Or stuck....in the past. But hey, retro is hip. Vinyl record sales are up. Maybe he's actually a trend setter. Which means it should be RWD, wait I'm lost.
BMW Compact Sedan Concept unveiled, previews the 1-Series Sedan
The whole mobile phone analogy doesn't work, as I said before.
The only way it would work is if a particular mobile phone manufacturer had spent MANY years telling the public that THEIR design was superior, and they built their whole brand on it being superior, and by all objective measurements it WAS superior, only for them to abandon that and produce inferior products in order to chase customers who really have little interest in phones.
It's got nothing to do with living in the past or technology improving.
The only way it would work is if a particular mobile phone manufacturer had spent MANY years telling the public that THEIR design was superior, and they built their whole brand on it being superior, and by all objective measurements it WAS superior, only for them to abandon that and produce inferior products in order to chase customers who really have little interest in phones.
It's got nothing to do with living in the past or technology improving.
Yeah my jokes don't make my wife laugh either.
Giannis
Staff member
I certainly agree and basically say the same thing.
I'm neither stuck in the past, nor a trend setter.
I am just a simple man who knows exactly what he wants. I want my phone to make calls and take a hit. I want my BMW sedan to be RWD. If BMW can't make a proper RWD car in my price segment, then I'm not going to compromise and buy a BMW that isn't exactly what a BMW should be, just for the badge. If I am forced by my wallet to settle for an FWD car then I am going to buy one that is good at it - and so did I. I got myself a Volvo S60, which is FWD and offers supreme comfort this side of an E-Class. 10 years later I still don't regret buying it.
Sidenote: I'm a civil engineer and my daily routine involves construction sites and surveying muddy fields and much anomalous terrain. Imagine falling with a smartphone in your pocket, or trying to operate one with very dirty hands. The Nokia 6300i has never failed me, and -believe me- it has been through a lot!
Mars1965
Premium
Thank you for explaining and making a mountain out of a molehill.
We value well constructed discussions on this forum.
Well she is married to you, so you are doing something right.
sanpt7777
Headlight Hero
And that is my problem with FWD BMWs. Alright, make FWD BMWs, but at least keep a RWD entry level BMW for those who care.
It may also sound very snobbish, but I don't want to "share" the brand and being part of it with people who buy the car for the badge. Even if RWD BMWs are still available, the introduction of a FWD one makes me uncomfortable with the brand
This, this, this, and exacty this. That's what I meant when I said I would take the A3 over a FWD 1er, but I would take the RWD 1er over the A3, even if that means paying a premium or going with a less equipped car so I can afford it. Something like RWD bare bones 1er > FWD A3 S Line, but I'll go with the FWD Audi before a FWD BMW.
mdartisian
Tarmac Traveler
So I guess what BMW can do to cater to all of it's customers (enthusiast fans of the brand as well) is to make the 1 series compact and all it's variants FWD and make the 2 series the entry level CLAR (35up) based vehicle, with the 2 series coupe, hatch (replacing the 1 series hatch) and gran coupe (as the RWD entry sedan). That to me takes care of everything and still allows BMW to have a RWD subcompact sedan, hatch, and coupe in their portfolio.
bmwownage
Kraftkurve King
I don't mind if there is an entire line of cars (hatch, cross over, sedan etc. as in scott's earlier diagram) that are FWD or based on UKL, but the 2series, which is another entire line of cars (hatch, gran coupe, coupe, convertible, roadster etc.) are proper BMW RWD cars.
Personally I think this concept looks good, interior is excellent, but almost certain that given BMW's track record, the real deal, even if it's just the 10% difference, will make it a much more bland - and imagine it with those FWD proportions. It's quite sad tbh, there are excellent design elements and if it had RWD proportions, it would be the perfect E46 replacement; and if it had RWD, it would be "the compact sports sedan". From the conversations about how the UKL is needed to stay competitive, to me that sounds like "buy our cheapest line if you don't care" - well i appreciate that, there are many that simply don't care, but at the same time, I hope BMW distinguishes this clearly, by having the 1series as the "for those who don't care and it's FWD", then for those who care, love, passionate and loyal to the brand. The salesperson can simply tell these guys to "ignore the 1series, they are for those who don't care", while when you sell the 1series, they can tell these uninspiring customers "yeah these are the same cars, who cares about FWD and RWD, you can't feel it!". This is better than trying to tell the world, your FWD products are as good as RWD products, and completely losing the heritage.
Things like engine technology, like turbos which BMW never used, is mainstream now but remember they were sure to get rid of turbo lag (pretty much)introduced the first turbo petrol engine, right? Also there is still no V6 till now. So these are values, heritage, that are mechanically superior. I'm sure if V6 somehow develops itself to be a much superior choice in terms of efficiency, output, characteristics etc., BMW would go that route. But there is nothing superior of a FWD vs a RWD. If they can find a solution so that FWD has RWD characteristics, or there are ways which FWD cars handles better / faster / more dynamic than a RWD equivalent, then OK, that's the time when they should let go of this tradition. Right now, physics still hold and RWD is still superior.
