5 Series (G30) BMW 5 Series (G30/31/32) Spy Pics & Info Discussion

[Mick Briesgau]

Sorry to bother you with the G30 but this is what I just heard from a collegue: 5er GT indeed becomes 6er GT, significantly more dynamic in styling and only slightly shorter than SWB G11. 6er GC cancelled, is to be 'replaced' by the Dreamliner, prob. 8er.
Might indeed make sense based on the numbers and customer data I know.

This matches with the info written in the latest issue of Auto Motor und Sport (July 21th issue).

 

[Busty]

This matches with the info written in the latest issue of Auto Motor und Sport (July 21th issue).

Oh, sorry for redundance then :|

 

[SKY]

Great to have more info about how things are gonna be. What 6er models would be kept? Also, above the 7er we would have the 9er, 8er or both?

@Busty

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Oh, sorry for redundance then :|

No at all, Busty. I don't think that many members have read the german article. So no redundance afaic.

 

[maragulon]

Great to have more info about how things are gonna be. What 6er models would be kept?
@Busty

I wrote about it. 6er will be in two variants: coupe and convertible.

 

[Matski]

Sorry to bother you with the G30 but this is what I just heard from a collegue: 5er GT indeed becomes 6er GT, significantly more dynamic in styling and only slightly shorter than SWB G11. 6er GC cancelled, is to be 'replaced' by the Dreamliner, prob. 8er.
Might indeed make sense based on the numbers and customer data I know.

Except it isn't significantly more dynamic in styling. It's already been spotted testing and it appears to have the G30's face, and it still looks taller than the Saloon.

I also doubt the 6GC (being the most popular version of the current 6-er line-up) will be jeopardised in favour of a class to sit above the 7-er. I don't have data for everywhere, but in the UK the most popular 6GC was the 640d, this is cheaper than the equivalent 7-er, so unless they're going to make an 840d cheaper than the 730d starts, they're going to reduce their customer base.

Admittedly they may sacrifice some volume in order to get fewer sales but at a more profitable price (M850d for example), and drop the 6GC. But, that still wouldn't explain the need to change the 5GT moniker to 6GT. They could simply have left 6-er as a coupe and convertible.

There's a another piece to this jigsaw that I don't think we've seen yet.

Either that, or BMW have made the second indefensibly bone-f***in-headed decision with their naming strategy in a decade.

 

[LaArtist]

been on vacation one week..
shit ain't out yet?

easily the most going around in a circle beating a dead horse thread on the forum.

And they are dropping the 6er GC? the only BMW that looks good..haha
Now you will all wish and dream for an 8er instead?
What if they drop it, and there is no replacement?

 

[Busty]

Great to have more info about how things are gonna be. What 6er models would be kept? Also, above the 7er we would have the 9er, 8er or both?

@Busty

Unfortunately, infos on the top-model are very scarce. As it seems, that is true not only for outsiders but also on the inside, the associated projects and strategy are kept in small circles.
What I overheard is the following: X7 with a possible X8 derivate, and an 8 series GC. I saw some renderings that, however, did not nurture my hope that the VFL (and its fantastic flank surfaces) becomes reality in these models. Nonetheless, I hope that those were from a conceptual phase.

Except it isn't significantly more dynamic in styling. It's already been spotted testing and it appears to have the G30's face, and it still looks taller than the Saloon.

I also doubt the 6GC (being the most popular version of the current 6-er line-up) will be jeopardised in favour of a class to sit above the 7-er. I don't have data for everywhere, but in the UK the most popular 6GC was the 640d, this is cheaper than the equivalent 7-er, so unless they're going to make an 840d cheaper than the 730d starts, they're going to reduce their customer base.

Admittedly they may sacrifice some volume in order to get fewer sales but at a more profitable price (M850d for example), and drop the 6GC. But, that still wouldn't explain the need to change the 5GT moniker to 6GT. They could simply have left 6-er as a coupe and convertible.

There's a another piece to this jigsaw that I don't think we've seen yet.

Either that, or BMW have made the second indefensibly bone-f***in-headed decision with their naming strategy in a decade.

First of all, I also do not understand the naming strategy at BMW (mostly with the 2er). What I know is that naming is a much more complicated task for the OEMs than I ever would have imagined it before I became part of some such projects.

