Hot! All kind of sales Audi / BMW / Mercedes

[Matski]

@Matski
How ?
You have here 2017 and 2016 January US sales :
http://carsalesbase.com/us-sales-january-2017-models/
And globally, which model then they selling in January 2016 ?
New 7er ( G11 ) wasn't available in January 2016.

Can't remember the US launch specifics but the G 7er was on sale in November 2015 if I recall correctly.

 

[WAND]

@Matski
Yes, you are right. So it's difference between G11 2016 and 2017 January.

 

[tomazino]

@tomazino

Where did you get that chart? looks like its from an investor presentation but I didn't see anything yet for this year?

Yes, it is from investor presentation:

https://www.bmwgroup.com/content/da...sentation/BMW_Group_Investor_Presentation.pdf

 

[SCOTT27]

Don't forget. The 7er in core markets equal one model against all S-Klasse models that are grouped into one.

 

[Rolf]

Just wait till the FL S-class arrives in April then the sales will increase again.

@WAND do you have the sales figure breakdown per model for Mercedes for Jan 2017?

 

[WAND]

@Rolf
There are no such details yet, but here are some data :

"The first year of full availability for the new E-Class started with a new sales record: 29,963 Saloons and Estates were handed over to customers worldwide in January, representing an increase of nearly 75% compared with the prior-year month.

The SUVs continue to contribute to the growth of Mercedes-Benz. Strong demand in January resulted in sales of 65,004, a new sales record for the first month of the year (+20.5%).

The dream cars from Mercedes-Benz started the year 2017 with strong growth in unit sales. In January, sales increased by 51.3% with 10,894 Roadsters, Cabriolets and Coupés handed over to customers worldwide. This year, the dream-car family will be joined by the new E-Class Cabriolet. And the new E-Class Coupé has been rolling off the assembly line in Bremen since January; it will be in the showrooms as of March."


http://media.daimler.com/marsMediaS...U2NhbGVJbmRleD0wJnJvd0NvdW50c0luZGV4PTU!&rs=1

 

[Star&Car]

Which performance brand sells best?

With 100,000 units sold, AMG has been richly presented for its 50th birthday and the competition is far behind.

The M numbers included M performance models,right?

 

[WAND]

The M numbers included M performance models,right?

Yes.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

MB's turn around in China has been nothing short of stunning.

Well done Mercedes. I hope your recent de-contenting and cheapening of your cars doesn't come back to bite you in the bum like it did in the early 00's.

Does anyone know if the recent turmoil in BMW's design department is linked to sales?

I suspect BMW will begin to ramp up over the next 12-36 months as the new products start coming in.

It's hard to see how Audi is going to keep pace with MB and BMW as they don't have any big hitters on the horizon.

16 I8's for BMW in Germany for January. That's pretty dismal.

 

[HUTSUTAo]

Is there a place to see the best selling car in UK beyond the top 10?






Audi sold 51000 cars in China in january 2017.

China luxury car sales
1. Mercedes-58000
2. Audi-51000
3. BMW-50000
4. Cadillac-18011
5. Jaguar LR-13947
6. Lexus-9400
7. VOLVO-8362

Audi Sales in China fell by 35.3% to 35,181 cars. In the last month, Audi established a long-term, strategic growth plan for the coming decade together with its Chinese partner FAW. Against this background the Chinese Audi dealers had planned a restrained business volume at the start of the year. This temporary development in China also affected the global sales balance: Worldwide deliveries fell by 13.5 percent compared with the record-breaking figures for the prior-year month.


Audi says January sales down 13.5 pct at 124000 deliveries

BMW sales ... Mind 5-series (on of the most mass-volume BMW models) is in the transition phase. Also in China, where 5-series L still has to be introduced and put on sale. Till then the old, outgoing model will be available. 1er Sedan has just been introduced to Chinese market, and so was the X1L.

