A5/S5/RS5 AMS - Audi RS5 TEST

[footie]

I'm just enthused with this assertion:

Porsche Carrera 2 S "defeated" by RS5. Defeated? Really footie, must everything you write about Audi be so palpably propagandist? 'Sakes, the day Autozeitung makes reliable, consistent verdicts on performance cars is the day I swap subscriptions from EVO to WhatCar? .

One can only write about the facts when nothing else is known, as is the case with this test by Autozeitung because I haven't read the article. The only facts I know is that the RS5 was the chosen as the winner from the two, does that mean it defeated the other and was it not victorious?

A bit confused if winning a test actually means the opposite, which is what you are implying.

Martin, if the shoe was on the other foot and it was the M3 being victorious would we be hearing any complaints from you or any other if I was commenting about the M3 in the same manner?

I take it from your remarks that Autozeitung are either Audi bias (quite possible) or aren't as reliable a source as EVO and some others. I can't comment nor would I on such a thing, only to say that so far most reviews have been favourable...........would you not agree?

For me, Carrera S PDK over RS5 without question; even over my absolute darling M3 if money was no object.

Well you showed your preference card right there, claiming that the M3 is your favourite product at this price. I can't deny it's something special because I loved mine while I had it, but equally I couldn't claim to prefer it or the RS5 over the Carrera but only if the option of a 'normal' car was readily available when it would become tiresome, like I said earlier.

Maybe that was what the reviewer was implying by giving the nod to the RS5, meaning the differences in outright performance wasn't great enough to swing the result in favour of the Carrera S.

 

[footie]

There will be a comparison between the RS5 and the Nissan GT-R in the next issue of AutoBild Sportscars.

This will be one battle the RS5 could never win because the differences in practicality isn't as great as it was with the Carrera, plus the performance gap is huge.

The only interesting thing I am looking to read from that article is how well (or not) the RS5 compares in the handling and involvement.

 

[footie]

Yeah, I know the times are "real". It would be great to see a video of the track where AZ's testing cars... and the way they do the measuring, because they get over-optimistic times. Constantly. No matter what kind of cars they gonna test, we know the times will be the best.

The same can and is said about a certain US magazine which I am sure will better these results. Especially when you look at what they get from the M3 compared to European reviews, in fact if you look hard enough you will see as great and greater variations in M3 than we are seeing here. In fact here is some examples of just that.

0-100km/h
BMW E92 M3: 4.5s (AUTO-Italian Mag)
BMW E92 M3: 4.8s (Sportauto)
BMW E90 M3: 5.0s (Autozeitung)

0-160km/h
BMW E92 M3: 10.2s (AMS)
BMW E92 M3: 10.6s (AM&S)

 

[martinbo]

Ai caramba. I'm getting too old for this...

footie, come on, from a 38 year old - how mature are you really? Your choice of words...

You claim to state the facts. Ok, so Autozeitung deemed the RS5 to be a better car than the 911 Carrera S. Those are the facts. Instead, you put out a statement like this:

It's defeated the best DD sportscar in the world, now roll on the tests against the C63 and M3, it's true rivals.

You then in the post above go on to use the word "victorious".

"Defeated". "Victorious". "Chosen as the winner..." All a bit too Trump Cards for me. You're punting Audi in a propagandist - as opposed to an objective - manner.

Me declaring what car I aspire to own gives you no insight whatsoever into how I conduct myself on this forum. I don't stoop to the levels you imply "if the shoe was on the other foot". I don't get involved in that way on this forum. It's not a competition.

Anyhow, according to you here are the facts that we ought to put up as a headline on the forum main page:

"Audi RS5 defeats Porsche 911 Carrera S"

Extra extra, read all about it!

Preposterous.

 

[footie]

Ai caramba. I'm getting too old for this...

footie, come on, from a 38 year old - how mature are you really? Your choice of words...

Martin, as Global Mod you are sure to know my age which isn't 38. Plus the way you are chosing your words in this reply does appear to be personal which is not how I was intenting my remarks towards you to be, so sorry if that is how you are viewing them.

You claim to state the facts. Ok, so Autozeitung deemed the RS5 to be a better car than the 911 Carrera S. Those are the facts. Instead, you put out a statement like this:

You then in the post above go on to use the word "victorious".

"Defeated". "Victorious". "Chosen as the winner..." All a bit too Trump Cards for me. You're punting Audi in a propagandist - as opposed to an objective - manner.

Anyhow, according to you here are the facts that we ought to put up as a headline on the forum main page:

"Audi RS5 defeats Porsche 911 Carrera S"

Extra extra, read all about it!

