Vs W213 E-Class and it`s technological implementation vs. The Competition.

[silkeye]

With more gesture controlled commands you are probably not forced to glance away... I mean we don't need to watch where we point our fingers to.

You can use maybe later the sign language for putting commands together.

Or queue them up

The possibilities are obvious

 

[montana]

But, the issue I have is that: GTA's assertion that gesture control is "unsafe eye candy" because you have to take you hand off the wheel. And this assertion is deeply, fundamentally flawed.
Eyes on the road, one hand making a brief gesture is way safer than the briefest glance away. Fact.

Agreed. I don't get why people call it unsafe, honestly. It's like driving a manual - you have to take one hand off the wheel to change gears, all the time. Unsafe? Maybe, but IMO it's more about keeping your attention on the road than the number of hands on the steering wheel. Gesture control allows you to do these things while keeping your attention on the road. Personally I don't see any problem with it.

 

[Gianclaudio]

I don't see gesture control as a one-trick pony for volume control alone. To my mind, gesture control introduces a useful - and configurable - interface mechanism that requires no glancing away from the road ahead for any reason. I use the volume control on my steering wheel as wheel as well as the controls for taking phone calls and - from time to time - I find myself glancing at the instrument display or glancing for a button.

I'm not saying that such split-second actions are inherently unsafe but any activity that can be performed without taking your eyes off the road surely enhances safety. All advanced drivers will recognise that the first step toward driving safety is observation; this is then followed by recognition, followed by decision, followed by control. There is irrefutable proof that even the briefest glance off the road - at an inopportune time - severely decreases reaction time. All schools of advanced driving are proponents of this. In Germany in particular, travelling at higher Autobahn speeds sees reaction time significantly diminished and any glance off the road - however brief - is an increase in risk. With gesture control I would very much appreciate the benefits of not taking my eyes off the road at all. So what if gesture control only provides volume, call handling and a couple of other pre-configurable gestures for now.

Gesture control is in its infancy but the logic and intention behind it is tangible. As soon as more development allows for the configurability of more gestures then holistic integration of gesture control into the modern vehicle interface will garner more acceptance.

But, the issue I have is that: GTA's assertion that gesture control is "unsafe eye candy" because you have to take you hand off the wheel. And this assertion is deeply, fundamentally flawed.
Eyes on the road, one hand making a brief gesture is way safer than the briefest glance away. Fact.

IMHO, both gesture control, and wheel mounted touch pad miss the mark, as a good voice recognition (plus HUD) would be much useful or safer. You wouldn't had to take the hands out of the steering wheel, as per BMW, nor having to scroll and click a thousand times while missing the road ahead, as per new E class. I really wonder why they didn't invest to evolve this technology already quite developed on smartphone....instead of getting all the acoustic for overkill sound systems, for example.

 

[Pagani]

No, I disagree. Mercedes clearly stated that taking your hands off the wheel is a distraction to motor vehicle operation. This is why thay did not opt to use such a system in the new E-Class.
Gesture control is "eye candy" that you can show your passengers what your car can do with you playing around with your fingers. It is a distraction and does not promote basic vehicle operation. There is no real world logic to it at all.

I don't get the point of gesture control in an environment where you are never far from actual touch, like in a car.

 

[klier]

No, I disagree. Mercedes clearly stated that taking your hands off the wheel is a distraction to motor vehicle operation. This is why thay did not opt to use such a system in the new E-Class.
Gesture control is "eye candy" that you can show your passengers what your car can do with you playing around with your fingers. It is a distraction and does not promote basic vehicle operation. There is no real world logic to it at all.

This one is saved on my had drive. We'll get back to it.

But, the issue I have is that: GTA's assertion that gesture control is "unsafe eye candy" because you have to take you hand off the wheel. And this assertion is deeply, fundamentally flawed.
Eyes on the road, one hand making a brief gesture is way safer than the briefest glance away. Fact.

No need to have issues with nonsense.

Agreed. I don't get why people call it unsafe, honestly. It's like driving a manual - you have to take one hand off the wheel to change gears, all the time. Unsafe?

Unsafe? Yes, when you are an MB driver. They don't know how a manual works.

 

[GTA45E]

This thread is about the W213 E-Class vs. the competition and the technology offered.
The W213 E-Class is good enough to be compared to every other flagship car on earth currently offered from other makers. Feel free to compare it`s interior, design and it`s technology to any other hi-volume luxury car on the planet from other makes.

 

[GTA45E]

Can the mods kindly move this entire discussion to the thread:

http://www.germancarforum.com/posts/775987/

 

[LaArtist]

No need to compare, it is miles ahead..

BMW has their slim ugly screens

Audi is nicer, i like the digital screen in the cluster from a design standpoint, but it is compromised by the shape when it comes to being able to present information in a clear and informative matter..