BMW suffers from aging line up ... MB introduced new C, E, GLC recently, while BMW only introduced a new X1, and 5er sedan has started to roll out. And still waiting for X3 & 3er to come. Aging 3er, X3, and 5er for another year in China, will have hard times there. 1er Sedan & X1L will have to perform brilliantly to close the sales gap.

And what hurts BMW as well: very ambitious pricing (IMHO too ambitious). And in many cases people are not willing to pay as much for the brand name only. Especially when perceived interior quality of outgoing models is sub par compared to the closest rivals.

No doubt MB has been on fire recently. They have a fresh & exciting models in the offering. Perceived quality is superb - something BMW still lacks a lot in the outgoing models.

Regarding dull designs ... They do sell. Even 7er does sell well. Sure not in numbers of S-class but in record numbers for 7er though.

So, MB is doing everything well at the time being, therefore their lead is well deserved. As you can see: things can change. BMW enjoyed a decade of being #1 - because they did things better then MB: rolling out new models faster, increasing production facilities faster, building sales network faster etc. And now MB has finally caught up, and even overtook BMW. Good times for customers. And don't forget the others: Audi, Lexus, Jaguar, Porsche, Cadillac, Tesla, even Alfa Romeo etc. Competition is really though!

The sales of the outgoing 5 series has been very high in China as they are giving exceptionally high discount on these cars

 

[WAND]

^ Wow, that is about 54,5k less comapred to the Merc in single month !
And about 19,5k less than BMW.
Merc 178,467
BMW 143,553
Audi 124,000

 

[Serpens]

It's hard to see how Audi is going to keep pace with MB and BMW as they don't have any big hitters on the horizon.

I'd consider the new Q5 to be a big hitter.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

True. I forgot about the Q5. I believe the Q5 is the highest selling vehicle in its class globally. Not sure if the GLC has displaced it.

 

[HUTSUTAo]

True. I forgot about the Q5. I believe the Q5 is the highest selling vehicle in its class globally. Not sure if the GLC has displaced it.

I guess not. The glc faced much supply issues in 2016 and the Peak year for the glc should be 2017

 

[Matski]

BMW sales ... Mind 5-series (on of the most mass-volume BMW models) is in the transition phase. Also in China, where 5-series L still has to be introduced and put on sale. Till then the old, outgoing model will be available. 1er Sedan has just been introduced to Chinese market, and so was the X1L.

BMW suffers from aging line up ... MB introduced new C, E, GLC recently, while BMW only introduced a new X1, and 5er sedan has started to roll out. And still waiting for X3 & 3er to come. Aging 3er, X3, and 5er for another year in China, will have hard times there. 1er Sedan & X1L will have to perform brilliantly to close the sales gap.

Thought I'd try and visualise this a little better... so I made a chart...

How much of BMW's sales volume the series represents (Y-axis), vs. how far through it's life it is (on the X-axis), therefore the higher the point the more important the model, and the further right it is, the older it is. The Red area obviously represents the point at which the models are closer to end of life than being "new".

Now, this isn't 100% accurate, since the series are grouped together as per tha Feb '17 investor report, and not all variants were introduced at the same time... so I've gone for year of launch, and a 7 year life-span (4 for the X4), then turned it into a percentage... but... you get the gist...

Ultimately, given that the G30 is only hitting the market now... we can see that recent sales figures are a reflection of 71% of BMW's volume being more than half-way through it's life cycle.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

