Hot! Volkswagen: What's Next

[klier]

Tesla has no need for those factories. Or the union labor that would come with it for that matter.

Nobody has a need for them. Retooling them to another brand will cost as much as building your own new plant somewhere else (far away from Germany).

 

[Centurion]

Nobody has a need for them. Retooling them to another brand will cost as much as building your own new plant somewhere else (far away from Germany).

It’s also highly unlikely that the union or local government would allow anyone to acquire the factories without transferring and protecting existing employment contracts.

 

[Fastpaddy]

This misery is self inflicted. VW rested on their laurels for too long because they were once a leading economy brand.

Jetta: Eaten alive by fwd crossovers.

Golf: Stood the test of time but is cannibalised by Mercedes, BMW and Audi releasing entry levels hatchbacks and salons.

Passat and upwards: Skodas are more practical, are less bland and better value with identical drive trains. Furthermore the Koreans have caught up. Kia and Huyndai cars are brilliant, look good and over more value for money.

ID range: Can be considered an irreversible flop.

I struggle to find a reason to recommend a VW over other brands. Their designs are bland, pricing has gone up over the years and interior quality in many models is below Skoda.

And audi are following the same trend.

Their dealership lots are just a uninspiring, depressing mess.

I used to love Audi, still want to love Audi, but their entire range is just so bland.

 

[Design FIRST]

Tesla has no need for those factories. Or the union labor that would come with it for that matter.

The business environment in Germany has become so extremely unfavourable that foreign investors are steering clear from committing themselves. We have been witnessing this not only in the automotive sector (case in point: Ford Europes Saarlouis facility), but also in the semiconductor and battery sectors. German pharmaceutical giant BASF has been significantly recalibrating investments in favour of overseas venues. The dialogue between commerce, industry and governance has become so dysfunctional that one now wonders whether there CAN POSSIBILY BE ANY source of salvation. Perhaps the installation of a technocracy ?? Crazy idea...or maybe not ?? At least here in Europe, the increasing dearth of foreign investment in Germany will be Polands, the Czech Republics, Slovakias, Hungarys and possibly even the U.K.s gain.

 

[Matski]

German pharmaceutical giant BASF has been significantly recalibrating investments in favour of overseas venues. The dialogue between commerce, industry and governance has become so dysfunctional that one now wonders whether there CAN POSSIBILY BE ANY source of salvation.

BASF cited a sluggish economy, over regulation, and energy prices as the reasons they want to downsize European operations and go to China. I'm not sure that counts as dysfunctional dialogue. At least two of those things are also affecting the likes of VW, but what do you do? Lift sanctions on Russia, and de-regulate to Chinese levels?

 

[EnI]

Wir schaffen das

Ja, aber natürlich!

 

[Design FIRST]

BASF cited a sluggish economy, over regulation, and energy prices as the reasons they want to downsize European operations and go to China. I'm not sure that counts as dysfunctional dialogue. At least two of those things are also affecting the likes of VW, but what do you do? Lift sanctions on Russia, and de-regulate to Chinese levels?

BASF CEO Martin Brudermüller has been very vocal regarding the obstructive regulatory government bureaucracy in Germany since at least 2019. In addition, he has been on the forefront of German business figures who directed appeals of increasing urgency to federal government officials regarding exorbitant energy prices, a lack of qualified young professionals and the desolation of infrastructure. He voiced repeated warnings that Germany will find itself under threat of losing key domestic commercial/industrial assets and facilities. He has often and continues to lament the aloofness, stubborness as well as the inability of key political decision makers in resolutely addressing crucial issues regarding commerce, the economy and finance.

 

[Centurion]

The business environment in Germany has become so extremely unfavourable that foreign investors are steering clear from committing themselves. We have been witnessing this not only in the automotive sector (case in point: Ford Europes Saarlouis facility), but also in the semiconductor and battery sectors. German pharmaceutical giant BASF has been significantly recalibrating investments in favour of overseas venues. The dialogue between commerce, industry and governance has become so dysfunctional that one now wonders whether there CAN POSSIBILY BE ANY source of salvation. Perhaps the installation of a technocracy ?? Crazy idea...or maybe not ?? At least here in Europe, the increasing dearth of foreign investment in Germany will be Polands, the Czech Republics, Slovakias, Hungarys and possibly even the U.K.s gain.

Thats sad when the US has managed to convince TSMC to build a semiconductor factory on US soil. The first yield from the factory is apparently superior to that of the factory in Taiwan.

 

[EnI]

Volkswagen is f#cked. Germany is f#cked.

