AutoBild - AMG Super Test

[cawimmer430]

I'm not so sure about whether AMG tuned the CLK63 differently than the C55 from a suspension/steering point of view, but you may be right.

What I do know is that the CLK63 isn't that much faster than the C55 on Hockenheim (according to Sport Auto). 1.18,4 min vs 1.18,6 min. That's a 0.2 second advantage for the CLK63, which is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the C55 in a straightline, meaning that the cornering speeds can't be that different at all.

Anyways, thanks again for the translations. I think I've posted enough on this forum for today....

I'll be leaving soon too.

There are many factors that can describe the outcome. Perhaps the Autobild testers didn't find the C55 sporty, but they found the CLK63 sporty? Bias could be a big factor. C55 = old V8, CLK63 AMG = new V8, therefore, it must be the better / sportier car. Car testers make stupid mistakes too.

 

[Zafiro]

I have never seen MB fans talking so much about tracktimes. In the old days when people started to talk about laptimes, MB fans shaked their heads and said: "Who cares about handling and laptimes".

Today you wont get a fork in your head by a MB fan when you start to discuss tracks and handling Time changes I guess

 

[GTA45E]

I have never seen MB fans talking so much about tracktimes. In the old days when people started to talk about laptimes, MB fans shaked their heads and said: "Who cares about handling and laptimes".

Today you wont get a fork in your head by a MB fan when you start to discuss tracks and handling Time changes I guess

I think by now we MB fans know this.. we however believe a sports sedan with an AMG badge should be as relaxed and happy to please it`s owner on the streets and highways as well as the track. This is where AMG models shine, in the jobs thay are really designed for.


Btw, big thanks for the translation wimmer, that was much needed!

 

[PC Valkyrie]

I have never seen MB fans talking so much about tracktimes. In the old days when people started to talk about laptimes, MB fans shaked their heads and said: "Who cares about handling and laptimes".

Today you wont get a fork in your head by a MB fan when you start to discuss tracks and handling Time changes I guess

Most of the time, laptimes don't mean much at all on everday streets. Straight line acceleration still is the easiest and most common method for people to "enjoy" their cars on everyday roads. For a few that actually take their cars to the track, laptimes can mean a lot more. Ultimately, the most important thing is to enjoy the car you've chosen to own/drive. Hopefully, people make the right decisions based on what their needs/wants are.

To be honest, GermanCarForum is the reason I've become addicted to laptimes around Nuburgring, Hockenheim, and Bedford Autodome (Evo). So it's all your fault...

 

[Zafiro]

Most of the time, laptimes don't mean much at all on everday streets. Straight line acceleration still is the easiest and most common method for people to "enjoy" their cars on everyday roads. For a few that actually take their cars to the track, laptimes can mean a lot more. Ultimately, the most important thing is to enjoy the car you've chosen to own/drive. Hopefully, people make the right decisions based on what their needs/wants are.

To be honest, GermanCarForum is the reason I've become addicted to laptimes around Nuburgring, Hockenheim, and Bedford Autodome (Evo). So it's all your fault...

Here is the truth:
"in the old days" Mercedes was no good car on a track or handled as the competition. Now AMG has done something about it and fans notice this (of course there been exceptions, SLR and CLK-DTM, but unfortunaly they cost a lot more and not everyone could afford them). It has bugged many MB fans for so long to see BMW ahead of MB i handling department therefore they didnt want to discuss handling and laptimes. But now when AMG is closing in on M then they find it intresting.

I have been on GCF and the old place GCF for many years and so have many other members on this place. During these years you kind of learn what certain members like or dont like to discuss. AMG and handling was not something MB fans wanted to talk about, many of those MB fans has obviously changed their mind nowdays.

My 2 cents

 

[PC Valkyrie]

Here is the truth:
"in the old days" Mercedes was no good car on a track or handled as the competition. Now AMG has done something about it and fans notice this (of course there been exceptions, SLR and CLK-DTM, but unfortunaly they cost a lot more and not everyone could afford them). It has bugged many MB fans for so long to see BMW ahead of MB i handling department therefore they didnt want to discuss handling and laptimes. But now when AMG is closing in on M then they find it intresting.