For me is interesting how and why BMW lost its lead to MB, so I tried to figure it out for myself. And the big reason for me is MINI. We've been told that it is a huge success, that it brings new customers to the group and so on. But such a project involves huge amount of resources - engineers, production facilities etc. I remember reading that BMW was hoping to break even somewhere around the end of the lifecycle of the second generation. So for those 14 years, if all those resources were poured into the core brand they would generated not only bigger profits but also better market position for BMW.
Then the third generation came. To make it profitable (the other opportunity is just to cease to exist) BMW had to achieve economies of scale and they started diluting the BMW brand. One may say that the new X1 sales better than the old RWD based one, but for me the reason is not the switch to FWD platform, but better design appealing to more people. I have never read a direct comparison of the new one and the old one. I bet that the old one is much better (of course its design is its biggest drawback). For sure, the technology of the drivetrain of the old one is superior to the new one and if only they had made this design mated to the old technology, the car would be even a bigger hit. So, BMW is forces to use its FWD technology, because it already invested huge amounts of money in it. I don't want to mention anything about 2AT, but having the future 1 series in FWD is just for the reason to keep MINI alive.
And now, the biggest problem is coming, one that no one could predict, the Brexit. It will make all MINI products noncompetitive, the margins will go into the pit and BMW will be left with heavy problems to solve.
This is just my opinion

 

[Matski]

For me is interesting how and why BMW lost its lead to MB, so I tried to figure it out for myself. And the big reason for me is MINI. We've been told that it is a huge success, that it brings new customers to the group and so on. But such a project involves huge amount of resources - engineers, production facilities etc. I remember reading that BMW was hoping to break even somewhere around the end of the lifecycle of the second generation. So for those 14 years, if all those resources were poured into the core brand they would generated not only bigger profits but also better market position for BMW.
Then the third generation came. To make it profitable (the other opportunity is just to cease to exist) BMW had to achieve economies of scale and they started diluting the BMW brand. One may say that the new X1 sales better than the old RWD based one, but for me the reason is not the switch to FWD platform, but better design appealing to more people. I have never read a direct comparison of the new one and the old one. I bet that the old one is much better (of course its design is its biggest drawback). For sure, the technology of the drivetrain of the old one is superior to the new one and if only they had made this design mated to the old technology, the car would be even a bigger hit. So, BMW is forces to use its FWD technology, because it already invested huge amounts of money in it. I don't want to mention anything about 2AT, but having the future 1 series in FWD is just for the reason to keep MINI alive.
And now, the biggest problem is coming, one that no one could predict, the Brexit. It will make all MINI products noncompetitive, the margins will go into the pit and BMW will be left with heavy problems to solve.
This is just my opinion

I disagree with most of your conclusions, but you're right that Mini was not projected to have returned it's initial investment till gen 3, but the fact is, that investment is now paying off.

Long term growth requires investment, BMW could have invested those resources into its core models, but where would the growth be? They're not going to start selling double the number of 3 series because they invested more in it, the target market is only so big. And yes they could have invested in niche top end models earlier, but they won't show the kind of unit growth required to make headlines.

In developing the Mini brand BMW now have an additional 300-350,000 sales per year, they have economy of scale on a platform which allows BMW to increase its own brand sales, whilst being profitable, in a way they couldn't do otherwise. Thats 350,000 sales that didn't go to Daimler, VWAG, FCA, Ford, Toyota, Peugeot-Citroen, Renault-Nissan or Honda.

You might not like FWD, but BMW could not show significant growth without using it. They have to have a sub 3 series platform on which to provide the large volume "cheap" end of the market, and the more models they can spread it across the better. This is where the higher volume exists.

As for Brexit, our currency has dropped, so BMW may well make more money, not less - the risk is in tariffs and taxes, but we're potentially a couple of years off this, and it might not happen. Mini is not the only risk in that scenario either, Rolls-Royce would suffer as would the Hams Hall engine plant which supplies the BMW Group. Add to that, Mini is not solely reliant on the UK for production as variants are also made my Magna in Austria and VDL Nedcar in the Netherlands.

I respect your opinion to not like how BMW is doing things, I enjoy my RWD 1-er -- but the fact is your first question was how and why they lost the sales lead to Mercedes... and I don't see how not having Mini and removing FWD architecture would allow BMW to grow faster.

 

[W201]

For me is interesting how and why BMW lost its lead to MB, so I tried to figure it out for myself.

