Vs BMW M vs MB AMG (posts moved from other threads)

[Merc1]

And meanwhile, the average M6 costs as much as an S500 Maybach.

LOL at you constantly going back to a very old 8er and a standalone Z8, though. Very cute.

Also funny: S500 Maybach in my country: 160k
Maybach 57S: 540k

SLR McLaren: 630k (in 2007!)
AMG GT: 150k

Yes, a shift in marketing strategy indeed.

Yet it doesn't compete with it and it doesn't have anywhere near the status of a Maybach. Sorry try again.

LOL, yep and you can't come up with squat to refute any of it.

Who cares what it costs in your country or any country. BMW doesn't have anything to compete with it which is why they're trying to come up with something, the 9-Series. Good luck with that considering the 7-Series has had a lukewarm reception.

Yep, that is what I said, now you've finally got it.

M

 

[Merc1]

Huh okay, maybe a I should try posting in your style, see if you find that funnier or more accurate.

<merc1>That's BS! 8-Series and Z8 were a success because they were upmarket for BMW, I don't understand your point. Try again!</merc1>

You couldn't even get that right. A pity.

M

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Wow, asshole mode FTW!!!!

 

[mdartisian]

Who cares what it costs in your country or any country. BMW doesn't have anything to compete with it which is why they're trying to come up with something, the 9-Series. Good luck with that considering the 7-Series has had a lukewarm reception.


M

BMW's 9 series won't be a competitor to today's S class Maybach. Journalist have referenced the Maybach when talking about the 9 series, but unless BMW develops a stretched 7 Series or Audi a stretched A8, the S class Maybach will continue to be a vehicle with no true competitors. MB will have to develop a standalone vehicle that sits above the S class in order for Mercedes Benz to have a true 9 series competitor.

 

[Merc1]

BMW's 9 series won't be a competitor to today's S class Maybach. Journalist have referenced the Maybach when talking about the 9 series, but unless BMW develops a stretched 7 Series or Audi a stretched A8, the S class Maybach will continue to be a vehicle with no true competitors. MB will have to develop a standalone vehicle that sits above the S class in order for Mercedes Benz to have a true 9 series competitor.

It's all really speculation at this point about the 9-Series. I don't see it working, especially since the latest 7er hasn't done all that well. BMW will have to come up with something a whole lot better.

M

 

[mdartisian]

It's all really speculation at this point about the 9-Series. I don't see it working, especially since the latest 7er hasn't done all that well. BMW will have to come up with something a whole lot better.

M

It'll work if it looks the part, and luxury and design will more than likely play a much larger role in the development of these "GKL" BMW's than it did with the 7 series. The problem was, the 7 series didn't move the needle, but BMW design already did with the VFL and probably will with the "GKL's."

 

[Merc1]

It'll work if it looks the part, and luxury and design will more than likely play a much larger role in the development of these "GKL" BMW's than it did with the 7 series. The problem was, the 7 series didn't move the needle, but BMW design already did with the VFL and probably will with the "GKL's."

It should work, but BMW doesn't have the brand cachet beyond the 7-Series IMO.

M

 

[Deleted member 25]

BMW doesn't have the cachet to compete beyond the 7er because it doesn't have a Rolls royce trim but AMG, while having started as a mere aftermarket tuner and then for years only produced overpriced and overpowered whales is every bit as legitimate and prestigious as M. Someone give me the weed they smoke over there.

 

[Merc1]

Now there is an interesting mix, sour grapes and weed.

M

 

[Sovereign]

BMW's 9 series won't be a competitor to today's S class Maybach. Journalist have referenced the Maybach when talking about the 9 series, but unless BMW develops a stretched 7 Series or Audi a stretched A8, the S class Maybach will continue to be a vehicle with no true competitors. MB will have to develop a standalone vehicle that sits above the S class in order for Mercedes Benz to have a true 9 series competitor.

Mercedes already developed a stand alone model with a boutique brand of its own called Maybach 57/62 and it wasn't that successful. However when they co branded Maybach with Mercedes S, the results as it appears are far more successful in the price territory of Bentley and RR. That is the power of the S class brand. BMW IMO does not have that a powerful brand overall to compete in the RR territory and why should they do, they own RR cars. So 9 series maybe a brand building exercise which actually they should do it with their M brand, the S class is already there.

