Vs AutoBild:Lexus IS 220D vs BMW 320d vs Mercedes C220 CDI.

[Snake Vargas]

You guys are f****** hilarious with your toys-out-of-pram tantrums about auto media.

The Mercedes won over the Lexus. Lexus copy everything the Germans make. If they did make better cars than the Germans they wouldn't have to copy anything the Germans make.

The bias is in your minds. GROW UP!

Look who's talking. What's this "copy everything the Germans make"? I won't ask for proof, because there isn't any. You peddle the same arguments without support as though the act of saying it again, more vehemently, would make it true.

I don't want to attack you, Andaluz, but laughing at us and telling us to "grow up" as though we're blinded by some nonsense is simply pointless and insulting.

---

Back on topic now:

No, but it does two things:

1.) Disproves your statement of "I've never heard of such a thing. In allreviews the 3er won."

2.) The fact that it's on par, and in these particular cases, better than it's German rivals.

We're not trying to tell you the Lexus is better, or that it has "won". We're just trying to get you to acknowledge that the BMW doesn't win every time, nor just these 2 times out of a supposed infinity. Like Beemer Boi and Mr Merc have been saying, the Lexus can win on its merits, whatever they are. Every tester has their own preferences, just like customers in the real world have theirs. They choose as they do, as professionals with plenty of experience. You don't have to agree with their verdict, if your priorities are different, but at least I hope you can realise that the 3er isn't better in every single way possible.

As for size, the IS is only smaller than the 3er by about one or two inches in any particular dimension. I don't think it's right to call it a smaller size class, really. On the other hand, it's somewhat heavier, for what it's worth. Of course, that has an effect on fuel economy and acceleration. You can take that for what you will - it's not a racing car, in any case.

Now to the ES. Well, I think it's a bit of a grab for the traditional Lexus market in the US, those who care mainly for refinement and comfort. It's been superseded completely by the IS, here. I wasn't a fan of the pre-FL version, and I'm not saddened to see it only sold in the US, now. I respect Lexus, but I don't like this particular model.

 

[Yperion]

The bias is in your minds. GROW UP!

Ok let's keep the tone down please.

Some like Lexus and some don't. End of story.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Look who's talking. What's this "copy everything the Germans make"?

Yes they are.

The last IS was too much of an obvious even visually ripp off, at least this time they've droped the inline-6 engine.

But make no mistake about it, the IS is tring to copy the 3er.

 

[Yperion]

This discussion is really interesting although i certainly don't agree with some of opinions of others here i respect their right to say what they believe.

Please guys let's keep this civilised. No flaming or personal attacks please.Thanks in advance.

 

[Snake Vargas]

Thanks Yannis.

IE, how was it so obvious? In what way was it a visual ripoff? Please back up your argument.

Plus, last time I checked, BMW don't have a trademark on the Inline-6.

And in either case - to get back on to the topic and not get mired in useless side arguments, like the good ol' "<insert brand name> are copycats" - so what if they are following the Germans? It's not like it's an exact clone. The 3-Series was, and is, a benchmark in this segment, no doubt. The issue isn't whether Lexus or anyone else has taken a page from BMW's book, but whether the final product is a worthy competitor or not.

I say it is.

 

[warot]

Thanks Yannis.

IE, how was it so obvious? In what way was it a visual ripoff? Please back up your argument.

Plus, last time I checked, BMW don't have a trademark on the Inline-6.

And in either case - to get back on to the topic and not get mired in useless side arguments, like the good ol' "<insert brand name> are copycats" - so what if they are following the Germans? It's not like it's an exact clone. The 3-Series was, and is, a benchmark in this segment, no doubt. The issue isn't whether Lexus or anyone else has taken a page from BMW's book, but whether the final product is a worthy competitor or not.

I say it is.

I say it has too

 

[LaArtist]

just for the record .. i drove behind a pearlwhite IS today..and i gotta admit its DAMN hot..no doubt..
actually its much hotter than my C.. its like 3er level hot imho

 

[Imhotep Evil]

I'm tired.
The 3er is the better, like it always was.
Everything else is pointless conversation.
'nuff said

 

[Centurion]

just for the record .. i drove behind a pearlwhite IS today..and i gotta admit its DAMN hot..no doubt..
actually its much hotter than my C.. its like 3er level hot imho

What are you waiting for, go and ask for a testdrive. Ask for the 250 Sport.

 

[Zafiro]

What are you waiting for, go and ask for a testdrive. Ask for the 250 Sport.

no 350 to sweden to compete with the 335i engine?

 

[wltsm]

I must say artist, I'd have to agree with you!

I have seen quite a few new ISs around and it's a very good looking car!

I say one in like an olive green colour and it looked very attractive and elegant!

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

This discussion has become pointless, it's like beating a dead horse.

Car's within a certain class will undoubtedly have similarities. To say the new IS is a copy of the 3-er is ludicrous.

 

[Centurion]

no 350 to sweden to compete with the 335i engine?

It all depends on how good the IS250 is selling. If the car has sold well the latest year there is a good chance that Lexus will introduce the car in Sweden.

What I'm anxious to see is the IS460(?) which will hopefully be introduced this year. It would be really cool if it turns out to be equally as raw as the RS4 or up coming M3.

The pictures below are close to a year old.

 

[LaArtist]

yep luw.. ile testdrive it..my testdriving season will start as soon as the rain stops..and the lexus is on the agenda..

