BMW Compact Sedan Concept unveiled, previews the 1-Series Sedan

[KiwiRob]

I see what you mean, but over here we call a 318i a THREE eighteen, and a 530i a FIVE thirty. It's perfection really.

But a 318 is 2.0, whereas in the old days when BMW's naming convention meant what it said on the box it was a 1.8.

BTW you need to define over here, it varies a lot, many people including myself would say 3 1 8, or 3 2 5, and would also say 3 30, same as I would say 5 2 8 and 5 30, or 7 30 and 7 3 5. Some numbers sound better when spoken individually and others sould better combined.

 

[klier]

Please keep it there, so

But a 318 is 2.0, whereas in the old days when BMW's naming convention meant what it said on the box it was a 1.8.

BTW you need to define over here, it varies a lot, many people including myself would say 3 1 8, or 3 2 5, and would also say 3 30, same as I would say 5 2 8 and 5 30, or 7 30 and 7 3 5. Some numbers sound better when spoken individually and others sould better combined.

Very true, nothing to add here. Some friends of mine say 3-3-5, but I always say (and most people really) 3-35.

 

[Centurion]

Does BMW has already informations about if this sedan has potential on the markets outside of China especially Europe and North America?

The sales figures for CLC is all the evidence BMW needs. The 3-series sedan is no longer a small entry level sedan. It's an executive car with a sizable foot print.

A smaller sedan is perfect for those who want a practical car but with smarter looks than a hatchback.

 

[klier]

We all badly want a small BMW sedan, E30, E36 or E46 like. Nobody however wants a small Mini sedan with BMW looks.

 

[Giannis]

So many? I can think of only one, which is the FWD part. Everything else sadly looks nice, and it also looks like the have really tried to make something nice of it. But they can't with FWD proportions.

The FWD part has an impact in both looks and driving dynamics. On a secondary level the 1er sedan arriving in FWD means that there's no hope for the 1er hatch to stay RWD.

See? Many levels.

 

[domleo999]

@klier
I don't think BMW want to cater for customers like us in those sectors anymore - these sort of products cater for new audiences who don't even know about drivetrains and just want the roundel, which isn't what this brand used to stand for. Some cars under the UKL make sense (2er vans and x1/x2). 1ers and 2ers, however are TRUE BMW's, small but dynamic packages, entry level BMW's not minis. Many customers are willing to compromise space and practically to drive a real BMW. Reviews always conclude with the 1er being the drivers car of the sector, but if it becomes FWD what competition would it ever win?

 

[klier]

The FWD part has an impact in both looks and driving dynamics. On a secondary level the 1er sedan arriving in FWD means that there's no hope for the 1er hatch to stay RWD.

See? Many levels.

Hehe, okok. Let's just hope the 2er coupe stays RWD, and that they also make a 2er RWD hatch next time around.
That way, we can just forget about the whole 1er.

@klier Reviews always conclude with the 1er being the drivers car of the sector, but if it becomes FWD what competition would it ever win?

Nothing to win, and everything to lose. VW makes like 5 billion Golfs every year with FWD. There simply is no way to even try to compete with that.

 

[Rolf]

Except for the FWD front overhang and the backlights, which at some angles have an Audi look to them this sedan looks great. We are all dreading this swap to FWD. BMW what are you doing? We want our small RWD cars back please.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Would be a nice idea though! And what about this RWD 2er sporthatch, Betty? Where is this info coming from (I so hope it's true, and I believe I 've read similar stuff in the recent past)?

I can't remember now, but it must have been a valid source when I made that post. Seems a reasonable possibility.

 

[domleo999]

Remember this advert, BMW?

 

[Matski]

I don't think BMW want to cater for customers like us in those sectors anymore - these sort of products cater for new audiences who don't even know about drivetrains and just want the roundel,

Do you think the 1-er was selling 100,000+ units a year because it was RWD? I'd guess a significant number of people were already buying it simply because it was the most affordable BMW.. so in that respect, I think the majority of the audience hasn't changed at all.

Reviews always conclude with the 1er being the drivers car of the sector, but if it becomes FWD what competition would it ever win?

It was often the least practical too, so whilst it might loose points for handling, it will likely gain in other areas... and I say might because all FWD do not handle the same, some are better than others, and one would hope that BMW are still able to produce one of the better handling cars in the FWD segment - as they've shown they can do with the MINI.

VW makes like 5 billion Golfs every year with FWD. There simply is no way to even try to compete with that.

They can compete with Mercedes and Audi though, both of who make a tidy business selling compact FWD cars.