It's twofold:

1. MB kept it's momentum, strenghtening their portfolio
2. BMW's portfolio is not weak, but it is at the end of the life cycle (i.e. most of their cars are more than 2 years on the market).

Also, there were few missteps by the Bimmer:
1. BMW i was enormously expensive project - it is now apparent that i3 and i8 came too soon. All those resources could be used to further develop their more conventional cars.
2. Obviously they could've expanded their 7 Series family - by offering the Coupe version of it, and perhaps some kind of MercBach competitor.

However, as a car-bore, I would prefer BMW Group has overlapped MINI and BMW in a different way:
1. Current 1 Series should be 'upgraded' to 2 series - so you would have a Golf competitor with a RWD, and the entire range would still be quintessential BMW. (The Hatch, The Coupe, the Cabrio, The GranCoupe). The range should be based on the 3 Series, thus helping it achieve even larger economy of scale.
2. 2GT, 2AT, X1, should all become part of the 1 Series range, plus the BMW's equivalent of the Audi's A1 (using MINI as a basis), and not to forget the 1 Sedan i.e. A3 Sedan's competitor.

So, 1 Series range would attack the compact and practical segments of the market (whilst helping MINI's economy of scale), and 2 Series range would keep the car-bores happy, whilst helping BMW's economy of scale.

 

[Matski]

Also, there were few missteps by the Bimmer:
1. BMW i was enormously expensive project - it is now apparent that i3 and i8 came too soon. All those resources could be used to further develop their more conventional cars.

Again, as with my point about Mini above, the investment wouldn't necessarily have translated as a proportional increase in unit sales of existing models, so how much of a difference would it really make? I think it's also fair to say that the investment in BMW-i has actually funneled through into their core offerings anyway with some of the R & D being relevant to the 225xe, 330e, X5 40e, 740e, Mini Countrman E, and forthcoming 530e... along with some of the savings gained in mass production of Carbon Fibre that has allowed them to partner with Toyota to make a cost effective sportscar platform for the Z4/Supra.

The i3 and i8 might be the cars people associate with BMW-i, but as this chart from the latest IP shows... i-Performance is working quite well for BMW.

2. Obviously they could've expanded their 7 Series family - by offering the Coupe version of it, and perhaps some kind of MercBach competitor.

CLA, G, GLS, SL and V are volume sellers that BMW has not had an answer for either, and I wouldn't be surprised if the AMG GT was starting to add some worthwhile volume to the totals either.

Conversely, Mercedes don't have a 3dr A Class, or true Coupe/Cabriolet in the A/B class. They don't have an answer for any of the BMW GT badged cars (2, 3 or 5), or the 4-er Gran Coupe... or the i3, or the i8 (directly at least).

.. so both have areas in which they can expand (and are..) their portfolio.

However, as a car-bore, I would prefer BMW Group has overlapped MINI and BMW in a different way:
1. Current 1 Series should be 'upgraded' to 2 series - so you would have a Golf competitor with a RWD, and the entire range would still be quintessential BMW. (The Hatch, The Coupe, the Cabrio, The GranCoupe). The range should be based on the 3 Series, thus helping it achieve even larger economy of scale.
2. 2GT, 2AT, X1, should all become part of the 1 Series range, plus the BMW's equivalent of the Audi's A1 (using MINI as a basis), and not to forget the 1 Sedan i.e. A3 Sedan's competitor.

So, 1 Series range would attack the compact and practical segments of the market (whilst helping MINI's economy of scale), and 2 Series range would keep the car-bores happy, whilst helping BMW's economy of scale.

I agree, this would have been very sensible, to this day the only reason I can imagine why the 2AT and GT are 2-ers, is because the B-Class is a B-Class and not an A-Class.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

For me BMW i is a halo brand and it contributes a lot to the BMW brand and it is worth every single penny. But with MINI the case is just the opposite. Mini is not bringing a lot to the BMW brand but BMW has to sacrifice some heritage to keep MINI profitable