 

[mdartisian]

Mercedes already developed a stand alone model with a boutique brand of its own called Maybach 57/62 and it wasn't that successful. However when they co branded Maybach with Mercedes S, the results as it appears are far more successful in the price territory of Bentley and RR. That is the power of the S class brand. BMW IMO does not have that a powerful brand overall to compete in the RR territory and why should they do, they own RR cars. So 9 series maybe a brand building exercise which actually they should do it with their M brand, the S class is already there.

S class name is not the reason Maybach is successful today. A successful product (S class) is the reason for Maybach's success. If Mercedes was to come out with a standalone Maybach product today, it would be well received unlike the Maybach of the past.

MB has redefined their entire portfolio and it has resulted in an exponential jump in brand equity. This is the reason many think BMW can't compete where Mercedes can but in reality, they share the same market position.

If BMW were to do a "Grand KLasse" leather/wood/OLED marketing extravaganza with over the top symphonies and crazy camera angles, people would be drinking the "BMW luxury" kool aid. That's the reality of it.

 

[Sovereign]

S class name is not the reason Maybach is successful today. A successful product (S class) is the reason for Maybach's success.

Isn't your two statements contradicting each other?

A successful product makes the successful name and S class has been successful for over 5 decades now. The original 600 was more successful than many boutique branded sedans of 1960s, and more pricey too. And that is the irony for the Maybach brand. The current S brand is the result of the remarkable S classes of the past not just only W222.The 57/62 were remarkable products in their class but lack the recognized brand name due to lack of maginificent products in the immediate past.

 

[Matski]

... Maybach 57/62 and it wasn't that successful. However when they co branded Maybach with Mercedes S, the results as it appears are far more successful in the price territory of Bentley and RR.

Yes, when they "co-branded" it, they also halved the price... (in 2008 a 57 was €340,000 (€400,000+ inflation adjusted)... an S class Maybach is between €135,000 and €190,000) so instead of competing with the Phantom, it fits somewhere in the region below Rolls-Royce and above a standard Mercedes.

I only know the UK pricing, but an S600M is £167,000... the Ghost starts at £226,000. Whilst I'm sure you can spend more on an S600M, the same is true of all Rolls-Royce products, so claiming that the current Maybach's are in the same price territory of Rolls-Royce is being somewhat optimistic. That also ignores the Chinese growth drivers for Maybach which include the S400 Maybach, in China (according to google) the S400M starts at 1.43 Million Yuan... the Ghost at 4.19 Million Yuan.. so again, considerably cheaper.

That is the power of the S class brand.

That is the power of being priced significantly lower.

___

As for the 9 series, we don't really have much to go on. If SCOTT is to be believed BMW aren't necessarily targeting it as a Maybach competitor, as he's claimed it will still be a car to drive, rather than be driven in. But I guess we'll see... if it comes to fruition.

 

[Sovereign]

I only know the UK pricing, but an S600M is £167,000... the Ghost starts at £226,000. Whilst I'm sure you can spend more on an S600M, the same is true of all Rolls-Royce products, so claiming that the current Maybach's are in the same price territory of Rolls-Royce is being somewhat optimistic.

I think that a person who can spend 167000 pounds on one car have the financial power to spend 225000 pounds on a rival car if for the person the brand name is worth it. Target market of these two product income-wise IMO is more or less the same.

Anyway the thread is AMG vs M, and good luck to both of them. But as before I would say again the M needs the 1.

 

[Matski]

Target market of these two product income-wise IMO is more or less the same.

.. and yet one can command a massive premium over the other, what does that say about Mercedes' brand cachet in comparison to Rolls-Royce?

Anyway the thread is AMG vs M, and good luck to both of them. But as before I would say again the M needs the 1.

Quite. A new M1 would be something. IMHO however they would have to go about it as Ford have done with GT. Build it to win on the track, then sell a limited homologation model. It would then be worthy of the M1 name.

 

[mdartisian]

Isn't your two statements contradicting each other?

A successful product makes the successful name and S class has been successful for over 5 decades now. The original 600 was more successful than many boutique branded sedans of 1960s, and more pricey too. And that is the irony for the Maybach brand. The current S brand is the result of the remarkable S classes of the past not just only W222.The 57/62 were remarkable products in their class but lack the recognized brand name due to lack of maginificent products in the immediate past.

