BMW Compactive Tourer - spy pics & info

[Gianclaudio]

I don't want to beat the dead horse nor being reiterative, but it strikes me how badly proportionated this BMW Compative is.... small, pointing down nose and big, bloated rear...

Just compare how much better proportioned the B class looks (a car that I don't like that much either) and even more, the C4 Picasso, which is my fav design for a MPV (all this, IMO of course, so no need to give a dislike):

 

[SCOTT27]

E61 says hi

But that one bombed too with a measly 1000 sales plus a couple. And investments were significant with a completely redesigned rear axle and stuff. Pretty sure they lost money on that project…..so now they're going to try a 3er GT M, which will bomb even harder.

As an E61 M5 Touring owner I do miss the fact that they have not officially replaced the M5 Touring , although you can certainly say the M550d Touring is some sort of replacement for the M5 Touring.
If there was an F11 M5 Touring would I be in line for one?
Yes of course.
I know M built one to evaluate a model and it was exactly what I wanted it to be but from a financial pov they could not make the numbers work , its markets would be limited.
I still have that E61 it does many trips when I absolutely need utility and I still enjoy hearing a V10 when at it is optimum. Of course I miss these elements at M, but the blame is not completely at BMWs door.


Like every model BMW look at. M are also evaluating for potential candidacy.
Let me make this clear for those that did not read my previous answer. They need an establishment period in order to determine if demand is there or a market exists. The three proposals are just that, proposals but like any manufacturer you have to keep constantly assessing the market because trends are continuously changing as are segments.
There are segments growing while some are in decline and some are dead.

The compact crossover segment is growing. Demand for compact crossovers is growing and BMW sought out to determine that if there is demand for a BMW badged concept for this segment.
The research was thorough and they did identify a market for the Active Tourer which was initially tested in global clinics. Reaction to the Concept has been excellent , over 100,000 registered interest , it will be interesting to see how many translate into sales.

From the beginning it was clear that Active Tourer had to competitive in this segment.
The usual BMW attributes would not be enough for the car to become commercially viable especially when the focus is primary for flexibility and extra space purpose.
The only way to achieve such a concept was to utilise FWD based architecture , if the Active Tourer was RWD it would not be competitive in that segment because of its lack of usability.
This segment is not about high performance, this customer simply wants an A-B vehicle that they can use for many purposes especially if they participate in many family activities.
We do know the expectations some have because it is a BMW and the engineers have worked on the car to make sure that certain BMW principles have been retained for those that have come from a BMW or those that expect these principles if coming from another manufacturer.
The Active Tourer is developed on new architecture which will provide more financial substance to the MINI brand in the actual core MINI hatch which will not just allow profit from personalisation but a general increase of cost per unit than previously.

One thing that manufacturers are now facing is strong dictation on legislation relating to efficiency and emissions.
Compact vehicles allow targets to be met and other models in the portfolio to be sustained against heavy financial penalties. Other manufacturers might enjoy have to pay heavy fines but BMW certainly do not.
Vehicles like the Active Tourer will allow BMW to meet legislative targets ahead of schedule without dilution of the core portfolio. The Active Tourer will also be available in eDrive format allowing electric mobility in an almost similar drivetrain as the Concept car.

The BMW image will be retained even by cars like the Active Tourer .
Even though they are investing in segments that provide growth that will help maintain the overall BMW strategy to remain independent and not be subject to another manufacturers influence.
There will still be RWD drivetrains under the 3er , 5er ,7er and additional models directed at an enthusiast base.
That is one strategy not changing.

 

[SCOTT27]

Ah.... I see what BMW is doing. They have purposely made their RWD cars crap to drive so then they can honestly say that their FWD cars are just as good.

I don't think current BMWs are crap to drive .
If you are in Europe and you see a typical MPV , some are essentially vans from windows.

Thats rich.


BMW cannot do it because they are not Mercedes. We expect more out of BMW than this sorry excuse for a bimmer.


I'm thinking of happier times....

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I don't think current BMWs are crap to drive .
If you are in Europe and you see a typical MPV , some are essentially vans with extra windows.

Why can't BMW sell 100,000 Active Tourer models?
If BMW can open markets for BMW X models at a time when a BMW SUV was unthinkable, why can't they do the same for the Active Tourer.?
Back in 1999 there was this similar issue but the car was launched and it lived up to its BMW philosophy.
It also brought car-like values to the segment as it was developed to perform on the road.