Red alerts have been triggered @ BMW & Mercedes too. And down the automotive supply chain too. Good times are over for the German automotive industry and for entire Germany are over. Guys, you've f#cked it up cardinally. Years & years of series & series of very, very, very bad decisions by your political & business elite. And now it's too late to change the tides. It's irreversible. The Rubicon has been crossed.

German products are still top notch but they are too expensive & thus not competitive. Ditching nuclear power was such a stupid, stupid move. So was the bet & total dependency on Russian gas (Really, guys???!!!). So was de-industrialization - by ditching / exiling some of the crucial chemical & metal industries due to some green $hit reasons. And these are now pan-EU policies too - not just a national German policies. EU is f#cked. Many industries hit. Totally noncompetitive. Forever. It's game over for EU. Harsh times ahead for EU member states. Brace for the impact. Which will be even harder if / when Trump wins the US POTUS election on Nov 5th.

I won't be surprised by some nasty social unrest in some (big & important) EU countries in the near future, and consequently by the rise of far-left & far-right forces. Communists & fascists will be on the roll again after 100 years in Europe. Yay! Such fun! NOT!

 

[SCOTT27]

Oh how they laughed.

 

[Matski]

And now it's too late to change the tides. It's irreversible. The Rubicon has been crossed.... Totally noncompetitive. Forever. It's game over for EU....

I don't wish to sh!t on anyone's doomposting kink, but let's be real for a minute, Germany today and the Germany people may lust after from 30 years ago, both came a long, long, way from other far more serious events that might, more rightly, have been considered irreversible (and in some respects, were).... most of Europe did.

Communists ... will be on the roll again after 100 years in Europe

Well, at least there'll be more mid-rise medium density residential property to ease the housing crisis.

 

[EnI]

I don't wish to sh!t on anyone's doomposting kink, but let's be real for a minute, Germany today and the Germany people may lust after from 30 years ago, both came a long, long, way from other far more serious events that might, more rightly, have been considered irreversible (and in some respects, were).... most of Europe did.

Yes, they did. With a lot of help from the allies from the other side of The Pond.

Now imagine an isolationist USA under Trump & his MAGAists ... with his/their let's-$hit-on-EU kink. And imagine a very competitive rival on the other side of the world - a communist & undemocratic PRC with no limits & barriers when it comes to strategic national goals & objectives. Times these days are different. Very different. The technological paradigm is shifting from analog to digital, and Germany & EU are still not ready - and are completely dependent on US & Chinese tech. Oops! Just like they had been dependent on Russian oil until few years back. And that did go so well. Not!

Germany & EU have been resting on their laurels for far too long. And now the party is over, and here's the time for a reality check. There will be headache galore, you'll see.

I'm not predicting a doomsday ... Only a slow & painful downfall of an economic & industrial giant Germany has been up until now. A downfall with all the nasty aftermath that will follow. Every great era comes to an end. And this time it's Europe's & Germany's time to fall down again (relatively ... in comparison to US & China ... lagging behind those two even more than today). I just hope we will rise again ... some time in the future. Maybe we'll get some help from ... I don't know ... extraterrestrial entities, maybe. LOL!

Well, at least there'll be more mid-rise medium density residential property to ease the housing crisis.

Sure. Yeah. Paid by whom? Foreign lenders ... from USA & China & The Gulf states? Yap. They are very eager to pay for our lavish aspirations, dreams & our dolce vita. NOT!

 

[Sunny]

Germany & EU have been resting on their laurels for far too long. And now the party is over, and here's the time for a reality check. There will be headache galore, you'll see.

Ah, the irony. Just a year or two ago when few of us were warning about German car manufacturers falling behind, you were busy painting a rosy picture. How they could just start building EVs and it would be competitive from the get go... guess that didn't pan out.

Insert a "told you so" meme!

Serious note, I think the truth somewhere in the middle, not either of the extremes you make it out to be.

 

[Fastpaddy]

BASF CEO Martin Brudermüller has been very vocal regarding the obstructive regulatory government bureaucracy in Germany since at least 2019. In addition, he has been on the forefront of German business figures who directed appeals of increasing urgency to federal government officials regarding exorbitant energy prices, a lack of qualified young professionals and the desolation of infrastructure. He voiced repeated warnings that Germany will find itself under threat of losing key domestic commercial/industrial assets and facilities. He has often and continues to lament the aloofness, stubborness as well as the inability of key political decision makers in resolutely addressing crucial issues regarding commerce, the economy and finance.