I can't remember now, but it must have been a valid source when I made that post. Seems a reasonable possibility.

Perhaps one of these...

BMW Compact Sedan Concept unveiled, previews the 1-Series Sedan

BMW 1-Series Sedan

 

[domleo999]

They can compete with Mercedes and Audi though, both of who make a tidy business selling compact FWD cars.

Audi have been selling FWD cars for decades, and FWD Mercedes don't really effect the brand (B Class and A class mpvs have been on sale for some time), as both never had a strong RWD image like BMW. I just think it looses one of its main competitive factor which none of its rivals have.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Thanks @Matski

Interesting quote in one of those links from Scott, posted on 8th September 2014...

This the 1er Sedan and when I saw it today
First thing immediately is you get E46 Goose-pimples. It is that similar in profile.

Really? You saw this 1er Sedan and got goose-pimples? Really?

But a 318 is 2.0, whereas in the old days when BMW's naming convention meant what it said on the box it was a 1.8.

BTW you need to define over here, it varies a lot, many people including myself would say 3 1 8, or 3 2 5, and would also say 3 30, same as I would say 5 2 8 and 5 30, or 7 30 and 7 3 5. Some numbers sound better when spoken individually and others sould better combined.

In a conversation the other day with my knowledgeable girlfriend (when it comes to cars) about the M2's engine capacity, she expressed surprise that it had a smaller engine than my M135i. Even she didn't know that the numbers on the back of a BMW no longer mean the engine size, and she presumed my car had a 3.5 litre engine.

Very true, nothing to add here. Some friends of mine say 3-3-5, but I always say (and most people really) 3-35.

For me, if it ends with a zero then it's "3-20, 3-30 etc", but if it doesn't then it's "1-1-6, 4-3-5, etc". No idea why it's that way.

Interesting though that everybody I know who refers to the M135i refuse to call it with the "M" at the beginning. Even a BMW dealer friend of mine. It's always "135i". I agree that the M badge is being milked and I would prefer it to be just "135i", but to be stubborn and never use the "M" seems a bit silly. That's its name after all.

 

[Matski]

I just think it looses one of its main competitive factor which none of its rivals have.

Well, another way of looking at it, if BMW can only make better cars than the competition if they use RWD, then it doesn't say so much for the rest of the car. I like RWD, and it's definately a USP for the 1-er, but even BMW's own stats showed that it's not going to have been the reason the majority of people bought the car.

For me, if they release this, and it's worse to drive than a CLA or an A3 sedan, it's failing at being a BMW. But, if it's at least as good, or preferably, better... then it's a win, even if it is FWD.

 

[klier]

For me, if they release this, and it's worse to drive than a CLA or an A3 sedan, it's failing at being a BMW. But, if it's at least as good, or preferably, better... then it's a win, even if it is FWD.

But better than CLA or A3 doesn't mean much. These cars give no joy, even though they're really good.

 

[KiwiRob]

Please keep it there, so


Very true, nothing to add here. Some friends of mine say 3-3-5, but I always say (and most people really) 3-35.

I think that comes down to if you're a native English speaker or not.

 

[SCOTT27]

I think that comes down to if you're a native English speaker or not.

In America they sometimes go by three-hundred and thirty-five i. or Seven-hundred and fifty i.

 

[maragulon]

 

[KiwiRob]

@klier
I don't think BMW want to cater for customers like us in those sectors anymore - these sort of products cater for new audiences who don't even know about drivetrains and just want the roundel, which isn't what this brand used to stand for. Some cars under the UKL make sense (2er vans and x1/x2). 1ers and 2ers, however are TRUE BMW's, small but dynamic packages, entry level BMW's not minis. Many customers are willing to compromise space and practically to drive a real BMW. Reviews always conclude with the 1er being the drivers car of the sector, but if it becomes FWD what competition would it ever win?

This is exactly what I have said many times on this forum and been thrown under the bus for saying it. Even BMW's own research has shown that most 1 series drivers didn't know the car was RWD, keeping a few enthusiasts happy isn't putting money on the bottom line, twin them with MINI, get bigger economies of scale and watch the profits roll in, keeps the Quandt in superyachts private jets and handbags

 

[domleo999]

This is exactly what I have said many times on this forum and been

I'm glad someone agrees, and referring to that research by bmw about 1 series owners, I doubt it had anything to do with the dynamics of the car, but rather the understanding of RWD. I guess it's really about pleasing the shareholders nowadays. Whenever bmw is mentioned in an argument I always defend with RWD DYNAMICS, but with that gone I guess my only defensive is...erm... I drive?