Active Tourer is also more car like in not just appearance but how it drives, As mentioned before there are three core groups for the Active Tourer. New Customers of course. Existing BMW owners who need extra flexibility but cannot afford an X5 etc. And BMW owners who have a primary BMW and another domestic or import vehicle for family or extra activity purpose. There is a strong projection that Active Tourer customers will also be female.

 

[bimmerjph]

I don't think current BMWs are crap to drive .

Two reasons why I don't really value you opinion on this matter:
1) You work for BMW's PR department so of course you would say that. Its your job to say that.
2) You own a 5GT (assuming this is the usual Scott27), so your judgement and taste when it comes to driving dynamics are definitely questionable.

Why can't BMW sell 100,000 Active Tourer models?
If BMW can open markets for BMW X models at a time when a BMW SUV was unthinkable, why can't they do the same for the Active Tourer.?
Back in 1999 there was this similar issue but the car was launched and it lived up to its BMW philosophy.
It also brought car-like values to the segment as it was developed to perform on the road.

BMW can't do it because they spent millions of dollars and most of the 1990 and early 2000's saying they were better than Daimler because they don't make a FWD minivan. They can't exactly build a cult like following based on a certain set of principles and then expect us to be okay with you lot abandoning them. BMW never advertised the fact that they would never make a SUV (or SAV).

....need I continue?

Active Tourer is also more car like in not just appearance but how it drives.

Newsflash Scott, you can say it looks like a car all you want. However, that doesn't make it true. It looks much more like a Ford Transit Van than it does any BMW I have ever seen before. Actually, a Transit Van looks more interesting. And if it "looking like a car" is any indication on how it drives then.... we'll.... Don't even bother putting a roundel on it, because it doesn't deserve one. Really, the F30 is the only BMW (can't speak for the F20) that is even kind of worthy of the roundel. BMW should be ashamed of the cars they are putting out nowadays. They aren't even BMW's in spirit.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

View attachment 42086

As an E61 M5 Touring owner I do miss the fact that they have not officially replaced the M5 Touring , although you can certainly say the M550d Touring is some sort of replacement for the M5 Touring.
If there was an F11 M5 Touring would I be in line for one?
Yes of course.
I know M built one to evaluate a model and it was exactly what I wanted it to be but from a financial pov they could not make the numbers work , its markets would be limited.
I still have that E61 it does many trips when I absolutely need utility and I still enjoy hearing a V10 when at it is optimum. Of course I miss these elements at M, but the blame is not completely at BMWs door.


Like every model BMW look at. M are also evaluating for potential candidacy.
Let me make this clear for those that did not read my previous answer. They need an establishment period in order to determine if demand is there or a market exists. The three proposals are just that, proposals but like any manufacturer you have to keep constantly assessing the market because trends are continuously changing as are segments.
There are segments growing while some are in decline and some are dead.

The compact crossover segment is growing. Demand for compact crossovers is growing and BMW sought out to determine that if there is demand for a BMW badged concept for this segment.
The research was thorough and they did identify a market for the Active Tourer which was initially tested in global clinics. Reaction to the Concept has been excellent , over 100,000 registered interest , it will be interesting to see how many translate into sales.

From the beginning it was clear that Active Tourer had to competitive in this segment.
The usual BMW attributes would not be enough for the car to become commercially viable especially when the focus is primary for flexibility and extra space purpose.
The only way to achieve such a concept was to utilise FWD based architecture , if the Active Tourer was RWD it would not be competitive in that segment because of its lack of usability.
This segment is not about high performance, this customer simply wants an A-B vehicle that they can use for many purposes especially if they participate in many family activities.
We do know the expectations some have because it is a BMW and the engineers have worked on the car to make sure that certain BMW principles have been retained for those that have come from a BMW or those that expect these principles if coming from another manufacturer.
The Active Tourer is developed on new architecture which will provide more financial substance to the MINI brand in the actual core MINI hatch which will not just allow profit from personalisation but a general increase of cost per unit than previously.

One thing that manufacturers are now facing is strong dictation on legislation relating to efficiency and emissions.
Compact vehicles allow targets to be met and other models in the portfolio to be sustained against heavy financial penalties. Other manufacturers might enjoy have to pay heavy fines but BMW certainly do not.
Vehicles like the Active Tourer will allow BMW to meet legislative targets ahead of schedule without dilution of the core portfolio. The Active Tourer will also be available in eDrive format allowing electric mobility in an almost similar drivetrain as the Concept car.