 

[SKY]

I have to say I don´t get quite well these comparissions. I mean, probably the W213 is on par or better than other makers flgships right now. But so it is compared to the W222, and so will the G30 be when compared to the G11.

Compared with BMW and Audi in terms of design? I like MB and BMW interiors way more than the Audi ones. The only exception being the 3er and 1er. Audi´s new interiors, if they end up being like the ones on the concepts, look so spectacular and futuristic. But I am not sure about their usability. I drive a Golf and tend to dislike the touch screen.

Between MB and BMW? Hard to say. MB is stronger than ever but BMW has always produced beautiful designs. I prefer the sfot transition betwee the central console and the central tunnel MB uses with its new designs. I like the round vents and the door panels as well. But the new 7er interior looks so good as well.

I will have to wait a couple of years to decide. I loved the current 6er interior and after a few years started thinking it did not aged well.

 

[martinbo]

Why do we even have this thread? There was a perfectly on-topic discussion about the W213's eschewing of gesture control and how Mercedes' engineers purportedly dismissed gesture control as unsafe etc etc.

The discussion isn't a this car is better than that car one typical of internal combustion but rather one of legitimate debate in the context of the new car and its present technological features.

But anyhow, let's stick with this thread from here on...

 

[martinbo]

There you are, posts moved here as per your request @GTA8.5

 

[klier]

This thread is about the W213 E-Class vs. the competition and the technology offered.
The W213 E-Class is good enough to be compared to every other flagship car on earth currently offered from other makers. Feel free to compare it`s interior, design and it`s technology to any other hi-volume luxury car on the planet from other makes.

The 7er says hi.

But I am sure the MB fanboys like yourself think the E is better and more advanced. So this is completely and utterly pointless.

Why do we even have this thread? There was a perfectly on-topic discussion about the W213's eschewing of gesture control and how Mercedes' engineers purportedly dismissed gesture control as unsafe etc etc.

The discussion isn't a this car is better than that car one typical of internal combustion but rather one of legitimate debate in the context of the new car and its present technological features.

But anyhow, let's stick with this thread from here on...

No but people like GTA feel the E class taxi is a marvel beyond comprehension, which needs it's own thread.

I will have to wait a couple of years to decide. I loved the current 6er interior and after a few years started thinking it did not aged well.

Same here. Outside and inside, the 6er is visually a heavy boat. I don't even think the round soapy exterior aged that well.

 

[Rolf]

One thing is for sure both E-class and 7-series are the current world leaders in technology, it will take alot of discussions and debates to list all the tech in each and say which is better than the other, but no doubt about it these 2 cars are the most technological advanced cars on the planet right now.

 

[DblPen]

BMW probably looks forward to autonomous or semi-autonomous driving future, like in that i8 concept where you can go to car-driving-itself mode, you can sitback, steering wheel slides further from you, so advanced gesture and voice control makes most sense, as you dont need to reach for steering wheel or other buttons.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Having experienced very basic levels of "self-driving" in an S-Class, 7 Series and Audi A8, there is no way I would "sit back and relax" with the steering wheel moving away from me. It's a very strange feeling and if that's the future then I'm catching the bus. As long as it's not a self-driving bus.

I do wonder sometimes if these car companies are getting carried away with this autonomous driving lark. Sure, it's possible to make cars drive themselves. Does that mean people are going to be happy to sit back and trust the car to avoid crashing? I doubt it. It would take a fundamental change in the way the body reacts to danger. I personally don't see it happening in my lifetime.

 

[deity]

I don't see gesture control as a one-trick pony for volume control alone. To my mind, gesture control introduces a useful - and configurable - interface mechanism that requires no glancing away from the road ahead for any reason. I use the volume control on my steering wheel as wheel as well as the controls for taking phone calls and - from time to time - I find myself glancing at the instrument display or glancing for a button.

I'm not saying that such split-second actions are inherently unsafe but any activity that can be performed without taking your eyes off the road surely enhances safety. All advanced drivers will recognise that the first step toward driving safety is observation; this is then followed by recognition, followed by decision, followed by control. There is irrefutable proof that even the briefest glance off the road - at an inopportune time - severely decreases reaction time. All schools of advanced driving are proponents of this. In Germany in particular, travelling at higher Autobahn speeds sees reaction time significantly diminished and any glance off the road - however brief - is an increase in risk. With gesture control I would very much appreciate the benefits of not taking my eyes off the road at all. So what if gesture control only provides volume, call handling and a couple of other pre-configurable gestures for now.

I agree that gesture control is preferable to pushing a physical button on the centre stack. However, my argument is that the buttons on the steering wheel already achieve what gesture control aims to accomplish. The added benefit of doing so on the steering wheel is that you don't even have to take your hands off the steering wheel. Say what you will, but a quick Google search reveals many studies, driving schools, and reports that encourage two-handed driving.

