5 Series (F10/F11/F07/F18) BMW F10 5er - press drives & reviews

[Kowalski]

When will we finally see what the 550i is capable of? Will it be just as fast as the M5 E60?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

When will we finally see what the 550i is capable of? Will it be just as fast as the M5 E60?

Erm....no.

The F10 550i is 100bhp down on the E60 M5 and is 50kg heavier.

No doubt the F10 M5 will be close if not beyond the two tonne mark.

 

[Kowalski]

Erm....no.

The F10 550i is 100bhp down on the E60 M5 and is 50kg heavier.

No doubt the F10 M5 will be close if not beyond the two tonne mark.

Not the most reliable source, but it should suffice:

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And that's exactly why I'm curious to see how fast the 550i will be.

 

[Centurion]

I saw the car today. An absolute stunner, handsome from all angles.

 

[klier]

Betty has been kind of negative towards the F10 M5 since day one, fyi

F10 550i with M sportpack and 450 hp (like the X6 5.0 with M pack) vs E60 M5 will be like E92 335i vs E46 M3.
Count on it. F10 is heavier and has less hp, yet it will still be on par with the E60 M5. That's called progression.

 

[JLBM]

Betty has been kind of negative towards the F10 M5 since day one, fyi

F10 550i with M sportpack and 450 hp (like the X6 5.0 with M pack) vs E60 M5 will be like E92 335i vs E46 M3.
Count on it. F10 is heavier and has less hp, yet it will still be on par with the E60 M5. That's called progression.

Agreed Certainly will when it comes to in-gear acceleration, the 550i has awesome torque and will also not lose power at altitude like the E60 M5. My 335i coupe is as quick as the M3 at 1650m above sea level..

 

[Mr Robert]

In gear times - for people with one gear or a diesel

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Betty has been kind of negative towards the F10 M5 since day one, fyi

Klier, instead of commenting on what I am or am not, why not actually add value to the thread? Why do you have to comment about me being "negative"? The M5 weighing two tonnes is quite within the realms of possibilty.

F10 550i with M sportpack and 450 hp (like the X6 5.0 with M pack) vs E60 M5 will be like E92 335i vs E46 M3.
Count on it. F10 is heavier and has less hp, yet it will still be on par with the E60 M5. That's called progression.

This is conjecture Klier. And irrelevant, as the "performance pack" 550i doesn't exist yet, so what does 450bhp have to do with it?

Agreed Certainly will when it comes to in-gear acceleration, the 550i has awesome torque and will also not lose power at altitude like the E60 M5.

Erm, Martin will correct me if I'm wrong but turbocharged cars, like the M5 is going to be, are more vulnerable to high altitude.

 

[K-A]

Actually, F/I cars, especially Turbo, are far less affected by high altitude. I used to 1/4 race at a 5K altitude track, and remember the Turbo cars always putting up close to their published/normal times, while the N/A cars were wheezing toward nearly .5+ slower than what they're supposed to do.

 

[Sunny]

The drop in air density with altitude effects NA engines more than Turbo/super charged engines. On the other hand, heat effects turbocharged engines more than NA engines.

 

[klier]

Klier, instead of commenting on what I am or am not, why not actually add value to the thread? Why do you have to comment about me being "negative"? The M5 weighing two tonnes is quite within the realms of possibilty.

You're right. But I just missed you the last weeks or so I need my discussion with you

This is conjecture Klier. And irrelevant, as the "performance pack" 550i doesn't exist yet, so what does 450bhp have to do with it?

No, but I don't think a standard 550i will have a chance. So for the sake of conversation, the 550i will need the Performance engine upgrade like the X6 to compete with the M5

Erm, Martin will correct me if I'm wrong but turbocharged cars, like the M5 is going to be, are more vulnerable to high altitude.

I thought so too?

 

[Zafiro]

Noway a 550i is doing 0-200km/h in 14 seconds like M5 E60 does.