The BMW image will be retained even by cars like the Active Tourer .
Even though they are investing in segments that provide growth that will help maintain the overall BMW strategy to remain independent and not be subject to another manufacturers influence.
There will still be RWD drivetrains under the 3er , 5er ,7er and additional models directed at an enthusiast base.
That is one strategy not changing.

As much as I don't like this new car, that was a very well written and considered response and I'm not quite as hostile now. Thanks. Long may you be the Scott.

 

[KiwiRob]

As much as I don't like this new car, that was a very well written and considered response and I'm not quite as hostile now. Thanks. Long may you be the Scott.

Finally she gets the point

 

[bmwownage]

It's simple. Just don't take BMW as the sporty brand of the Germans, it's just another German premium manufacturer of the top three. They are simply doing what others are doing - have great sporty models, and then great SUVs, and great MPVs, FWD, AWD and RWD, it's just the same as others. I think we just got to accept the fact that the era of BMW being the sporty brand, offering products that suit their brand better than what the consumer exactly wants (perhaps), is gone.
It's good that we still have nice cars like the 2 series, that is still somewhat unique (thank god the CLA doesn't drive that well or else i won't even be able to say this). Or else, just tell me, what is BMW about? in terms of luxury, MB offers better (traditionally and now); in terms of sportiness and real performane, MB and Audi were no where near some 10 years ago but now they are pretty much equal; in terms of comfort, well apart from M models being softer thus comfier than AMG models, what else? I know with all the technology cars will get more similar and optimized, but shouldn't this be an incentive to make something more cutting edge, more character, instead of just giving up and do what others do? If we say BMW i is "the" direction, it's telling the world BMW does not mean sportiness anymore. It debuted with the i3. i3 is everything but a sporty vehicle. So if we perceive BMW to be a brand with good fuel efficiency, green energy, good quality, reliable, then what they are doing now with the Active Tourer and FWD people movers are perfectly fine.

 

[EnI]

No matter how many tears are shed and how much crying is going on ... 2er Active tourer is here. And LWB 2er Gran Tourer is just around the corner. BMW GTs are here, and so are BMW SACs. So are 3-cyl turbo engines. And so are UKL FWD platform. Get over it.

BMW will still make sporty sedans, coupes etc. M cars are still here. M Performance cars as well - and new ones coming. i8 is here. i3 too. Both great to drive.

There were two alternatives for BMW: either growing (product expansion) or stalling - and be more vulnerable, more rigid, more exposed to crisis, not following the rivals in their growth, more exposed to shrinking revenues & so less R&D money ... slowly dying off or being very much exposed to a threat of ending up under some big automotive concern's umbrella, sharing parts & platforms with economy cars. Very "premium". And being dependable on group's business plans & policies - meaning: in some cases being late with new products.

The problem with BMW is that the BMW brand is all about sportiness - compared to main rivals like MB & Audi & Lexus (not as much against Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati etc - which are perceived as even sportier ). While MB can offer comfort & luxury in every segment possible - even in a van - BMW is limited by perception of sportiness. Meaning: some shapes / vehicle types (like big SUVs, minivans, FWD hatches) are not perceived as the most sporty cars - although the reality suggests even big SUVs can be sporty, so can be FWD hatches & BMW will demonstrate even minivans can be sporty too.

You'll adapt. Sooner or later. I remember the outcry when X5 was launched ... And when 1er was launched. And X3, and X6, and X1, and GTs, and ... Perhaps the only ones with a problem are the ones who have stuck in the past - somewhere in the 80s & 90s - in the era of pre-globalized world. Since then many things have changed ... new markets emerged. New customer preferences ... And companies & brands had to adapt. And the ones who are independent have no other choice than reach beyond their own limits, while the ones being part of some big concern can be more niche & still more exclusive (Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati etc). BMW is "mass premium". Just like MB & Audi are. And they have to lead & follow to stay competitive.

Regarding FWD ... "We don't make FWD cars ... " But they have ... since MINI have become a pert of BMW Group. Btw, some people still have problems with a fact BMW offers AWD on their products! So ...

On the other hand ... with entry-premium going FWD, the cars on RWD will enhance their premium status. So, wanting a RWD BMW will force you to buy at least a 3er. Not 1er, not 2er, not X1. 3er or something even more expensive. So RWD will really be premium. Isn't that something many of you want?

