Who's gonna win 2013? Audi/BMW/MB

[MAJESTIC]

Im more interested in who of the 3 made most money 2012

Bingo..... I want to see the profitability, not mere sales.

P.S. I know BMW will take 2013, without a doubt. They deserve it, as they are doing all things right.

 

[Zafiro]

I really dont care about sales or profit but since I dont have any stocks or make money depending on how much the carmaker makes then sales is more intresting to read about.

 

[LaArtist]

Well its all about the money to me..even though i do not own stocks..
Hell if MB makes the least cars but the most profit,, i respect that ..thats not easy to do

 

[Zafiro]

I'm starting to become Opel fan so I hope in the future, Opel sell more cars and make better profit than BMW/Audi,MB

 

[LaArtist]

^No they do not..they sold 1.2 million cars roughly in 2011 i think BMW sold more

Revenue Opel: 9.994 billion euros (2010)
Revenue Daimler: 106.54 billion euros (2011)
Revenue BMW: 68.83 billion euros ( 2011)

So yeah not even close

But i get your point, but here we do only talk about Audi,BMW and Mercedes

 

[K-A]

Well its all about the money to me..even though i do not own stocks..
Hell if MB makes the least cars but the most profit,, i respect that ..thats not easy to do

There's no way. Someone posted here last year that M-B's profit margins are much less than BMW and Audi's, and of course they sell the least cars. Then again, driving them back to back with competing products makes it appear that they invest much less in their cars so maybe lack of R&D keeps their profits up.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

MB's profitability per vehicle is significantly less than Audi and BMW. Around 8% I believe compared to 10% and 11% respectively. This is likely due to a multitude of factors, one of which includes manufacturing efficiency. In 2007 it was reported that MB was at least 10 years behind BMW in terms of manufacturing efficiency as a result of Chrysler's drain on MB's resources. It takes time and money to make up this lost ground.

So KA now MB's cars are so inferior to Audi and BMW because they don't spend as much money on R&D? Please kindly support this conjecture with substantiated data. I'd love to see where you have found figures of each companies R&D budgets over the last 5 years to support this claim.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

K-A, i would highly recommend that you express your BMW 5er vs. M-B E-Klasse arguments within the Internal Combustion. That would be more appropriate.

Mods, you might need to start cleaning this thread very soon. Looks like it'll get silly again.

 

[Deleted member 25]

^No they do not..they sold 1.2 million cars roughly in 2011 i think BMW sold more

Revenue Opel: 9.994 billion euros (2010)
Revenue Daimler: 106.54 billion euros (2011)
Revenue BMW: 68.83 billion euros ( 2011)

So yeah not even close

But i get your point, but here we do only talk about Audi,BMW and Mercedes

That's revenue not profit, BMW has by far the best margin 11.8% pre tax.

 

[LaArtist]

Yes hence writing revenue as I had no profits for Opel.

Profit 2011
Daimler: 5.667 billion euro
BMW: 4.881 billion euro

 

[Wolfgang]

Agreed, the A-Class may help. Mind, Audi is already far ahead of Mercedes in China, with 405.838 sold in 2012 versus 196.211 and plans an increase to 700.000 by 2015. MB plans around 300.000 there by 2015 according to a presentation in 2011.

MB confirmed 2015 plans. And will start producing the B-Class in Beijing?



Daimler AG's CEO Zetsche: We'll hike Mercedes sales 50% by '15.

Daimler AG CEO Dieter Zetsche vowed to raise Mercedes-Benz China sales 50 percent to 300,000 units by 2015, part of his campaign to revive stalled sales in the fast-growing market.

At Daimler's annual press conference in Stuttgart, Zetsche said two-thirds of Mercedes vehicles sold in China in 2015 will be produced there too.

Daimler soon will launch an engine plant in Beijing, and will expand Chinese production of its C-class sedan, long-wheelbase E-class sedan, and its GLK crossover. Likewise, Mercedes-Benz will start producing its compact B-class cars in China.

To sell those cars, Mercedes-Benz will add 50 new dealerships each year -- mostly in China's interior cities.