I thought you would say that, but no they don't.

To give context, I was responding to this:

Mercedes already developed a stand alone model with a boutique brand of its own called Maybach 57/62 and it wasn't that successful. However when they co branded Maybach with Mercedes S, the results as it appears are far more successful in the price territory of Bentley and RR. That is the power of the S class brand.

Which from my understanding, you were placing the defining reason for the success of Maybach on the S class brand name when it really was about the successful execution of a product that was able to cater to a specific buyer more properly than the previous Maybach was able to cater to the Bentley/Rolls Royce customer. S class Maybach would certainly not be able to pull off the 350k price point the previous Maybach had, and the Phantom and Mulsanne enjoy. Not saying the S class brand didn't come into play here, but it wasn't the main reason. This time, it was about the product more so than the S class brand itself.

Edit: @Matski (didn't read your posts) pretty much said what I wanted to say so there you have it.

 

[Merc1]

S class name is not the reason Maybach is successful today. A successful product (S class) is the reason for Maybach's success. If Mercedes was to come out with a standalone Maybach product today, it would be well received unlike the Maybach of the past.

MB has redefined their entire portfolio and it has resulted in an exponential jump in brand equity. This is the reason many think BMW can't compete where Mercedes can but in reality, they share the same market position.

If BMW were to do a "Grand KLasse" leather/wood/OLED marketing extravaganza with over the top symphonies and crazy camera angles, people would be drinking the "BMW luxury" kool aid. That's the reality of it.

Yes they have the same position in the market, but one (MB) is punching above their weight with cars like the S Cabrio and others. That was the original point. BMW and Audi aren't getting those buyers. The 7-Series hasn't even made a dent in the S-Class despite it being just as technically advanced and brand new.

M

 

[domleo999]

Yes they have the same position in the market, but one (MB) is punching above their weight with cars like the S Cabrio and others. That was the original point. BMW and Audi aren't getting those buyers. The 7-Series hasn't even made a dent in the S-Class despite it being just as technically advanced and brand new.

M

You keep referring to the top of the market and MB's dominance so lets talk about the other end for a change...

The 1 series is a mile better than the A class. Both in its design, layout and drive. It may not be as practical but the performance version (M140i) is so far above the lifeless transverse A45

The 2 series coupe and its 4 door competitor the CLA... shall I say anymore?

The X1 > GLA. They claim to be competitoirs, but the GLA is literally a raised A- The X1 is truly a mini SAV.

2er AT seems to be a better sales hit that the B Class

 

[Merc1]

You keep referring to the top of the market and MB's dominance so lets talk about the other end for a change...

The 1 series is a mile better than the A class. Both in its design, layout and drive. It may not be as practical but the performance version (M140i) is so far above the lifeless transverse A45

The 2 series coupe and its 4 door competitor the CLA... shall I say anymore?

The X1 > GLA. They claim to be competitoirs, but the GLA is literally a raised A- The X1 is truly a mini SAV.

2er AT seems to be a better sales hit that the B Class

Yeah you would need to in order to make a case for BMW. Have at it, irrelevant and silly because brand status and cachet at the top end (where the money is spent) doesn't depend on the bottom end. Then again BMW's bread and butter is the 3-Series and that is where they're dominant. Nice (funny, hilarious) try though. Thing is MB has moved away from trying to out sport BMW and the market results speak for themselves. True luxury is where the market is. The FWD cars are bastards IMO. From the C on up Mercedes is as solid as it has ever been.

M

 

[mdartisian]

Yes they have the same position in the market, but one (MB) is punching above their weight with cars like the S Cabrio and others. That was the original point. BMW and Audi aren't getting those buyers. The 7-Series hasn't even made a dent in the S-Class despite it being just as technically advanced and brand new.

M

BMW and Audi aren't getting S class Coupe/Cabrio buyers because they don't have product in that segment yet. If the Prologue was on the market, I'm pretty sure it'd have no problems attracting buyers.

It's pretty much been established that a lackluster design is the cause of the 7 series luke warm reception. But like you said, it's as technologically advanced plus the material quality is on par which proves a lot of this talk of cachet among the German trio has a lot to do with perception.