PS
seing those spy pics i remember the only thing i didnt like about the car..and its the fact that it has very boring and HUGE wing mirrors.. hate that..
but then again im bein picky now..

 

[Matt]

First of all I would like to say that I do believe that the IS is definitely a competitor with the 3 series, a strong competitor at that. But when you look at the Aussie car market it isnt fair to really compare them because the price gap is so large causing the Lexus to win by default becuase it so much less expensive to own than the Bimmer.
As for the American articles, the BMW (as far as I know) has usually won. Most journalist don't complain about I-drive in the 3 because it is an option and look for the core things such as driving pleasure and basic practility, which I think BMW has over the Lexus (trunk size and rear seat size as well). Now, dont get me wrong the Lexus is a fantasitic car that has tons of raw power and a very excellent look but in my personal opionion I think the 3 series is a better package overall. (except australia with huge price gap.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

This discussion has become pointless, it's like beating a dead horse.

Car's within a certain class will undoubtedly have similarities. To say the new IS is a copy of the 3-er is ludicrous.

I agree Mr. Mercedes, it's just not worth trying to provide an alterior opinion to those who have an in-grown cultural and brand biased.

As I've said, I am a BMW fan, and I also had a bias against Lexus, but that has changed as I've learned more about their vehicles.
If for some miracle/fortunate reason I was in the market for a 3er/IS/A4/C-class market, I would personally pick the 3er without considering any of the others. I know that shows brand bias, but that's simply because I have always wanted to own a BMW and I know that there isn't much of a difference between the cars. Also, I know from endless comparo's and reviews that the 3er has the driving dynamics that I like in a car.
BUT, unlike some members here, I still have respect for the Lexus and acknowledgement that the IS is a very competent package, but just not the right package for me.
For Yannis, the A4 may be his best package. For Artist, his best package may be the C-class, and for Imhotep Evil the 3er suits his liking. That's very understandable, but some of you just aren't willing to acknowledge how good the IS actually is. You hear 'Lexus' and u groan. You hear 'IS vs 3er/A4/C' and you turn a blind-eye to the facts and adopt a subjective, biased and narrow minded opinion.

Those in this thread who have defended the IS are not trying to say that the IS is the better car, because as Snake said, there is no one better car, it's whichever suits the driver best. All we are simply saying is acknowledge the qualities and capabilities of the IS rather than using petty arguements like it's a supped up Toyota Camry, or a copier of the Germans. Listen to yourselves and tell me who needs to grow up.
I agree that the 3er is a better car, but a better car for me that is.
If I say the 7er is the best car, I'll never hear the end of Yannis talking about the A8, or Artist talking about the S-class. There is NO best car. I may have a car I favour, but Im not immature and ignorant to say it is the best car "nuff said".

 

[LaArtist]

there are 2 exceptions beemer boi..
The S65 and the Zonda F are really the BEST CARS.. haha

 

[warot]

I agree Mr. Mercedes, it's just not worth trying to provide an alterior opinion to those who have an in-grown cultural and brand biased.

As I've said, I am a BMW fan, and I also had a bias against Lexus, but that has changed as I've learned more about their vehicles.
If for some miracle/fortunate reason I was in the market for a 3er/IS/A4/C-class market, I would personally pick the 3er without considering any of the others. I know that shows brand bias, but that's simply because I have always wanted to own a BMW and I know that there isn't much of a difference between the cars. Also, I know from endless comparo's and reviews that the 3er has the driving dynamics that I like in a car.
BUT, unlike some members here, I still have respect for the Lexus and acknowledgement that the IS is a very competent package, but just not the right package for me.
For Yannis, the A4 may be his best package. For Artist, his best package may be the C-class, and for Imhotep Evil the 3er suits his liking. That's very understandable, but some of you just aren't willing to acknowledge how good the IS actually is. You hear 'Lexus' and u groan. You hear 'IS vs 3er/A4/C' and you turn a blind-eye to the facts and adopt a subjective, biased and narrow minded opinion.

Those in this thread who have defended the IS are not trying to say that the IS is the better car, because as Snake said, there is no one better car, it's whichever suits the driver best. All we are simply saying is acknowledge the qualities and capabilities of the IS rather than using petty arguements like it's a supped up Toyota Camry, or a copier of the Germans. Listen to yourselves and tell me who needs to grow up.
I agree that the 3er is a better car, but a better car for me that is.
If I say the 7er is the best car, I'll never hear the end of Yannis talking about the A8, or Artist talking about the S-class. There is NO best car. I may have a car I favour, but Im not immature and ignorant to say it is the best car "nuff said".

I applaud you bb. My sentiments exactly

 

[martinbo]

There's a fine line between patriotism and xenophobia.

It's obvious that the inception of the EU and the blurring of economic boundaries brings with it a whole new phenomenon of consumer loyalty. Europeans are resolutely proud of their achievements, co-operatively, under such cultural diversity. And so they should be...

Some of us a less nationalistically inclined and perhaps that makes us more open-minded. We're also not thick and will acknowledge that whilst the 3er isn't exclusively superior to an IS, it will win comparisons 9 times of 10.

 

[Yperion]

Martin while i respect your opinion my belief is that E90 is clearly superior to IS and the same goes for A4 and C class although in a lesser extend.

Greek car journalists don't need to have any petriotism at all (since we are talking about German and Japanese cars) and Toyota has managed to have very good "public relations" with the magazines here but previous IS and current one never got to win any comparo. Not one that i know of at least.