Zetsche announced the turnaround plan after Mercedes-Benz sales in China last year rose only 2 percent to 196,200 units. By contrast, BMW group sales jumped 40 percent to 326,400 units, while segment leader Audi's sales soared 30 percent to 405,800 vehicles.

In December, Daimler merged its Chinese sales operations for imported and locally produced Mercedes cars, and it named Hubertus Troska to the management board with responsibility for China, a new position.

Earlier this month the company announced that it would acquire a 12-percent stake in BAIC Motors Inc., its Chinese joint venture partner, and would gain two seats on that company's board of directors.

"These changes will not have obvious effects overnight, but they will start to make a positive impact over the course of this year," Zetsche said.

http://hkcarworld.com/news/daimler-ags-ceo-zetsche-well-hike-mercedes-sales-50-15

 

[Levi68]

Am I the only one to dislike this sales & profit race? I know it is a business and everything but I personally don't like it. Before you had a premium to stand OUT, now you must have a premium to be IN. Though the I'm in for a 2 Series Coupé/ 4 Series GranCoupé, I'm looking forward to something different (Lexus, Alfa, Maserati).


But if to talk about the success race, BMW is still better placed right now and it will continue if they don't fall a sleep or if they keep their step ahead and anticipate the rivals strategy and actions. Mercedes might also be back but in the longer term. Though I get their new strategy which looks to be good, I'm not convinced by the products themselves. As for VAG, in the long-term I see some problems arising, unless they already have good plans we don't know (ex: NSF,MQB, MLB, MSB, MSS platforms). But the company is just too big and is lately not enough innovative.

I think an important key to worldwide success is to have nearly a subdivision of the three continents (North America, Europe, Asia, not sure how is the situation in South America and South Africa). I don't have any detailed information and am too lazy to search, but that is what BMW has done and continues doing. If BMW manages to catch up Audi in China and keeps its lead in America, then BMW will stay on the top for a long time. It will not be difficult to bring all the fancy high-end models (8er, Z8, M10,etc) once the they have a clear lead.

 

[Wolfgang]

Am I the only one to dislike this sales & profit race?

Not so interested either, and it actually appears to me that MB is not getting overly carried away with it either, which is a good thing, considering Dieter Zetsche just confirmed the projection about sales in China first made about 3 years ago, around May of 2010 or so, at the Mercedes-Benz Day in China. What I find more enticing is the ongoing complete realignment of Mercedes production network, which was disclosed around the same time, with an implied focus on quality, heritage and brand. Suspect Sindelfingen may be tasked to produce the production tools for the other plants in the network.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Dear master Wolf, do you now if there are any plants for the Belo Horizonte, Brazil plant to produce cars?

 

[Wolfgang]

No car plans AFAIK, Master Gianclaudio, as the plant was converted to Accelo and Actros.

http://www.brasilcaminhoneiro.com.b...alcanca-marca-de-10-000-caminhoes-produzidos/

 

[Levi68]

South America is the next (later than announced) emerging market.

 

[Human]

Who's gonna win 2013? Audi/BMW/MB

BMW again...



INVESTOR PRESENTATION - BMW GROUP, January 2013

Rather interesting research and facts

Link: www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_prod/d/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/investor_relations/_pdf/InvestorPresent_January_2013.pdf

 

[JHF]

Hope so Audi.

http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/02/14/report-audi-surpassed-bmw-in-sales-last-month/

 

[mini_cooper4]

Hope so Audi.

http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/02/14/report-audi-surpassed-bmw-in-sales-last-month/

From the link you posted:

According to Analyst Christian Ludwig,

Audi might take the lead in one month or another this year because of their strong market position in China, the main growth market, but for the full year, I still expect BMW to be ahead. BMW has some product advantages, as they are rolling out the 3-Series GT and the new 4-Series in the volume segment this year.

​

 

[Levi68]

Looks like only VAG (Audi) is doing a sales race, because for them that is the only way to prove something. But what can you prove when the largest part of the population has no opinion?