What will happen to the CSL brand?

[Mr Robert]

^ Yeah south, I agree completely. Ultimately it boils down to this:

BMW M3 CSL - the people who want it aren't the people who will buy it.

That is why I was interested in knowing what kind of margins BMW actually had on those 1,400 cars they actually sold. It is also interesting to know how many examples BMW had planned to sell compared to those 1,400 cars.

 

[Mr Robert]

In this thread we could discuss what might happen, what we want to happen and what will not happen regarding the famed CSL badge from BMW.

 

[martinbo]

Well first of all - it was only a badge. Not a brand.

M is brand. But the CSL moniker is a generally misunderstood peculiarity.

 

[Mr Robert]

Well first of all - it was only a badge. Not a brand.

M is brand. But the CSL moniker is a generally misunderstood peculiarity.

In a sense, I agree. On the other hand, M was only perceived as a badge in the beginning. Even if it is a division of its own. I think it is possible that the CSL badge will become more of a brand.

The first CSL was the 3.0 CSL based on the E9. There was also a brief run of E36 CSL if im not mistaken. The E46 CSL is maybe most known.

But lets rename the thread.

 

[martinbo]

Well no, let's not rename this thread because the concept of it being a brand in itself is a worthy discussion point.

 

[Mr Robert]

Yes, it could actually go the same way M did. I guess with the way M moves mainstream for both good and bad, something is bound to be done... the Super Sport concept is maybe a step on the way?

 

[Mr Robert]

Just a little inspiration:

 

[Zafiro]

I knew a guy who owned a M3 E46 CSL. I never drove the car but he gave me a ride in his CSL a few times. I still remember it, one of my best car memories. The thin seats, the extremly light doors, engine sound, the memory is still in my head.
BMW are stupid if they give up the idea about a new CSL. Doesnt matter if there is no market but they need to build it anyway. CLS is a part of BMW's heritage.

 

[coolraoul]

The CLS didn't show untill the end of the e46 M3's lifespan.

You can be sure that the e92 will be the same, a CSL will be released just before the end of the model, to end with a bang.

 

[Mr Robert]

That car is such a great thaught in a wonderfull package, delivered in an extraordinary way!

 

[Mr Robert]

The CLS didn't show untill the end of the e46 M3's lifespan.

You can be sure that the e92 will be the same, a CSL will be released just before the end of the model, to end with a bang.

That would be nice.

The E46 CSL came around about the middle of the M3 E46's life (as MY 2003 with 2001 being the first MY and 2006 the last).

Let's hope for a late edition this time. However, I don't think they will make one from the current verison of the M3.

 

[Sunny]

What sucks is BMW doesn't seem to realize that 'M3' is probably the second strongest sports car brand after '911' worldwide ('Corvette' or 'GTR' may be stronger in there local markets). If I had any say in things at Munich, I would use that and develop M3 into an entire to go against the 911. A M3 CS against 911S, a M3 CSL to go against the GT3 and a M3 GT to go against the Turbo. They already cover the the base 911 and cabrio.

 

[Mr Robert]

What sucks is BMW doesn't seem to realize that 'M3' is probably the second strongest sports car brand after '911' worldwide ('Corvette' or 'GTR' may be stronger in there local markets). If I had any say in things at Munich, I would use that and develop M3 into an entire to go against the 911. A M3 CS against 911S, a M3 CSL to go against the GT3 and a M3 GT to go against the Turbo. They already cover the the base 911 and cabrio.

I think they realize, they simply does not have the power to do it.

The last CSL competed very well with the Porsche GT3 and the Ferrari 360 CS, at a very competitive price. But BMW does not think that people will pay for it this time. I think they will. People are paying for the GT-R and the Z06, aren't they? Those models compete with Porsche and they are not regarded as "exclusive enough", just like BMW.

I think the push towards the Super Sport might prove that there is a market for real sportscars from BMW and if I'm right, BMW might dare to get up in the saddle again.

 

[south]

People are paying for the GT-R and the Z06, aren't they?