 

[JLBM]

Klier, instead of commenting on what I am or am not, why not actually add value to the thread? Why do you have to comment about me being "negative"? The M5 weighing two tonnes is quite within the realms of possibilty.




This is conjecture Klier. And irrelevant, as the "performance pack" 550i doesn't exist yet, so what does 450bhp have to do with it?



Erm, Martin will correct me if I'm wrong but turbocharged cars, like the M5 is going to be, are more vulnerable to high altitude.

Depends what you mean by "vulnerable". They are far less vulnerable to losing power in thin air, but they have to work harder. But the bottom line is turbocharged cars maintain most of their performance at altitude. They lose about 3% to 4% power and torque at my altitude (1,650m) as apposed to 17% to 18% for non-turbo engines. Believe me, my 335i has diced a few M3's and it is neck and neck if we are already rolling. From a standing start the M3 might be a fraction quicker, but not enough to justify the purchase for my needs. I value comfort over sport now anyway, so I will never buy another car with sports suspension anyway.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Depends what you mean by "vulnerable".

Vulnerable in terms of overheating and therefore breaking down.

 

[EMpower]

Just read the Forbes test drive and it says "It feels a bit heavier to drive than Mercedes' E-Class". Hope it does not feel heavier than LCI E60.

Test Drive: BMW 535i xDrive - Forbes.com

 

[Mr Robert]

Of course it will feel heavy as it seems like it has a couple too many driving shafts.

 

[martinbo]

Sorry guys, just late to the discussion...

To clarify - we're talking about different things here as most of you have already cottoned on to. There's a difference between the concepts of loss of power and vulnerability of turbocharged engines at altitude.

Because turbo's create a predetermined amount of inlet boost pressure they lose less power at altitude. However, because of the thinner air, the turbocharger has to "work harder" i.e. run faster in order to achieve the same level of boost at altitude. Introduce a second variable - temperature - and turbocharger overspeeding is a common cause of turbo failure at altitude.

Interestingly, in terms of statistical power output, it's true that turbo's lose only about 3 to 4% at altitude. What is not reflected however is that at higher altitudes, turbo off-boost response (i.e. lag) is more protracted because there's less volumetric throughput in this phase.

 

[Kowalski]

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Sounds great!

 

[Human]

Sorry guys, just late to the discussion...

To clarify - we're talking about different things here as most of you have already cottoned on to. There's a difference between the concepts of loss of power and vulnerability of turbocharged engines at altitude.

Because turbo's create a predetermined amount of inlet boost pressure they lose less power at altitude. However, because of the thinner air, the turbocharger has to "work harder" i.e. run faster in order to achieve the same level of boost at altitude. Introduce a second variable - temperature - and turbocharger overspeeding is a common cause of turbo failure at altitude.

Interestingly, in terms of statistical power output, it's true that turbo's lose only about 3 to 4% at altitude. What is not reflected however is that at higher altitudes, turbo off-boost response (i.e. lag) is more protracted because there's less volumetric throughput in this phase.

Variable vane turbos as used by BMW vary boost pressure etc. thus countering most of the loss at altitude.

Found a good pic and explanation @
http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/forced-induction/variable-vane-turbo-gif-48818.html

 

[martinbo]

^ Human, I don't think that this is really a topic that should be discussed in this thread - which is about the F10 5er's first drives. But because you asked:

1. By variable vane turbos you mean variable geometry turbo's? To the best of my recollection, only Porsche uses variable turbine geometry in petrol powered cars because of the challenges associated with higher exhaust gas temperatures over diesel. BMW doesn't use this technology in petrol powered cars.

2. Variable geometry in turbos - in any event - isn't used to vary boost pressure; it's used to improve turbocharger spooling (response) at lower rpm by directing the exhaust pulse at a different section of the turbine blades. There is no difference on power "loss at altitude" as a result of such systems. The difference is in the rate of response.