Vs AutoBild: BMW 320d vs Mercedes C220CDI

[KokkenTor]

From todays issue of AutoBild:

Model ............... 320d ........ C220CDI
Karosseri ............ 161 .......... 165
Engine/chassis .... 166 ........... 169
Costs ................ 152 ........... 146
Total ................. 479 .......... 480

So, the C-class wins by 1 point

 

[chonkoa]

No surprises from Autobild

 

[Zafiro]

So far its 11 to 5 for MB in Autobild comparisons.

 

[LaArtist]

has the C class lost any comparison in ANY mag yet to he bimmer or audi?

 

[EnI]

Mind that in September new engine in 320d is coming: with 177 PS / 350Nm, Brake Energy Regeneration, Automatic Stop & Start function, better performance & fuel consumption etc.

I'm eager to see a comparison test between new A4 1.9 TDI, new C 220CDI & updated 320d sometimes in October / November.

That will be a though fight.

 

[Yperion]

If we take costs out it's a clear victory for C class. Of course that's understandable , both Audi and Mercedes have done their homework. Competition will be more difficult that ever for 3 series.

And if i believe the opinion of someone who drove the A5 in Ingolstadt , the ride and handling are better than E92 , so i expect the same for new A4.

 

[Zafiro]

If we take costs out it's a clear victory for C class. Of course that's understandable , both Audi and Mercedes have done their homework. Competition will be more difficult that ever for 3 series.

then we should take out the category Warranties too and the victory isnt clear anymore
its common that the newest model win comparisons, expect the next generation A4 to beat both 3er and C-class and when next generation 3er comes than that car will beat the competition and so on, its a neverending battle.

 

[EnI]

If we take costs out it's a clear victory for C class. Of course that's understandable , both Audi and Mercedes have done their homework. Competition will be more difficult that ever for 3 series.

And if i believe the opinion of someone who drove the A5 in Ingolstadt , the ride and handling are better than E92 , so i expect the same for new A4.

I guess it was an Audi person (or fan) who drove A5, right?

If you think Audi is going to overtake BMW in driver involvement feeling you are completely wrong.
And BMW are all about that: driver involvement. This is what BMW cars promise & deliver - even the E65/6 7er.

Yet I'm sure Audi will offer very refined car with refined ride & handling. But the driver involvement trophy still goes to BMW. And after DPC (kind a modern LSD) will find way in most BMW models soon the gap will be even larger.

There is still the basic difference between MB / Audi / BMW present - and lately all three are enhancing their advantages even more:

MB: pure luxury & comfort with a touch of sportiness
BMW: pure sportiness & driver involvement with a touch of luxury & comfort
Audi: combining both worlds - sportiness, comfort & luxury (Jack of all trades, master of none)

So, a customer pick what fits him / her best. Some want pure comfort, for some driver involvement & sportiness are important, some just want to have a car which delivers a bit of both worlds.

 

[Zafiro]

Handling and driver involvement/fun are two different things. All carmakers can build a car that handles well or better than a BMW. But it doesnt mean the car is fun to drive just becuase a car has good handling.
Handling and driver involvement/fun are two separate things.

 

[LaArtist]

do someone recall if the results for the W203 was this good at debut against the previous 3er..
i cant remember really

 

[Zafiro]

do someone recall if the results for the W203 was this good at debut against the previous 3er..
i cant remember really

why is it so important for you?
I think you should focus on sales for W204 instead. If the car will sell more than previous generation C-class and BMW 3er. Far more intresting than reading carreviews becuase carreviews is based on the testers opinions and they are people like us.

 

[EnI]

do someone recall if the results for the W203 was this good at debut against the previous 3er..
i cant remember really

I remember when W203 debuted it was praised being "besser als 3er". Everybody loved "kleine S-Klasse".

Nothing much changed during the years: BMW is praised for agility & driver involvement, MB for space & comfort, Audi for offering a bit of bot worlds - therefore being best all-rounder & best value for money (also due best fit & finish).

Regarding latest test: I'm sure BMW lost points in traditional categories like ergonomics (iDrive), interior space, boot space, variability, sitting comfort, ride comfort (suspension) & warranty.

So, nothing new here.

The only BMW model that was beaten by competition in BMW won field was E65 7er - for not being as agile as A8. Otherwise BMW still deliver better agility & driver involvement as MB, Audi. Lexus etc - and this is a promise of BMW brand. So, if wanting best luxury car BMW is definitely not the car for you: go for MB, Lexus or Audi. Want a car to drive & have fun driving it: go for BMW. And that's BMW's selling point, and not "we are the best luxury car". Even more: most traditional luxury buyers don't even consider to buy BMW since BMWs are not comfortable enough. Therefore Reithofer's task is also to position BMW as more luxury brand while not losing traditional BMW characteristics (agility, driver involvement, fun to drive) & customers who buy BMW for their traditional values.