 

[deity]

BMW=Premium
Every product in their lineup should be premium, and therefore, RWD. If I want non-premium I'll get something else, thanks.

 

[EnI]

Character ... People don't care much about character anymore. Today it's much more all about brand image - based on history, tradition, heritage & contemporary advertising & PR stuff.

Sure the content is still very much important - but the emphasis is completely elsewhere than it was in the 80s & even 90s. Consumer preferences have changed! And are still changing - it's a dynamic process. And it's changing into direction of wanting more all-round products that are highly customizable: so a product you pick comes with several characters, and you can select one by a push of a button - depending on situation, mood, etc. Sure the hardware still matters but not as much as before. We are very much in the era of comfort, convenience, leisure, usability, versatility - where even sporty driving HAS TO BE effortless. Therefore contemporary cars are much less raw than the previous models. And that's why crossovers are very popular & all the other chimeras as well (urban SUVs, SACs, 4dr coupes etc).

Yet ... With Audi & MB narrowing the gap on sportiness, there comes the BMW dilemma: customers want all-rounded cars, but with MB & Audi coming closer BMW brand & products appear to lose the edge. So, what to do? Refuse customer's demands for more comfort? OK - but then all those customers are lost to Audi & MB etc in advance. Going more sporty - sure some people won't go to eg. Porsche, but many will abandon the BMW due to lack of comfort.

So, in the end it's all about all-round cars with almost identical characters - yet still some difference but with much thinner edges & margins. Sure BMW will still be sportier & MB will still be more comfortable - especially when it comes to the very core products for the brand, but convergence in character will continue: towards the same middle point. So in the future the differences will be even finer. I guess the biggest difference will still be in the steering feel, gas & brake sensitivity, gearbox settings etc - while chassis will almost always provide comfortable ride (except perhaps in some Sport+ setting etc). Seats will be comfy, all the convenience comfy & safety tech will be on board etc.

Not to mention the lines will be almost blurred when we enter the era of autonomous driving cars.

So the differentiation will be focused much more on design & fit&finish & materials, (graphic) user interface etc. So, much more on looks & appearance rather on content & character. Bangle was talking about that 10+ years ago.

 

[Sunny]

Sure the content is still very much important - but the emphasis is completely elsewhere than it was in the 80s & even 90s. Consumer preferences have changed!

Not really. There was still a huge market for FWD hatches in the 80s and 90s. Only difference is that BMW didn't pander to that market, instead choosing to concentrate on the niche for sporty sedans with RWD.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Finally she gets the point

You have a very strange way of interpreting "not as hostile".

 

[Mr Robert]

So, the just-released 2-series will be the last RWD-based generation?

Oh, well, BMW can build image around other things than sportiness - even if MINI has proven that BMW can build great driving FWD cars. Building vans and busses will, however, force BMW to build BMW cars even more true to core brand image. I mean, a brand is what it makes, not what it made 10 years ago, people adapt. The 235i Racing being a prime example of trying to regain a litte sporty and racing kudos.

 

[Sunny]

Not really. There was still a huge market for FWD hatches in the 80s and 90s. Only difference is that BMW didn't pander to that market, instead choosing to concentrate on the niche for sporty sedans with RWD.

Sorry for quoting myself, but I feel compelled to complete the BMW story (as I see it) -

...these sporty sedans were a big hit with the enthusiasts and they formed a cult following. This also gave BMW a very sporty image. So now every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to be seen in one. This made BMW very successful. But now it got caught in the never ending chase for bigger sales numbers, so they had to start broadening the appeal of their cars and also wade into other niches. Which now includes the fwd hatches for the better or worse (which probably depends on if you are a shareholder or a enthusiast).

 

[Betty Swollocks]

No matter how many tears are shed and how much crying is going on ... 2er Active tourer is here. And LWB 2er Gran Tourer is just around the corner. BMW GTs are here, and so are BMW SACs. So are 3-cyl turbo engines. And so are UKL FWD platform. Get over it.

And it's this kind of arrogance that the decision makers at BMW are displaying.

 

[LaArtist]

Lol.. the days of BMW being sporty are long gone..this is just icing on the cake

 

[Monster]

Alright, I am fine with BMW making their standard cars more comfortable to please the masses, however there is a lack of more extreme sports and performance models, something like the M3 CSL to compete with the Black series cars from MB, and a range of purpose built sports cars will be nice...(something less niche than the i8)

 

[LaArtist]

^dont forget the plus models from the RS division, they don't come along often..but still more often than a CSL/GTS..