I have been on GCF and the old place GCF for many years and so have many other members on this place. During these years you kind of learn what certain members like or dont like to discuss. AMG and handling was not something MB fans wanted to talk about, many of those MB fans has obviously changed their mind nowdays.

My 2 cents

Here is another "truth".

In the "old days", AMG cars routinely outaccelerated their M counterparts. AMG cars were/are known for their massive engines and super straight line acceleration. BMW and their fans knew/know this, and their only response is: "well, BMW M cars are not drag race cars, they offer superior handling and superior driving dynamics". To this day, some of this is still true. There is nothing in BMW M's department to counter the 65 series cars.

The most common scenario I see on BMW forums is this: an AMG car wins a street race from a stop light. Then the BMW fans say: "let's see what happens when you go through some turns". And my personal response is this: The outcome is likely going to be the same, because most people can't drive like Mr. Horst von Saurma of Sport Auto because they 1) don't have the skill, and 2) don't have the opportunity to corner like a madman safely on everyday streets.

Now, don't get me wrong. BMW M cars offer a better driving experience for the driver and offer better handling which can be exploited only while going very fast on some serious curves. Some of us are fortunate enough to live in places where there are nice twisty roads that are mostly deserted where you can "play", in addition to taking it to the track, where it's the safest to do such things.

 

[Zafiro]

Here is another "truth".

In the "old days", AMG cars routinely outaccelerated their M counterparts. AMG cars were/are known for their massive engines and super straight line acceleration. BMW and their fans knew/know this, and their only response is: "well, BMW M cars are not drag race cars, they offer superior handling and superior driving dynamics". To this day, some of this is still true. There is nothing in BMW M's department to counter the 65 series cars.

The most common scenario I see on BMW forums is this: an AMG car wins a street race from a stop light. Then the BMW fans say: "let's see what happens when you go through some turns". And my personal response is this: The outcome is likely going to be the same, because most people can't drive like Mr. Horst von Saurma of Sport Auto because they 1) don't have the skill, and 2) don't have the opportunity to corner like a madman safely on everyday streets.

Now, don't get me wrong. BMW M cars offer a better driving experience for the driver and offer better handling which can be exploited only while going very fast on some serious curves. Some of us are fortunate enough to live in places where there are nice twisty roads that are mostly deserted where you can "play", in addition to taking it to the track, where it's the safest to do such things.

- M have never been a 402m car but on the highway they are fast. I say M always been a fast car, fast enough to be a threat to AMG, outside the 402 m area. Inside the 402 m area, AMG have always been the best and still are.

- BMW still offer the better driving experience which you dont need to be a horst von saurma to notice.

- On a twisty road a guy with a S4 or a RS4 will probably outhandle guys in AMG and M unless they are not great drivers. AWD is safe compared to RWD and you can explore the limits better with a S/RS than with an AMG/M.

Thats other "truths"

 

[cawimmer430]

I have never seen MB fans talking so much about tracktimes. In the old days when people started to talk about laptimes, MB fans shaked their heads and said: "Who cares about handling and laptimes".

Today you wont get a fork in your head by a MB fan when you start to discuss tracks and handling Time changes I guess

In the older days, the typical Mercedes customer was also older and cared more about comfort and relaxed driving than handling.

Nowadays, MB has to appeal to younger buyers as a whole who grew up with a degree of sport in their blood and they also want that in their cars. Hence, MB is just adapting to market trends and demands.

 

[Zafiro]

In the older days, the typical Mercedes customer was also older and cared more about comfort and relaxed driving than handling.

Nowadays, MB has to appeal to younger buyers as a whole who grew up with a degree of sport in their blood and they also want that in their cars. Hence, MB is just adapting to market trends and demands.

MB has just one big fault and that is offering only automatic gearbox. AMG would attract more people if they also offered manuel or a seqventiell gearbox.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

- M have never been a 402m car but on the highway they are fast. I say M always been a fast car, fast enough to be a threat to AMG, outside the 402 m area. Inside the 402 m area, AMG have always been the best and still are.

