BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies

[SDNR]

Rob, I first noticed this on the W209 CLK and didn't like. The R230 SL, and now the CL and S as you've put it, but I've just dealt with it because it isn't going to change anytime soon. You're right though this is less attractive than when door, a-pillar and fender all met at the same place with no droop as on the R129 SL:

I can live with it too Marcus (BMW is similar). However I also can't stand the way the bumper sections are joined to the body -- it looks like very little thought was given to integrating them into the overall design. Audi are particular clever at integrating join lines into the overall aesthetic character of their vehicles.

 

[Merc1]

Yep I was going to say that Audi still does it the way MB used to in that regard. The A-pillar, fenders and window line all meet very rigidly.

M

 

[Mr. M]

Rob, I first noticed this on the W209 CLK and didn't like. The R230 SL, and now the CL and S as you've put it, but I've just dealt with it because it isn't going to change anytime soon. You're right though this is less attractive than when door, a-pillar and fender all met at the same place with no droop as on the R129 SL:

It looks so much cleaner and aesthetically pleasing that way to me. It's with no doubt that Mercedes did it with the W221 and its other new cars for looks more than anything else, to make the car seem to be "moving" even though it isn't. It's effective to some extent but Audi does the same without compromising its design, ala A8.

 

[Mr. M]

Thanks for your feedback. Here is a quick PS I have just done.

Now that's the way it should have been.

BTW, I find it interesting that all 3 of us mention about Audi in this discussion.

 

[Merc1]

I thought of Audi because I was riding beside one (an A8L) tonight and I couldn't but help think of how handsome the car still is. I want one, but I can't see myself driving such a big car.

Part of this is that Rob and I both grew up looking at W126, W201, W124, and R129 Mercedes designs and they're still indelibly engrained on our brains as how a Mercedes should look and present itself. A difficult thing to let go of.

M

 

[Mr. M]

Part of this is that Rob and I both grew up looking at W126, W201, W124, and R129 Mercedes designs and they're still indelibly engrained on our brains as how a Mercedes should look and present itself. A difficult thing to let go of.

M

Fair point - the generation of mine finds it difficult to see what's all the fuss about old Benzes.

 

[SDNR]

Good points Marcus. Maybe I am just sentimental.

I do think the current Mercs are good-looking and definitely more dramatic than Audi.

 

[SDNR]

Fair point - the generation of mine finds it difficult to see what's all the fuss about old Benzes.

Still James, I'm sure your generation (Gen Y) views cars like the 300SL Gullwing pretty much the same as most of Marcus and my generation (Gen X).

To me personally, the 300SL, along with the W100 are what Mercedes is all about -- I realize it is different for Marcus, he is a big time Sacco fan . Interestingly, although Sacco worked on the W100, he was critical of aspects of it. He thought it had too much chrome for example (almost vulgar). Although Sacco was an Italian, he really was a Functionalist in the truly German sense (Less is more, Form follows function, etc). During his time at MB, he refined Mercedes design and image to a degree the marque never had before ...or perhaps since.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Rob, the line you don't like is shared by many cars, it's because of the pedestrian security laws.

 

[LaArtist]

this is the original vs robs PS..
and im sorry man im having a hard time to spot the diffrence.. it seems to me that fron widows on your ps are smaller..
or maybe im hallucinating..
i cant spot any more diffrences..

 

[SDNR]

Rob, the line you don't like is shared by many cars, it's because of the pedestrian security laws.

I would greatly appreciate an explanation of how this is so shonguiz ...thanks

 

[SDNR]

this is the original vs robs PS..
and im sorry man im having a hard time to spot the diffrence.. it seems to me that fron widows on your ps are smaller..
or maybe im hallucinating..
i cant spot any more diffrences..

Hi Artist,
you are correct -- note that the bottom edge of the window now is level with the bonnet of the vehicle and the line where the A-pillar meets the body of the vehicle. It is a small detail, but it has caused me some anxiety as to why the designers chose to do it this way. Shonguiz suggests it is to to with safety regulations ...I await his explanation as I am quite perplexed about that.

BTW, I am not completely satisfied with my PS either -- I feel the curve of the windowsill could be better -- but it gives a general impression of my point.

However, Carlton was quite right in his observations about that line, it does have a logical connection with what is going on with the rear of the vehicle -- I guess I will get used to it.

 

[LaArtist]

yeah i get your point now..
it could be one of 2 thiings..
either its something to do with security.. or its a design feature that the MB designers feel is hot..

but then again its a darn small detail that most ppl dont even think about..
let me tell you what most ppl are like..
My friends GF sat in my C class.. previously she had been driven by me on several occasions in my S class..
Guess what she said the first time she sat in the C.. she said..
Nice car this one feels much more roomier than your last car..
Me and my friend wanted to throw her off the car at 100km/h..haha

 

[SDNR]

yeah i get your point now..
it could be one of 2 thiings..
either its something to do with security.. or its a design feature that the MB designers feel is hot..

but then again its a darn small detail that most ppl dont even think about..
let me tell you what most ppl are like..
My friends GF sat in my C class.. previously she had been driven by me on several occasions in my S class..
Guess what she said the first time she sat in the C.. she said..
Nice car this one feels much more roomier than your last car..
Me and my friend wanted to throw her off the car at 100km/h..haha

LOL ....that's women for you


I know what you mean though Artist ...only people obsessed with cars like us really care about all the details.

 

[GTA45E]

Interesting ps there Rob, however like I said earlier raising door design causes a problem, body mass. If your going to change the door panels you would have to redesign the whole profile of the vehicle.


Remember this, The design work of a Mercedes vehicle is to function first, aesthetics next. it`s all there for a reason.

I was also observing the 7er`s whole design in comparison to the S. The cut in the A-pillar is also high
and it connects to the crease in the boot. The doors are still lower. The body doesn`t arch down like the S though

 

[SDNR]

Thanks ^^^ ...and you are, of course, right about that.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Rob i am terribly sorry for this late reply, i completely forgot to answer but here it's: As you know, new Euro laws for pedestrians security are now much more strict and to make a car safer for pedestrians you have to do basicly this:

• Make the front end of the Car very vertical
• Group all the air cooling zones or make one single big zone on the front like Audi with its single frame
• And finally and this is what intersts us, you have to design cars with higher bonnets and then higher A-pillar. But when you do that the proportions of Wing-bonnet become loud and this is why mercedes uses that line you hate, it's here to avoid loud proportions

 

[EnI]

• Group all the air cooling zones or make one single big zone on the front like Audi with its single frame

The is another aspect of this issue: most aerodynamic problems come due open cooling zones - open zone in the front produce turbulent air flow, leading to worse Cd / Cx drag coefficient. Car makers (incl. BMW) are working on solution to better the drag - with closing the grille when cooling is not necessary. So in the case when engine doesn't need extra cooling special lamellas behind grille net / bars close the opening, and so the aerodynamic drag is reduced.

And in such case a single grille, or big grille opening is a huge advantage - since it is easier to implement the lamellas.

Therefore BMW are heading towards huge twin-kidney grille.

 

[EnI]

Check this thread: http://www.germancarforum.com/conce...nterior-design-concepts-designmai-2007-a.html

BMW are showing some very interesting interior design studies in Berlin.


Btw, have you noticed the following terminology has been used when describing the design philosophy behind CS concept:

• 
  [*]"Layering",
  [*]"Reduced design",
  [*]"Tranquility",
  [*]"New Luxury",
  [*]"Coherency",
  [*]"Evolution",
  [*]"Modernity".

 

[SDNR]

Time moves on and I have come to find this detail more and more interesting.