Vs AutoBild: Audi Q7 V12 TDI vs. Porsche Cayenne Turbo S
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HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
The idea that an SUV can't be made in to a "sports vehicle" is ridiculous. If you turn it around, someone could say a sedan could NEVER be a "sports vehicle", which would automatically be a smack in the face of the M5.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with M producing the X5 and X6. Some of you act as though the X6 M and X5 M replaced the M3 and M5. The X6 M and X5 M are here to stay, no matter how many of you complain about it. Now when the engine catches on fire or if their is some major technical issue then it will make sense to complain.
Nothing is wrong with BMW producing a car that car rival The Porsche Turbo S and ML63 AMG. It's called CHANGE!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with M producing the X5 and X6. Some of you act as though the X6 M and X5 M replaced the M3 and M5. The X6 M and X5 M are here to stay, no matter how many of you complain about it. Now when the engine catches on fire or if their is some major technical issue then it will make sense to complain.
Nothing is wrong with BMW producing a car that car rival The Porsche Turbo S and ML63 AMG. It's called CHANGE!
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
it is not ridiculous, it is basic fact.
..and no, the BMW M5 is not a sportscar.
No one acts like the X5"M" and X6"M" are going to replace the M3 and M5, they just show that M has shifted focus to the worse. If the next M5 have any form of recemblance in execution to the "M"-cars, then the magic is lost. That is the whole point and that is what fans of what M has done in the past are worried about.
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
IMO...It shows that they are more open to ideas and finding new customer base, in what a Business should actually be about.
I think BMW has conditioned it's fans to only believe that an M3 and M5 are the only opinion EVER. Really, if you don't want it then you don't have to buy it. I am sure there are plenty of people who are excited about the two SUVs becoming M's and they will probably even pay full sticker for them.
Look at Mercedes-Benz loyalist! You will hardly ever see us complain about AMG. I think the most we ever did was complain about the R-class AMG and that is because it's huge, but that debate didn't even last as long as this one.
I didn't see anyone complain about the Porsche Turbo when it came out. Maybe it's just me, but I see no point of constantly complain over and over and over and over about the X6M and X5M.
It has gotten so bad that it almost seems as though you all are talking about a human being losing her way. M is a business, not a "lifestyle". There goal is to make money. Producing a couple of SUVs doesn't mean their losing there design direction or focus.
My point, why cry about the two and praise the Porsche? They both serve the same purpose and serve it well. Thankfully the M3 and M5 will always be around for those who prefer M cars.
And please don't think this is directed at you, I'm just tired of the debate in general.
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
The next real M cars will tell us if the focus is still there...
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
The M5 is next right?
chonkoa
Aerodynamic Artisan
I completely agree with you. The M version of the X5/6 is something I welcome and I guess I am one of the very few that will honestly say I like and see such a machine in my garage.
I can't understand why it is acceptable for both Porsche and Mercedes Benz to have performance SUV but not BMW - sounds like double standard to me.
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
Yea the ML63 AMG is nice...
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
Since there will be no 1-series M car or a new Z4 M, I guess the next M5 will be it. Even if the M5 is not a sportscar, per se, it has historically represented pretty much of what M stands for. It will be a good benchmark for what we can expect from that department the comming years.
Merc1
Premium
To me, it isn't necessarily that M has made a SUV, but the way they've gone about doing it. I don't think any of the BMW M loyalists here would be as upset if these M twins had come with the current V10 updated with the M-DCT gearbox.
As far as it being double standard is concerned, let me count the ways. BMW talked down about forced induction, high curb weights, awd, and automatic transmissions. Their own press material for the M5/M6 spoke a lot about this in unnammed reference to AMG, Jaguar and Audi. For them to go and do the same exact thing is a farce, a grand about face, a lie to many M loyalists. Thats why. BMW put themeselves in the position to be different, and BMW and their most loyal fans lived and breathed the M way of going about performance and ridiculed any other way of doing it (i.e. supercharging, turbos, awd, automatics) and now they've done the exact same thing. There is no way around or to gloss over that. A 7-Series doesn't fit the M profile, but an X5 does? BMW just sold out (and pimped the M brand) under market pressue from Porsche and Mercedes, simply as that.
These M SUVs are nothing more than extensions of their regular turbo V8 siblings. Just like what AMG used to do.
It is so funny to me that now AMG has a totally unique engine from the rest of the lineup in most of their AMG cars, but BMW is going back to what AMG used to do, modify and existing pedestrian engine. There is where the ire is among M loyalists.
If the X6/X5 M twins debuted an updated n/a V10 and the M-DCT gearbox this conversation wouldn't be nearly as protracted. That said I like the X6 M a great deal. It will still be a hell of a performer and the looks stun.
M
Sunny
Premium
The V10 with it's 384lb-ft of peeky torque would have struggled to move a 5000lb truck at a competitive pace. I agree about the DCT, they should have adopted it or even the SMG instead of the automatic.
Merc1
Premium
Yeah I know and I agree it wouldn't have been the best fit as it is tuned now, but with DI and some other BMW tricks I'm sure they could have made it work, especially if they lightened the X6 at the same time. Just a thought. That to me would have make the X6 a true M vehicle. Make it mildly exotic you know.
M
cawimmer430
Piston Pioneer
I think people are having a hard time accepting "change" with something as defining and traditionally focused as BMW M. BMW M stands for no-nonsense purism, but they've moved into other niches because there is obviously a demand for other BMWs with the M treatment: the X5 M and X6 M. Maybe in the future we'll even see an M7, but for now I think Alpina does a good job of making the 7-Series sportier than it already is.
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
...but they had no traditional M treatment at all... just a badge.