In the same way quickly looking away from the road decreases reaction time, having only one-hand on the steering wheel (while driving at high speeds) is also likely to result in the same thing. If you look at people serious about controlling their vehicles at high speeds, they always have two hands on the steering wheel.

And yes, it is possible to drive one-handed, but in the same way it is OK for you to occasionally glance off the road. But in an emergency situation (which is what I assume we are discussing), it would be preferable to have both eyes on the road and both hands on the steering wheel. Not everyone is an extremely skilled driver of a BMW.

 

[mdartisian]

So if gesture control represents advancement in technology, does the argument that in it's infancy, it only does redundant functions and can't do them better than the old way really stand?

Kudos to BMW for implementing this new tech into their products, and if Mercedes Benz's DICE concept is any indication of their future, they plan to utilize this technology as well.

 

[GTA45E]

No, I don't subscribe to this train of thought. Taking one hand off the steering wheel is a common and certainly not an unsafe activity. EVERYONE does it presently and all car makers currently facilitate such practice. Your argument of both hands on the steering wheel obviating the viability of gesture control is flawed when ALL of the present instrument panel interfaces require a hand movement off the steering wheel. Oh, and remember that thing called a manual gearbox? People have been taking their hands from a wheel to a lever for decades and I can assure you that this action is no cause for driver distraction compared to operating a vehicle whilst on a phone call - automatic or not! You've missed it completely.

Wow, you have taken my post completely off the mark.
Its not as cut and dry as you try to make it sound. I never said taking one hand off the wheel is an unsafe activity.
My point in this discussion was the logic behind such an innovation as Gesture Control when 95% of the hardware is right there at your fingertips. Depending on ones’ learning curve these air-gestures can be a distraction, especially when one is just getting used to the system in their new car. If not physical, than psychological.
Changing gears of the old manual gear box requires that one takes his hand off the wheel, yes I am aware of that but in the process there is a “hand on” direct involvement of what the vehicle is doing. This “hands-on” approach is psychological involvement in the drive, the thin gray line and herein is where the true argument lies between these two systems. The Mercedes Thumb pads is a “hands on” approach because you are simply more involved In the activity of the vehicle while holding the wheel. In Air-Gesture, if you hold your hand slightly off angle, the camera is not going to pick your hand signal up, adding to the problems.
Imo, the Air-Gestures systems should be developed in a car with full
Autonomous function, when a human is all but chauffeured in the vehicle and the human can tell or show the vehicle what to do. It is coming, no question about it. In the mean time our job as human drivers is to be alert and aware of what our cars are doing. A simple physical touch of a control might engages that feeling of psychological involvement and could increase your action, reaction timing in a critical situation. This principle of "touch preparation" might have been what the Mercedes engineers were after.
Imagine twirling your finger to turn down the volume while another driver makes a fast move you don`t expect. You are going to be off the mark a little, regardless of how good you think you are. That hands off (psychological) approach could prove extremely dangerous in fast moving critical reaction situations.

As distracted (and bad) as the modern day driver is in some places, is this really an enhancement? I don`t think so.

 

[Rolf]

Looking at the advancements in voice command control, I really think this is a better as well as safer way forward than gesture control. With gesture control relying on sensors inside the vehicle to determine the height and position of the hand in space as well as the movement of that hand in space, there is possibility that these will be read incorrectly and the driver will have to take eyes off the road and concentrate and look at the position of their hand and screen and try the movement again. Whereas voice commands are more natural and don't involve any concentration or distraction. The voice commands can be displayed in HUD or instrument panel directly in the line of vision and the driver also doesn't need to take their hands off the steering wheel.

 

[Sunny]

I agree that gesture control is preferable to pushing a physical button on the centre stack. However, my argument is that the buttons on the steering wheel already achieve what gesture control aims to accomplish. The added benefit of doing so on the steering wheel is that you don't even have to take your hands off the steering wheel. Say what you will, but a quick Google search reveals many studies, driving schools, and reports that encourage two-handed driving.

In the same way quickly looking away from the road decreases reaction time, having only one-hand on the steering wheel (while driving at high speeds) is also likely to result in the same thing. If you look at people serious about controlling their vehicles at high speeds, they always have two hands on the steering wheel.

And yes, it is possible to drive one-handed, but in the same way it is OK for you to occasionally glance off the road. But in an emergency situation (which is what I assume we are discussing), it would be preferable to have both eyes on the road and both hands on the steering wheel.

There is limited real estate on the steering wheel. You can't put every control on the steering wheel, especially in a way that doesn't involve taking your hands from the steering wheel to operate. I am certain 7er has the usual steering wheel controls, so gesture controls is not in lieu of steering wheel controls, but in addition.

Not everyone is an extremely skilled driver of a BMW.

Silly and juvenile comment. Was that really necessary? Was a good discussion till then.