how CSL was sold - in a blink of an eye! With this current M3 and CSL version of it, you tink it wouldn't sell? Wouldn't make sense? You really think so?

FYI, previous CSL was sold a little bit less than 1400 units.

What's next from BMW? There won't be M5 version of F10!

And also i've read there won't be Z4 M anymore???

Just like dr Dunkel said eusa_clap): M division is going to become Green Pot Division / Green Sporty Alternative, it seems... While all other competitors of them are making high end sport cars and becoming what BMW used to be, a best combination of sport (in the 1st place) and luxury/comfort.

Yes, they're idiots! I don't care that they think 10 years in advance and being environment friendly in the 1st place.

This only seems like BMW is afraid of being sued by the whole world for mass pollution if they make M3 CSL, Z4 M and such.





...YET! But will for sure if you continue with this philosophy...

Yes, continue with your "environmental developments" but don't ever forget who you are and where you came from!

Tycoon,

I agree that somethings may not make financial sense immediately, but indirectly they do define a brand's identity. I believe the M3 CSL is one of those products that reaffirms BMWs' brand identity. That brand identity is what attracts some first time customers, and keep bringing back the old ones.

Your last sentence captures it all, we need to know where we are going but never lose sight of how we got here. BMW got to be where they are based on their strengths and should under no circumstances lose their identity.

 

[PanterroR]

Thanks, chonkoa.

There was no attack, just striking back!

It's all good.

If there is any perception in the mind of the consumer that the brand is losing its core values, there is a very strong possibility that it will affect sales.

That's what i'm afraid of.

 

[Sunny]

My take on the whole green thing. BMW made a name for itself making sporty cars for the last few decades and now others would kill for that image. BMW seems to be throwing all that away to go green (and hopefully they won't have to and all this will become moot), but maybe and just may be 'green' will become the next big thing and few decades down the line we will probably see others chasing BMW for it's green image.

Me, myself, I don't care as much about the whole green thing as I should - at least for now, so probably BMW will loose me as a fan, but I doubt BMW gives a rat's ass about that in the larger scheme of things.

 

[onehots2k]

My take on the whole green thing. BMW made a name for itself making sporty cars for the last few decades and now others would kill for that image. BMW seems to be throwing all that away to go green (and hopefully they won't have to and all this will become moot), but maybe and just may be 'green' will become the next big thing and few decades down the line we will probably see others chasing BMW for it's green image.

Me, myself, I don't care as much about the whole green thing as I should - at least for now, so probably BMW will loose me as a fan, but I doubt BMW gives a rat's ass about that in the larger scheme of things.

I agree. I never thought I'd say they'd loose me as a fan either. I mean seriously.

 

[SCOTT27]

The original source and You have totally misinterpreted the situation.
Enio gives you the complete facts regarding the need for sustainability.

As I have said before : we want to still be on the road when others are forced off. And that means by having dynamic cars BMW's meeting all legislation and targets but being true to BMW's philosophy.
Car's like the upcoming 1er 4 cylinder Turbo are very much of this philosophy a low emission compact performance car with best in class performance and c02 output . Such cars will become BMW's response to the Prius , look at the 118d which will also become available for the Coupe as it is for the Cabrio.

We aim to prove that nothing is impossible.

 

[EnI]

Putting the whole CSL projects on ice (not dead entirely!) is only a few weeks old - when the board also decided to completely bury the X7 project.

Not only CSL cars but also new Z8 is being reconsidered, and can be put on ice as well.

CS 4dr GT is too deep in development, so this car is definitely coming.

So are the Y5 PAS, X1.
No final decision on Z2 & X4 - both cars have huge market potential with right drive tech. The only question is will such cars be profitable enough with such a tech. So, it all depends on financial calculation.

Instead "tii" line will most probably be launched: an in-house tuner. Kind a semi-M. More tacky, more racing-look. More form over function.
Tii 1er, 3er & most possibly Z4 (and Z2 if launched).

Next 1er will most probably get the sedan version as well. No Touring.
xDrive only on sedan & X1. No xDrive on hatch, coupe & cabrio.

Next 3er is designed to feature a hatch(!) body as well. Not sure this is mentioned to ba a small PAS (eg. Y3), or 4dr coupe ala A5 Sportback (4er), or simply a 3er 5dr hatch (3er FamilySedan).

i-project is to come, so are the electric MINs, MINI SAV, but no MINI coupe! Speedster / targa is under consideration - as a simple MINI Cabrio spin-off.

RR will get the Ghost line (sedan, cabrio, coupe - or CC as a single model).