- BMW still offer the better driving experience which you dont need to be a horst von saurma to notice.

- On a twisty road a guy with a S4 or a RS4 will probably outhandle guys in AMG and M unless they are not great drivers. AWD is safe compared to RWD and you can explore the limits better with a S/RS than with an AMG/M.

Thats other "truths"

Haha....Just_me......can't ever back down, eh?

Why are you now talking about S4/RS4 and quattro AWD compared to AMG/M?

I already said that BMW cars offer a superior driving experience in my last post, so I agree with you there.

You and many M5board.com members keep talking about straightline acceleration
numbers "beyond 402m" and at higher speeds simply because that is the only time the E60 M5 has an advantage over the E63/E55, right?

Just like you say AMG fans didn't like to talk about laptimes in the past because AMG cars didn't do so well on the track, I can say that BMW fans don't like to talk about 0-60mph or 1/4 mile times because BMW M cars typically lose to AMG cars.

According to your theory, it's all the same thing. AMG fans and BMW M fans don't like to talk about what their cars AREN'T that good at (when compared to the competition....which is always AMG vs M).

In other words, we're all the same....

And for the record, I'm NOT just a MB/AMG fan. I appreciate cars for what they can do, and straight line acceleration times AND laptimes are important for me when assessing a performance car. As a track/fun car, I would choose a BMW M or Porsche hands down.

 

[Zafiro]

Haha....Just_me......can't ever back down, eh?

Why are you now talking about S4/RS4 and quattro AWD compared to AMG/M?

I already said that BMW cars offer a superior driving experience in my last post, so I agree with you there.

You and many M5board.com members keep talking about straightline acceleration
numbers "beyond 402m" and at higher speeds simply because that is the only time the E60 M5 has an advantage over the E63/E55, right?

Just like you say AMG fans didn't like to talk about laptimes in the past because AMG cars didn't do so well on the track, I can say that BMW fans don't like to talk about 0-60mph or 1/4 mile times because BMW M cars typically lose to AMG cars.

According to your theory, it's all the same thing. AMG fans and BMW M fans don't like to talk about what their cars AREN'T that good at (when compared to the competition....which is always AMG vs M).

In other words, we're all the same....

And for the record, I'm NOT just a MB/AMG fan. I appreciate cars for what they can do, and straight line acceleration times AND laptimes are important for me when assessing a performance car. As a track/fun car, I would choose a BMW M or Porsche hands down.

RS is just as good as AMG and M, MB and BMw fans often forget that. The world isnt only AMG or M. It might be just M and AMG in your eyes but not to me. Particulary RS is a big threat to AMG and M.

M5 and E55 are very similar from 0 to 160km/h, after 200km/h M5 seem to have the edge. With E63 that might have changed, I dont know

No, we arent the same, Im superior to you, you are just my boytoy

 

[cawimmer430]

MB has just one big fault and that is offering only automatic gearbox. AMG would attract more people if they also offered manuel or a seqventiell gearbox.

The problem is that marketing research has shown that the vast majority of AMG customers don't mind the automatic as they simply want a "normal Mercedes with more power and better handling".

I agree that a manual could be an alluring option, but not on every AMG model. The AMG models I think are best suited to having a manual are the SLK and C-Class.

 

[cawimmer430]

RS is just as good as AMG and M, MB and BMw fans often forget that. The world isnt only AMG or M. It might be just M and AMG in your eyes but not to me. Particulary RS is a big threat to AMG and M.

And coming soon to join the party, Lexus F.

 

[Zafiro]

The problem is that marketing research has shown that the vast majority of AMG customers don't mind the automatic as they simply want a "normal Mercedes with more power and better handling".

I agree that a manual could be an alluring option, but not on every AMG model. The AMG models I think are best suited to having a manual are the SLK and C-Class.

of course not for S/CL but for SLK/C/CLK/E. I still say with a manual AMG would attract more buyers, despite what Mercdes markeeting think.