Second, your analysis is pretty spot on, I guess. What I can add is that 5er GT as well as 6GC customers have a certain overlap with 7er customers in age, socio-economic variables, etc. They are willing to pay more if they get more. So your assumption of a changed business case (smaller volume, higher margin) seems very likely to me. Also, the new GT will look very different from the current one. Still higher than the limo and touring but with a touch of X6 in it. Particularly the Hofmeister kink comes in a new shape. What I cannot disentangle is the logic behind making the 6er a semi-sportscar but giving two fat pseudosports pigs the same name.
However, following up on that, the logical violation really occurred with the establishment of the X6 imo.

 

[SCOTT27]

When I first heard of the decision I though they were as mad as Merkel. But there is gaps that will be occupied in the right time. Two are new niche models.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Unfortunately, infos on the top-model are very scarce.

Don't worry. You do provide valuable info to the forum, and obviously have real inside info.

 

[Matski]

In fact, the more I think about this, neither the current 5GT or 6GC codes were in the same range as their saloon/coupe counterparts. The 5GT was the the F07 (not F1x) and the 6GC was F06 (not F14). This, I assume is because they were based off different platforms to their other series brethren, more specifically, they were based off the F01, hence they took the next available F0x number*

So, perhaps, the next 6 GC is going to be 5 series based (along with the next 5GT) instead of 7-er based, and the numbering system for the G codes just hasn't filtered through yet, so they both get seen as G32 for now.

That's my desperate take on it anyway.

*I know F05 wasn't used but IMHO that was supposed to be the product Concept CS that was seen as a 7-er mule one-time

When I first heard of the decision I though they were as mad as Merkel. But there is gaps that will be occupied in the right time. Two are new niche models.

Can you clarify exactly what decision you're referring to? Cancelling the Gran Coupe, or branding the 5GT as a 6 series?.. can you also clarify if when you say "new" niche models, you mean existing models but given a new number so you can launch them as "the first ever BMW xyz-Series".

One new model would be a 9-er. You've suggested before that the 9-er would be a Gran Coupe, but clearly above the 7 series, and only small production. This would be a new niche, but leaves a gap where the 6 GranCoupe was.

If the 5GT does become the 6GT, then it might make sense of the suggestion the 3GT and 4GC would be merged as well. Using this nomenclature, I guess it'll be the GT model that's kept, but named the 4GT instead.... this would mean, no "4 door coupe" in the line up for less money than an as yet unconfirmed "8" series. Which doesn't make sense.. are Audi dropping the A7/S7, and Mercedes the CLS?

.. unless the 6 series is becoming more of a pure sportscar (which has been indicated), which would make the 6GC seem a little weird (and the 6GT even ****ing more stupid) and open up the way for an 8-er Big-ass Coupe and Gran Coupe... though these would need to be priced very closely to the 7-er to not miss out on the old 6-ers market.

.. ooorrr Whole new model for BMW, the 5-series Coupe!!

Anyway, I'm rambling now, this has broken my brain! And the way I see it, if any of these rumours prove to be true no amount marketing BS is going to make sense of it. My old 635CSi is spinning in it's grave!

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Whole new model for BMW, the 5-series Coupe!!

Now that would be something! Much better option than the, also 5er based, 6er Coupe, which always has been a bit overpriced imo. A real E-Klasse Coupe competitor... I would love it.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

mad as Merkel

This quote makes you sympathetic

 

[SCOTT27]

In fact, the more I think about this, neither the current 5GT or 6GC codes were in the same range as their saloon/coupe counterparts. The 5GT was the the F07 (not F1x) and the 6GC was F06 (not F14). This, I assume is because they were based off different platforms to their other series brethren, more specifically, they were based off the F01, hence they took the next available F0x number*

The 5er GT and 6er Gran Coupe actually used the slightly longer F11 chassis.
Everything had to be accommodated due to the economic crisis. Had the CS made production it would be heading for replacement. 6er Gran Coupe was not intended but developed out of necessity.

So, perhaps, the next 6 GC is going to be 5 series based (along with the next 5GT) instead of 7-er based, and the numbering system for the G codes just hasn't filtered through yet, so they both get seen as G32 for now.

The Gran Turismo is based on the CLAR Architecture but is more 7er orientated especially in exterior details and the interior which the ends the current 5er GT with the finesse of the new 7er.

That's my desperate take on it anyway.

*I know F05 wasn't used but IMHO that was supposed to be the product Concept CS that was seen as a 7-er mule one-time

That is right there was 7er based mules of the CS.


Can you clarify exactly what decision you're referring to? Cancelling the Gran Coupe, or branding the 5GT as a 6 series?.. can you also clarify if when you say "new" niche models, you mean existing models but given a new number so you can launch them as "the first ever BMW xyz-Series".