Preposterous.

OK my claiming the Carrera as the best DD sportscar is probably a stretch for some but not for others. In my defence it does win most of these so-called comparison tests which was why I felt it's quite news worthy when the RS5 actually beat it. (Chosing my words wisely here )

Me declaring what car I aspire to own gives you no insight whatsoever into how I conduct myself on this forum. I don't stoop to the levels you imply "if the shoe was on the other foot". I don't get involved in that way on this forum. It's not a competition.

I am not denying that I like Quattros, heck I now own one again which must be my fifth or sixth one, but your comments implied that to you the M3 is superior than the RS5, that isn't something I have a problem with so why would you have a problem with me rating the RS5 better?

OK, I apologize for placing you in that group, but you can't deny that there is a hell of a lot of ones that wouldn't be complaining if my comments were about the M3 beating the Carrera.

 

[martinbo]

^ It was ambiguous - I was saying that I am 38.

For the rest, fair enough. For the record, I have never implied that the M3 is superior to the RS5. How can it be? Based on what criteria? The only thing I have said is that it is a personal favourite of mine because it has particular attributes that appeal to me.

Technically, I'm very impressed with the RS5. That's the objective in me.
Emotionally, it doesn't even scratch the surface. That's the subjective in me.

Does this in any way give me license to declare one superior to the other? Of course not.

Edit: I have no problem with you saying that you feel that the RS5 is the superior machine. I can't. It's your right to an opinion.
It's how you go about saying it is what I take exception to. It's sensationalist. You may as well just put in your auto-sig "All hail the Audi RS5, it's the greatest thing on four wheels". Because that's perception you're creating around yourself.

 

[footie]

^ Took your advice.

 

[DOMINUS]

I love Martinbo and Footie (in a manly way of course). You guys always spice up the forum lol.

Well does anyone have this article available to post on the forum? If the RS5 won I'd like to see why they felt that way. That just goes to show that 0- whatever km/h isn't the be all and end all. Surely the Porsche based on those numbers would walk on the RS5. Maybe the practicality or comfort in the RS5 pushed it ahead of the Porsche. Either way a win is a win but honestly it's not the win we want to hear. These are serious performance cars and we want the winner to win in performance not because of comfort or iPod or whatever.

I still have my eye on the RS5 though. Just waiting for M3/C63/IS-F comparo.

 

[Sunny]

M3 won against GTR and 911 turbo (2008 BMW M3 vs. 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo - Comparison Tests), but even a M3 fan like me won't try and spin it like it's a better sports car than either just cause it won a comparison. It is not. Probably something similar, or even worse where RS5 won cause of some stupid shit like more rear leg room or boot space. At least M3 won cause it was more fun car to drive, doubt that holds true for RS5 vs Carrera S. Any way looking forward to reading it.

 

[DOMINUS]

This article is probably the first comparo test with the RS5 and obviously there'll be more. As more and more tests come out, we'll be able to better tell which magazines are being straight up with us, who the fanboys are and who the bashers are. We can't hold the numbers as golden because of different conditions at the time of testing but we'll have a general picture afterthe dust settles.

 

[Sunny]

Emve posted the article here or at least part of it. And guess what it won mostly cause of stuff like space and comfort.

 

[footie]

I love Martinbo and Footie (in a manly way of course). You guys always spice up the forum lol.

Well does anyone have this article available to post on the forum? If the RS5 won I'd like to see why they felt that way. That just goes to show that 0- whatever km/h isn't the be all and end all. Surely the Porsche based on those numbers would walk on the RS5. Maybe the practicality or comfort in the RS5 pushed it ahead of the Porsche. Either way a win is a win but honestly it's not the win we want to hear. These are serious performance cars and we want the winner to win in performance not because of comfort or iPod or whatever.

I still have my eye on the RS5 though. Just waiting for M3/C63/IS-F comparo.

You opinion on why the Audi won is exactly the same as mine, but based on the limited information we had and the fact that testing two hi-performance coupes meant that performance must hold a strong bearing on the overall outcome and the fact that on all out acceleration the Carrera comfortably won, meaning that on the other performance discipline the margin between the two must have been incredibly close, close enough for the elements like you listed (comfort, practicality, etc) to swing the win in the RS5's favour.

M3 won against GTR and 911 turbo (2008 BMW M3 vs. 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo - Comparison Tests), but even a M3 fan like me won't try and spin it like it's a better sports car than either just cause it won a comparison. It is not. Probably something similar, or even worse where RS5 won cause of some stupid shit like more rear leg room or boot space. At least M3 won cause it was more fun car to drive, doubt that holds true for RS5 vs Carrera S. Any way looking forward to reading it.