 

[cawimmer430]

of course not for S/CL but for SLK/C/CLK/E. I still say with a manual AMG would attract more buyers, despite what Mercdes markeeting think.

With the E-Class AMG, it'll be just like the standard E-Class. Most E220 CDI's and E280's, which are available with a 6-speed are bought with A/T's. Benz customers usually choose the automatic by default.

Need to run my dog now.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

RS is just as good as AMG and M, MB and BMw fans often forget that. The world isnt only AMG or M. It might be just M and AMG in your eyes but not to me. Particulary RS is a big threat to AMG and M.

M5 and E55 are very similar from 0 to 160km/h, after 200km/h M5 seem to have the edge. With E63 that might have changed, I dont know

No, we arent the same, Im superior to you, you are just my boytoy

I know the latest RS4 is the current king of the M3/C55 segment. And I know RS is a legitimate player in this arena. I can argue that previous S cars didn't have the performance numbers to match AMG/M, but that may change in the future. But my question is why you suddenly brought Audi into your argument when we were obviously talking about AMG vs M?

Now it seems you are the one obsessed with straightline acceleration for the M5. I agree that the E60 M5 finally brought M to a level playing field with the E55/E63 when it comes to straight line acceleration, just like the C55 finally became the 1st C-class AMG car to match the M3 on Nurburgring. And cars like the SLK55 have brought AMG even closer to BMW's handling superiority.

You're right that we're not the same. You seem to have an intense dislike for AMG and can't stand it whenever anything from AMG beats or comes close to matching BMW M. I actually like BMW and their M division because they build excellent driver's cars, and I appreciate their cars for what they can offer.

But we can still be friends online, right?

 

[Zafiro]

You're right that we're not the same. You seem to have an intense dislike for AMG and can't stand it whenever anything from AMG beats or comes close to matching BMW M. I actually like BMW and their M division because they build excellent driver's cars, and I appreciate their cars for what they can offer.

But we can still be friends online, right?

WHAT? Thats not true, Its true I prefer M over AMG but I dont dislike AMG. I know they are great cars, they are comfortable and thanks to lot torque they are great autobahn crusier and fast and easy to pass a car. I have a lot of respect for AMG, just as much as I respect S/RS. You actually hurt my feelings when you say such things. You obviolsy dont know me that well, in fact I probably appreciate AMG as much as you appreciate M.
Im not one of those crazy fanatics you seem to think I am.

We can be friends but only if you furthermore dont claim that I dislike AMG and dont respect AMG. As you notice I didnt appreciate that part.

and please dont turn this debate to like I only care about straightline acceleration, you and me were having a discussion regarding straightline and if you dont like it, we can stop right here. No problem for me.

 

[Bruce]

Article now online at AutoBild's site: Here

Includes video's, sound clips and 64 photos

 

[cawimmer430]

THIS:



Is an awesome picture.

Too bad they don't have it in wallpaper size.

 

[ALI]

You guys need to take a chill pil , now why would someone hate a SPORTS CAR CLUB ?? Or better way of saying it a BRAND DIVISION ?? That's just childish , and I dont think Just me is childish at all , LOL ....

It's true what Just Me said about MB fans , infact we did use to ignore the subject when it would concern HANDLING , but not handling in general , it was BMW M VS MB AMG handling competition we used to ignore precisely !! Not that AMGs were bad handling cars , they just werent up to the competition level ...... Now they are , and MB fans are loving it , and you might laugh when u read this , but I just cant wait till the next curve to come when Im driving my E63 !! It's sensational and it feels good , very much a driver's car , I find my self not interested in straightlines all of a sudden !! Because I already know how fast it goes , I find myself practicing how fast I could take this curve coming up , oh boy there is a 360 degree ramp that I used to max 46 mph in the CLS55 , with the E63 I managed 59 mph .... IMO I think M and AMG are equal because MBs are usually heavier than competition in every segment LOL .....


So yeah , MB fans have changed , but we've changed with the brand , that's what makes us true MB fanatics .....