Mind that BMW have always been considered as a niche brand: for sporty oriented luxury buyers only. An alternative brand. So the fact BMW have overtaken MB is even more sensational in this regard. Naturally - by nature of their products - MB, Lexus & Audi have broader customer base available: more traditional luxury buyers. Being more mainstream products. While eg. BMW, Maserati ,Jaguar & Infiniti are considerd as more niche brand / products with their emphasized sportiness over comfort - occupying only a small part of luxury segment.

 

[LaArtist]

i reacall it as previously that the 3er won most tests..
and was near unbeatable..
but this time around i think the gap has closed to very little or nothing

good job from MB´s side..

 

[Zafiro]

i reacall it as previously that the 3er won most tests..

If thats the case then let see if the new C-class can beat the BMW 3er in sales. This is the most difficult part for MB.

 

[EnI]

i reacall it as previously that the 3er won most tests..
and was near unbeatable..
but this time around i think the gap has closed to very little or nothing

good job from MB´s side..

Not in German automotive press. Especially AMS & AutoBild praised W203 C-class a lot (over 3er).

Yet the total scores were always very close.

But it is true eg. BMW won by margin in driving dynamics category, while MB got huge advantage in space & comfort category. Today all categories are much more closer in results. But the total result is the same.

 

[EnI]

If thats the case then let see if the new C-class can beat the BMW 3er in sales. This is the most difficult part for MB.

That won't be the case - since MB production capabilities for C-class are much lower than BMWs for 3er. Talking about total life-cycle worldwide sales.

I'm sure that in some markets & some periods (eg. German in the next months) C-class will sell better than 3er - especially due decreasing 3er production due update.

Late fall, or early spring will be best indicators where the sales stand (when also B8 A4 will be available).

Yet I'm sure BMW ill boost 3er sales a lot with their EfficientDynamics features (HPI engines, BER, automatic Start&Stop, more economical gearboxes etc). Lets wait till fall.

 

[Merc1]

Mind that BMW have always been considered as a niche brand: for sporty oriented luxury buyers only. An alternative brand. So the fact BMW have overtaken MB is even more sensational in this regard. Naturally - by nature of their products - MB, Lexus & Audi have broader customer base available: more traditional luxury buyers. Being more mainstream products. While eg. BMW, Maserati ,Jaguar & Infiniti are considerd as more niche brand / products with their emphasized sportiness over comfort - occupying only a small part of luxury segment.

I understand what you're saying here, but this is pretty much in theory only. The reality of it is at least in the U.S. market is that majority of buyers clearly aren't enthusiasts and they're looking at the brand more than any intangibles about sportiness or doing really huge analysis on which car is more comfortable. Traditionally BMW may have been considered a niche product overall, but not anymore with the 3 and 5-Series taking the sales lead in those segments. BMW is one the front page of the majority of U.S. luxury car buyers, that isn't niche status. The only place where BMW doesn't carry such weight is past the 5-Series, where MB reigns supreme.

BMW's 3-Series are sold primarily to badgy hounds as are most of the cars in the entry-level field. MB, Lexus and Audi having a broader customer base isn't true overall either. You have to divide it up by the segments in order for that to be true. Mercedes, yes they have a broader customer base when it comes to the upper segment like where the S, CL and SL compete, because BMW, Lexus and Audi don't do as much or any business there (i.e. CL, SL), but when it comes to the entry-level market BMW has a much wider base because the 3 outsells all the rest quite easily. Lexus' customer base has been split up into 3 catergories, traditionally that is. The ES, RX and LS, up until last year very few people sought out the IS or the GS and the GS if falling again. Audi, at least in the U.S. only has the A4 as a truly defined customer base because the A8 and A6 are conistantly at the bottom of the sales charts in their classes. Audi's whole problem is that they don't really have a customer base here or at least not one as defined and true as BMW and Mercedes.

IMO, that BMW has overtaken Mercedes isn't remarkable at all when you look at the how many variants of the 3-Series they sell and how many of them they sell a year. It was to be expected with a weaker Benz to compete with.

Mercedes and BMW in truth compliment each other nicely in the market. BMW takes the lower and MB the upper and the only place they really meet in sales in the U.S. is like in the middle E vs. 5, everywhere else it isn't even close. It goes without saying that this leave Audi in no man's land. All from a U.S. market point of view of course.

M