So you believe the M3 to be that much better in the entertainment department than the RS5, sure, even I would go along with that but to believe that the M3 is somehow superior in this than the 997turbo is something that I can't agree with. Even the normal Carrera is better than an M3 in my opinion, but I doubt the gap is huge.

This article is probably the first comparo test with the RS5 and obviously there'll be more. As more and more tests come out, we'll be able to better tell which magazines are being straight up with us, who the fanboys are and who the bashers are. We can't hold the numbers as golden because of different conditions at the time of testing but we'll have a general picture afterthe dust settles.

I agree, it is but only one comparison test and against a foe that in my opinion isn't a direct competitor, you are also right that numbers tell very little, other than which is quicker. So like you I am waiting patiently for a few comparisons between the main rivals to see whether or not this car is the fail that so many ### diehards believe it to be.

Oh how anyone could continue to call this car a fail after this result is beyond me.

 

[Mr Robert]

Ah, so, it was an automatic and 4WD Porsche. In that case, I have a less hard time understanding the result.

Edit:
It was not a 4WD model. I have changed the topic of the thread. Still, Porsche for me - if comfort and space were priorities, I would kill myself (or, at least consider my automitive life over).

 

[Sunny]

So you believe the M3 to be that much better in the entertainment department than the RS5, sure, even I would go along with that but to believe that the M3 is somehow superior in this than the 997turbo is something that I can't agree with. Even the normal Carrera is better than an M3 in my opinion, but I doubt the gap is huge.

I didn't say that, the review said that. But I don't find it beyond the realm of possibility why some journalist finds a RWD NA powered M3 more entertaining than a AWD turbo charged 911 Turbo. Replace the 911 turbo with a 911 Carrera S and M3 would probably loose in the entertainment factor too.

I agree, it is but only one comparison test and against a foe that in my opinion isn't a direct competitor, you are also right that numbers tell very little, other than which is quicker. So like you I am waiting patiently for a few comparisons between the main rivals to see whether or not this car is the fail that so many ### diehards believe it to be.

Oh how anyone could continue to call this car a fail after this result is beyond me.

Can you exactly point out who called the RS5 a 'fail'. Stop putting up strawman arguments.

 

[footie]

Can you exactly point out who called the RS5 a 'fail'. Stop putting up strawman arguments.

Apologizes, I was confusing this forum with that of f#cking bummer post. There is quite a few over there with that very opinion.

 

[Poverty]

RS5, M3 and GTR, all 3 of them are flawed, some more than others, but alot of good marketing from the manufacturers non the less to shift them and make people think they are driving something super special.

RS5 isnt worthy the money, M3 not quick enough or unique enough interior for the money, and the GTR just has the whole world fooled. Affordable sports car? Hardly, yearly running costs of the GTR in the UK costs 80% more than that of the 911 turbo for example.

I eagerly await 2015 when audi claim they will reduce vehicle weight dramatically by around 300kg, then we will see the return of truley great cars by the mass market manufacturer drones.

 

[DOMINUS]

RS5, M3 and GTR, all 3 of them are flawed, some more than others, but alot of good marketing from the manufacturers non the less to shift them and make people think they are driving something super special.

RS5 isnt worthy the money, M3 not quick enough or unique enough interior for the money, and the GTR just has the whole world fooled. Affordable sports car? Hardly, yearly running costs of the GTR in the UK costs 80% more than that of the 911 turbo for example.

I eagerly await 2015 when audi claim they will reduce vehicle weight dramatically by around 300kg, then we will see the return of truley great cars by the mass market manufacturer drones.

Damn Poverty you're really giving the car makers a tongue lashing there. Cars really have put on weight and government is to blame for that. The stricter and stricter they get with all the requirements need to pass inspection, the heavier the cars will become. Hopefully like you say in 2015 we'll see a huge change in design.

 

[Mr Robert]

Weight is the next thing to look at. Cars in general are a couple of 100 kgs too heavy. No question. But for the sake of safety, heavy cars must be punished off the streets.

 

[DOMINUS]

I must say though that I find my M3's cabin a comfortable place to be in and if the RS5's cabin is a step up plus the fact that it "MAY" edge out the M3 performance-wise, I'll take it. It will be interesting to see though because te RS5 and the M3 have relatively the same space on the interior give or take a few inches here and there. So the faults in the Porsche will be a non issue in the M3 vs RS5 test. Performance will probably be the deciding factor afterall.

 

[Mr Robert]

It should be faster than the M3 in most respects. The only area where the M3 may have the edge is, as always, the soft, hard to measure one.