Sounds like the UK. Good times breed weak men. Weak men breed bad times

 

[KiwiRob]

Meanwhile the Zwickau plant is running on half capacity for a good chunk of each passing year. Tragic times for the Germans

It's hard to feel sorry for them, they turned off the nuclear power stations, then the Govt refused to reopen the ones that could be restarted when they lost access to the cheap Russian gas the economy relied on. What's killing German industry is the high cost of energy.

 

[Centurion]

Red alerts have been triggered @ BMW & Mercedes too. And down the automotive supply chain too. Good times are over for the German automotive industry and for entire Germany are over. Guys, you've f#cked it up cardinally. Years & years of series & series of very, very, very bad decisions by your political & business elite. And now it's too late to change the tides. It's irreversible. The Rubicon has been crossed.

German products are still top notch but they are too expensive & thus not competitive. Ditching nuclear power was such a stupid, stupid move. So was the bet & total dependency on Russian gas (Really, guys???!!!). So was de-industrialization - by ditching / exiling some of the crucial chemical & metal industries due to some green $hit reasons. And these are now pan-EU policies too - not just a national German policies. EU is f#cked. Many industries hit. Totally noncompetitive. Forever. It's game over for EU. Harsh times ahead for EU member states. Brace for the impact. Which will be even harder if / when Trump wins the US POTUS election on Nov 5th.

I won't be surprised by some nasty social unrest in some (big & important) EU countries in the near future, and consequently by the rise of far-left & far-right forces. Communists & fascists will be on the roll again after 100 years in Europe. Yay! Such fun! NOT!

Another important thing to mention is that VW has profited substantially from China. Doesn’t China account for like 30-40% of revenue for VW?

In the recent 10 years, it’s been socially accepted to flaunt wealth in China and even move abroad, take your money there and spend more. This meant almost insatiable brand obssession China. Louis Vuitton, Audi etc capitalised on this with bigger logos or monograms.

However, there’s not an arms race towards artificial general intelligence. The US has banned Nvidia and others from selling chips to China, likewise, lots of Chinese manufacturers can’t sell products to the US.

What’s the best way for China to retaliate? Offer EV manufacturer government support. This is leading to work class product at brilliant prices. Who will this indirectly hurt? Western car manufacturers. To make matters worse, China could introduce incentives for EVs or tax ICE cars higher which would further harm western car manufacturers.

VW need to reduce their dependency on China.

 

[klier]

It's hard to feel sorry for them, they turned off the nuclear power stations, then the Govt refused to reopen the ones that could be restarted when they lost access to the cheap Russian gas the economy relied on.

It's almost like a bad joke isn't it?

 

[KiwiRob]

Yes, they did. With a lot of help from the allies from the other side of The Pond.

There's 11m dead Soviet soldiers who would disagree with that blanket statement. If Russian hadn't tied up the bulk of the Wehrmacht, WW2 would not have been won in Europe by the Allies.

It's almost like a bad joke isn't it?

I know it's ridiculous. If I was Germany I'd be sucking up to Putin asking for supply of that sweet sweet cheap Russian gas. If it's the difference between destroying the economy or keeping Germans employed I know what I would do.

 

[Sunny]

If I was Germany I'd be sucking up to Putin

I thought you were busy sucking Xi? Double barreling it?

 

[KiwiRob]

Another important thing to mention is that VW has profited substantially from China. Doesn’t China account for like 30-40% of revenue for VW?

In the recent 10 years, it’s been socially accepted to flaunt wealth in China and even move abroad, take your money there and spend more. This meant almost insatiable brand obssession China. Louis Vuitton, Audi etc capitalised on this with bigger logos or monograms.

However, there’s not an arms race towards artificial general intelligence. The US has banned Nvidia and others from selling chips to China, likewise, lots of Chinese manufacturers can’t sell products to the US.

What’s the best way for China to retaliate? Offer EV manufacturer government support. This is leading to work class product at brilliant prices. Who will this indirectly hurt? Western car manufacturers. To make matters worse, China could introduce incentives for EVs or tax ICE cars higher which would further harm western car manufacturers.

VW need to reduce their dependency on China.

China is the number 1 user of chips in the world, they take over 50% of the worlds chip production, if Nvidia can't sell chips to China they're screwed. Nvidia and Intel are circumventing the ban by leasing chips to China via third party countries like Singapore and Japan.

US tariffs aren't stopping the Chinese selling in the US they just make it more expensive for US manufacturers and consumers to buy products made in China or using components made in China. Chine wins with or without tariffs, it's the US consumer who loses due to higher retail prices.