 

[EnI]

Not really. There was still a huge market for FWD hatches in the 80s and 90s. Only difference is that BMW didn't pander to that market, instead choosing to concentrate on the niche for sporty sedans with RWD.

Because they DIDN'T HAVE TO. The competition was weak - Audi was just a rebadged VW, Japanese premium brands didn't exist or were just emerging ...

It was a golden era for BMW - and none golden era lasts forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Due to new tech coming & new safety & new emission regulations the R&D costs went up. Niche premium independent companies like BMW, MB / Daimler, Porsche, Aston Martin, Jaguar etc were looking for a partner, a target or a concern to join. That's why BMW went for Rover, and MB merged with Chrysler, and Porsche was partnering with VW (Cayenne), and AM + Jaguar + LR were acquired by Ford etc.

Entry-premium markets were emerging and downsizing was the trend of the era. And a huge sales & revenue generator due to mass appeal. Unfortunately Rover / Chrysler marriage didn't end up well for BMW / MB - since "bride companies" were very much troubled ones. MB went FWD very quickly with A-class, while BMW filled the gap with MINI - which was just to niche & retro brand to be mass appealing. So, having a not-so-profitable FWD platform in portfolio led to the plan to expand the FWD-based product. That's why B-class was born, and then CLA, and GLA, and ... And that's why BMW went FWD as well - to offer family-friendly entry premium products for which demand HAD EVER EXISTED. RWD platform isn't a great one for smaller vehicles - since it's space consuming, resulting in less cabin&boot space or more complicated (and more expensive) solutions.

Do not forget also that (still) the most important motive & goal in business is to MAKE PROFIT (by producing products that sell - the products that are demanded IN CERTAIN ERA). And to generate as much revenues to be able to survive all the costs - especially the R&D ones (and the marketing ones when competition stiffens).

It's like saying some camera / Hi-Fi / mobile makers should have stuck to analog devices or much more focused products - when competition offered more versatile all-round & appealing products that were very much in demand. So - such a company either followed or died off (in some way or another), or reposition itself to become a very niche premium manufacturer - which is not an option for an already large company.

Sure it would be better for BMW AG & Daimler AG to offer FWD cars under different PREMIUM brand with similar appeal the core brands have - but that was not possible. The only real option was to make entry-premium FWD cars with core brand badges. Due to much bigger brand appeal.

Brand management does not operate in vacuum. It has to be dynamic & it has to adapt. Even more when the company is smaller & independent with no "parent company" for background support.

Sure BMW is repositioning itself as a brand. Project i (although birthing a "sub-brand" BMW i) is surely a significant part of this operation. As said: autonomous driving cars are coming ... and BMW better be ready to fit in to survive. As a brand & as a company. Sure Quandts could sell BMW to some larger carmaker ... But they won't. Why would they?

 

[Hofmeister]

I thought I might as well add my opinion, seeing as I'm a dyed-in-the-wool BMW fan.

I don't mind that BMW is making FWD cars. Yes, their message always was that RWD was the best drive format, which was true, until of course they entered the C-segment with the 1 Series. And yes, even then they portrayed that RWD was still the best in terms of driving dynamics, but the 1 Series was heavily compromised in relation to its competitors with regard to interior space. So as long as the core 3-7 Series remain RWD, I'm fine with FWD lower segment vehicles. And to say the FWD cars aren't true BMWs is BS, in my opinion. The amount of money and resources that have undoubtedly went into the UKL platform, considering the amount of BMWs and Minis it will underpin, will ensure that it's a tremendous basis for these FWD.

I fear losing all credibility with this satement but I'm being honest: the thought of all the revenue that these cars will generate makes me very, very happy, even ecstatic, with the proviso that this money is used to write-off BMW i's R&D costs and to expand and enhance their CFRP production, which means the material can be used more liberally in the next-gen. 3-7 Series To be honest I think these FWD cars will be almost first rate in their respective classes in all areas: driving dynamics, interior design and quality, powertrains etc. And when a car is at the top of its respective class, surely it can't be labelled too much of a disgrace for the brand?

No, I think the F01-F13's extraordinary weight is the true sacrilege, their poor driving dynamics and terrible steering feel much more of a disgrace than any FWD car. If the next-gen. isn't dramatically lightened, I give up on BMW.