I bought the E87, because i liked the brand, and mainly because it was RWD. Rear space might be smaller than a Golf or A3, or people might say its uglier but who cares, i loved how it drove, i loved how it feels when i pressed the gas exiting a turn. a FWD one? nothing unique, there are so many alternatives out there.
Personally I think this concept looks good, interior is excellent, but almost certain that given BMW's track record, the real deal, even if it's just the 10% difference, will make it a much more bland - and imagine it with those FWD proportions. It's quite sad tbh, there are excellent design elements and if it had RWD proportions, it would be the perfect E46 replacement; and if it had RWD, it would be "the compact sports sedan". From the conversations about how the UKL is needed to stay competitive, to me that sounds like "buy our cheapest line if you don't care" - well i appreciate that, there are many that simply don't care, but at the same time, I hope BMW distinguishes this clearly, by having the 1series as the "for those who don't care and it's FWD", then for those who care, love, passionate and loyal to the brand. The salesperson can simply tell these guys to "ignore the 1series, they are for those who don't care", while when you sell the 1series, they can tell these uninspiring customers "yeah these are the same cars, who cares about FWD and RWD, you can't feel it!". This is better than trying to tell the world, your FWD products are as good as RWD products, and completely losing the heritage.
Things like engine technology, like turbos which BMW never used, is mainstream now but remember they were sure to get rid of turbo lag (pretty much)introduced the first turbo petrol engine, right? Also there is still no V6 till now. So these are values, heritage, that are mechanically superior. I'm sure if V6 somehow develops itself to be a much superior choice in terms of efficiency, output, characteristics etc., BMW would go that route. But there is nothing superior of a FWD vs a RWD. If they can find a solution so that FWD has RWD characteristics, or there are ways which FWD cars handles better / faster / more dynamic than a RWD equivalent, then OK, that's the time when they should let go of this tradition. Right now, physics still hold and RWD is still superior.
I bought the E87, because i liked the brand, and mainly because it was RWD. Rear space might be smaller than a Golf or A3, or people might say its uglier but who cares, i loved how it drove, i loved how it feels when i pressed the gas exiting a turn. a FWD one? nothing unique, there are so many alternatives out there.
sanpt7777
Headlight Hero
I'm also puzzled by this talk about staying competitive. BMW has managed to sell RWD cars for decades, and FWD competitors have been around all that time, so what is the difference now?
I really find this weird, I think the "most people don't know their BMW is RWD" argument is null, most people don't know their cars are FWD either, but even a non enthusiast will tell the difference from the driving experience.
I really find this weird, I think the "most people don't know their BMW is RWD" argument is null, most people don't know their cars are FWD either, but even a non enthusiast will tell the difference from the driving experience.
SCOTT27
Lap Time Luminary
The compact segment is highly competitive and you need to be competitive in every specific area. RWD in the compact class does have its compromises which unfortunately RWD will just not satisfy the customer that wants flexibility and versatility, limits that are found within RWD packaging.
RWD can work on Coupes and Cabrios because they are not restricted by the demands of extra legroom in the rear and increased boot space. They appeal to an entire demographic. But cars like the 1er are limited in regards to core competition.
1er Sub-Compact. 1er Sub-comp. 5dr. X-Cite Crossover.
Z1 (hypothetical)
X1. X1 Li X2
2er Sporthatch 3Dr. 2er Sporthatch 5Dr. 2er Sedan (China)
2er Active Tourer. 2er Gran Tourer. 2er Gran Turismo
2er Coupe. 2er Cabrio 2er Gran Coupe
2er Touring/New Segment (Hypothetical)
M2 Coupe. M2 Cabrio M2 Gran Coupe
M2 Further Performance Concept.
.
We can now agree to announce the original 1er hatch makes way for a further addition to become the 2er Sporthatch. And RWD is retained for the 2er Coupe,Cabrio and Gran Coupe and subsequent M2 models.
A new 1er is considered as a city hatch and smaller cross-over X-Cite.
Alongside the smaller MINI concept allowing the current MINI to extend into the C-Segment.
The 9er Is officially green-lighted. And will have a formal announcement soon.
mdartisian
Tarmac Traveler
Good news. The 1er and 2er could serve the best of both worlds for what BMW was trying to accomplish with UKL and what they needed to accomplish with a CLAR compact.
A 9 series, hmm... something tells me this has to do with having an electric luxury flagship all these car companies keep talking about developing to justify the cost of tech.
mdartisian
Tarmac Traveler
Bummer about no RWD hatches but predictable. Are any of the BMW hatches going to make it to the US?
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BMW
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational
manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced
from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
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