I'm not sure if people in Europe are paying for the Corvette. In 2008, only 1,300 Corvettes (standard model and Z06 combined) were exported to Europe. With the CSL not being feasible/reasonable to be sold in the USA the strongest market for such a car is missing.

There's one thing we can be sure about. If an CSL version were successful (i.e. profitable), they would build it.


Best regards,
south

 

[Mr Robert]

So, this is the latest:

Q:Is the 1er SuperSport CSL really planned or also "under consideration"?
A:Yes , there will be a regular performance model and a stripped out lightweight concept , M cars in all but name.

This is good news. Maybe it will not be branded "CSL" as it will not be branded "M" (a label now reserved for cars less sporty).

 

[AdvEvo]

I really miss the special feel what the CSL had.

When you open the doors see all the carbon and sit down into the fantastic semi race seat. That feel of the alcantara steering wheel.

Start the car.

The throttle response from the high rev atmo engine. The sound from the airbox.

When you sit in the csl you imagine the open road in front of you which you wil attack later on.

This car is a legend. This is the best car bmw has ever made. It s a car made with passion for enthousiasts.

I really miss this passion when i start my E90 M3. It feels more like a daily driver nothing special.

The miles i drove the CSL were the best bmw miles i have ever experianced.

Let s just hope something special is comming again.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I really miss this passion when i start my E90 M3. It feels more like a daily driver nothing special.

Er, that's because it is a daily driver. A daily driver with one of the greatest engines around at the moment. The CSL was a quasi race car for the road. I really am lost as to why you are comparing it with the E90 M3.

 

[Cashmere]

I have posed the question several times, but never got a response but maybe this time I will:

Why did we not get an M6 CSL? The CSL development on the M6 should have started long before the commencement of the global meltdown. Instead it seems like BMW just weren't bothered at all with this segment and decided to rather develop M badged SUV's. One can not say it's not a lucrative segment, because even down here in Africa, CLK Black Series are a dime dozen and the BLACK surely has done wonders to enhance MB's and AMG's sporty image as well as sales.

Its really sad that the only coupe powered by BMW's most glorious engine ever was not given a chance to blossom the true marvel of its engineering prowess.

My nieghbour who was a die hard BMW enthusiast owned more then 15 differnt BMW's before he finally purchased his M3 CSL. He still maintains that it is the best BMW ever. After owning the CSL for 3 years, BMW didn't have anything to offer as a replacement for his CSL so he upgraded to a Black Series. He loves the BLACK and says he doubts he will ever revert back to a BMW as he no longer perceives the BMW brand to build the same type of enjoyable cars which he fell in love with.

So for people to say CSL's only appeal to fanboys is a bit of a misnomer. In a galaxy not far far away, still remain, many enthusiasts who have the financial poke and wish that BMW would revive the roots that the brand was originally built upon.

 

[SCOTT27]

Why did we not get an M6 CSL? The CSL development on the M6 should have started long before the commencement of the global meltdown. Instead it seems like BMW just weren't bothered at all with this segment and decided to rather develop M badged SUV's. One can not say it's not a lucrative segment, because even down here in Africa, CLK Black Series are a dime dozen and the BLACK surely has done wonders to enhance MB's and AMG's sporty image as well as sales.

Its really sad that the only coupe powered by BMW's most glorious engine ever was not given a chance to blossom the true marvel of its engineering prowess.

This question has been answered before by T. There were plans to do so but in reality there was not much of a difference from the standard M6 Coupe to justify an M6 CSL so the BMW board of managment killed the idea.

 

[Mr Robert]

This question has been answered before by T. There were plans to do so but in reality there was not much of a difference from the standard M6 Coupe to justify an M6 CSL so the BMW board of managment killed the idea.

Which makes perfect sense. There should be some distinct differences between the models. Like in the case of the E46 M3 and the E46 M3 CSL, a slight raise in power and a good cut in weight together with a special suspension and steering.

Question is, will we ever see another CSL, a real one that is, not an SUV with a CF hood and R-tyres.