It was confusing but its an attempt to streamline and increase profitability over each model and its relative cycle.
The 6er GT is at the luxury end of the spectrum, whereas the Coupe and Cabrio are so far removed from that model.
They will still be 2+2 but the proportions are more discreet.

One new model would be a 9-er. You've suggested before that the 9-er would be a Gran Coupe, but clearly above the 7 series, and only small production. This would be a new niche, but leaves a gap where the 6 GranCoupe was.

The 9er has an advantage because of its size and wheelbase it can determine a low roofline as well as a shallow glasshouse over say the 7er. Therefore it can look dynamic as well as stately if you compare M Sport 7er against Excellence 7er it is like looking at two different vehicles that are very much distinctive.

If the 5GT does become the 6GT, then it might make sense of the suggestion the 3GT and 4GC would be merged as well. Using this nomenclature, I guess it'll be the GT model that's kept, but named the 4GT instead.... this would mean, no "4 door coupe" in the line up for less money than an as yet unconfirmed "8" series. Which doesn't make sense.. are Audi dropping the A7/S7, and Mercedes the CLS?

That is a strong possibility to merge two concepts into one. With the CLA I would have considered Mercedes-Benz to introduce CLC and CLE with CLS as the flagship. It is highly logical to determine these models that way.

.. unless the 6 series is becoming more of a pure sportscar (which has been indicated), which would make the 6GC seem a little weird (and the 6GT even ****ing more stupid) and open up the way for an 8-er Big-ass Coupe and Gran Coupe... though these would need to be priced very closely to the 7-er to not miss out on the old 6-ers market.

One idea being looked at is a five dr Coupe which hypothetically could be christened the Z6 a first of a kind niche model for BMW. With a similar model for the 4er. The second is sportier Tourer vehicle a sort of re-imagining of the previous RKK programme before the car became the 5er Gran Turismo.

.. ooorrr Whole new model for BMW, the 5-series Coupe!!

Anyway, I'm rambling now, this has broken my brain! And the way I see it, if any of these rumours prove to be true no amount marketing BS is going to make sense of it. My old 635CSi is spinning in it's grave!

 

[domleo999]

So basically BMW are scrapping the idea of:

Even number = sporty /coupe like (excluding the mini vans)
Odd numbers = practical

I hope this is all speculation

 

[Matski]

@SCOTT27 thanks for the response. I'm not sure I'm any the wiser but thanks anyway!

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Unfortunately, infos on the top-model are very scarce. As it seems, that is true not only for outsiders but also on the inside, the associated projects and strategy are kept in small circles.
What I overheard is the following: X7 with a possible X8 derivate, and an 8 series GC. I saw some renderings that, however, did not nurture my hope that the VFL (and its fantastic flank surfaces) becomes reality in these models. Nonetheless, I hope that those were from a conceptual phase.



First of all, I also do not understand the naming strategy at BMW (mostly with the 2er). What I know is that naming is a much more complicated task for the OEMs than I ever would have imagined it before I became part of some such projects.

Second, your analysis is pretty spot on, I guess. What I can add is that 5er GT as well as 6GC customers have a certain overlap with 7er customers in age, socio-economic variables, etc. They are willing to pay more if they get more. So your assumption of a changed business case (smaller volume, higher margin) seems very likely to me. Also, the new GT will look very different from the current one. Still higher than the limo and touring but with a touch of X6 in it. Particularly the Hofmeister kink comes in a new shape. What I cannot disentangle is the logic behind making the 6er a semi-sportscar but giving two fat pseudosports pigs the same name.
However, following up on that, the logical violation really occurred with the establishment of the X6 imo.

That makes me a sad bear. The VFL has been one of my favorite concept cars in the last 5 or 10 years. Not only did it look spectacular, it looked like it was a few steps away from becoming reality and it also injected some creativity in BMW's design without abandoning its "BMW-ness."

BTW, Busty, we always look forward to your posts and insight.

 

[SKY]

If the 5er GT mules we have been seeing are indeed 6er GTs, is that the next 6er front end?

 

[klier]

If the 5er GT mules we have been seeing are indeed 6er GTs, is that the next 6er front end?

Could be, but then again, a 5er and 5er GT look very different from the front......

I am not buying that 6er GT thing yet, btw.

 

[domleo999]

Everybody referred to the recent spy shots of the 5er GT as a 5er GT.

That car we are seeing is not a 6 at all - the 6 series of vehicles hasn't even begun testing

If a vehicle was changing its series number, we would know about it in advance, like the 3er coupe to 4er coupe.