Vs Top Gear M3 vs C63 vs RS4

[Steve]

Have you guys not seen the Autocar review that states the C63 was the better car???? and it WAS faster than the M3 around the Dry and Wet handling track, I will listen to Steve Sutcliffe and Chris Harris, both seasoned racers over any other writers JC et al, and quite a few amatuer journalists on here.


Have a look for the link in MB section of the forum. i noticed just me hasnt posted

 

[Zafiro]

Have you guys not seen the Autocar review that states the C63 was the better car???? and it WAS faster than the M3 around the Dry and Wet handling track, I will listen to Steve Sutcliffe and Chris Harris, both seasoned racers over any other writers JC et al, and quite a few amatuer journalists on here.


Have a look for the link in MB section of the forum. i noticed just me hasnt posted

I think you are little too obsessed about winnings. You cant win them all cant you. C63 win some and M3 will win some and when the next RS4 comes it will win every single comparison.
You buy yourself a C63 and ignore the results from carmags. Its not like they are going to change your opinion anyway, they are only good for bragging rights.

 

[Mr Robert]

Have you guys not seen the Autocar review that states the C63 was the better car???? and it WAS faster than the M3 around the Dry and Wet handling track...

You will always find someone with any given opinion.

I have now read the Autocar test and it was no comparison, in the only direct comparison they made the M3 won, if that is important, and that is coming from the guys that really do not like the new M3.

Im with Just_me on this one, go buy yourself the C63 and if you like the things that are good about the C63 you will be happy, no use trying to find a reason among magazines.

 

[castagna]

You will always find someone with any given opinion.

I have now read the Autocar test and it was no comparison, in the only direct comparison they made the M3 won, if that is important, and that is coming from the guys that really do not like the new M3.

You mean people like C. Harris who has bought a white M3 E92? So if the M3 doesn't win a comparo it's because the journalists are against the model?....yeah, right

 

[coolraoul]

I've just read al the thread...
You guys are according too much importance to these tests and reviews.
I love Top Gear, it is for me the best and almost every single episode is fabulous. However, like some said, it is 80% entertainment. It is not serious, it is not fact. it is all about humor, fun, subjectivity.

Take the C63 in this test. it is, accordingly to everybody, the most brutal, raw and powerful of the three. So, to exagerate this point, they drove it like madmen, so it appeared nervous and trashed the tyres.
it is not that nervous in other reviews, but it is more fun to drive it like that, so Top Gear did it.

And so is everything in Top Gear. This is what makes it brilliant, the exagerations, stupid things that mainly Clarkson says...But don't take it too serious!

I think this is the first time that an AMG C really can compete with an M3. And this is big news.

They are different however. The real driver could prefer the M3 because of the balance and feeling.
The C63 is more brutal and powerful. It gives you a terrible sensation of power and acceleration, that the others don't. it is brutal, powerful, but less refined.

These are equally fabulous cars, with slightly different appeal. The C63 is uncomplicated, it makes you love it at the very beginning with its insane power. The M3 is more a package, you need to drive it fast to see its brilliantness.

The C63 is my favourite. Because it is just insane, crazy. I am not a very skilled driver, able to catch every millisecond on track. When I buy such a car, I want to be blown-up by the power, and I think the C63 is a better choice for that. The M3 is more rational, the C is just crazy and I love that.

For me the C has more character, more charisma, more personnality. The noise it makes, the way it looks, the sheer power...Fabulous.
The M3 is more underqstated.

Different cars for different people. And I don't care what journalists say, a car is all about your personal taste and feeling.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

Have you guys not seen the Autocar review that states the C63 was the better car???? and it WAS faster than the M3 around the Dry and Wet handling track, I will listen to Steve Sutcliffe and Chris Harris, both seasoned racers over any other writers JC et al, and quite a few amatuer journalists on here.


Have a look for the link in MB section of the forum. i noticed just me hasnt posted

What Dry and Wet Handling track are you talking about where the C63 was faster than the M3? I've never seen that before on the Autocar website.

Autocar wrote 2 articles on the C63, neither of them are direct head to head comparison tests with the M3 where they subject the cars to the same roads/track on the same day. In the first article, they give the nod to the M3, but they change their mind in the 2nd article and give the nod to the C63, based on memory of how the M3 drove in the past.

Anyways, even if you take Autocar's opinion in preferring the C63, I think they are the only car mag to say that. Motortrend, Car&Driver, Evo magazine, and the Top Gear (TV show) are the only ones that have compared the C63 vs the M3 in direct head to head testing (that I know of). All of them give a consistent result: M3 wins.

All of them show the following things consistently: The C63 is faster in acceleration, but the M3 handles a bit better and has better driving "feel" and involvement for the driver. The C63 rides harsher than the M3 with adjustable dampers on everday roads, and the C63 is thirstier for gas.

If you want the faster car on everyday roads, the C63 is the winner.

 

[Mr Robert]

You mean people like C. Harris who has bought a white M3 E92?

Autocar delivered one of the most negative first impressions of all magazines, if this Harris person later on decides to buy one tells us one or two things:

1. He did not write the first article.
2. Evo was very right when they say that the M3 grows with every use.

Bu then again, it might be that the M3 is a taste a bit too sophisticated for everyone to be able to enjoy?

So, no, maybe I do not mean people like C. Harris. Why so provocative?

 

[Steve]

I think you are little too obsessed about winnings. You cant win them all cant you. C63 win some and M3 will win some and when the next RS4 comes it will win every single comparison.
You buy yourself a C63 and ignore the results from carmags. Its not like they are going to change your opinion anyway, they are only good for bragging rights.

The reason why i posted this is because YOU are the first to comment on how good the M3 is in every post possible and i find it highly amussing YOU accuse me of being obsessed about winning articles etc and in the one article that stated it was their (CH and SS) opinion the C63 was a better car YOU didnt make comment.

I suppose i was showing MY annoyance at your blind M3 adulation.

In the past ive owned 3 different M cars E30,E46,E39 and i love the marque but i am not blinded into saying they are the best at everything, and it really comes across you think they are, and they are not.

Regards

Steve.

 

[Steve]

Autocar delivered one of the most negative first impressions of all magazines, if this Harris person later on decides to buy one tells us one or two things:

1. He did not write the first article.
2. Evo was very right when they say that the M3 grows with every use.

Bu then again, it might be that the M3 is a taste a bit too sophisticated for everyone to be able to enjoy?

So, no, maybe I do not mean people like C. Harris. Why so provocative?

Harris bought the M3 BEFORE driving the Merc

 

[Steve]

What Dry and Wet Handling track are you talking about where the C63 was faster than the M3? I've never seen that before on the Autocar website.

Autocar wrote 2 articles on the C63, neither of them are direct head to head comparison tests with the M3 where they subject the cars to the same roads/track on the same day. In the first article, they give the nod to the M3, but they change their mind in the 2nd article and give the nod to the C63, based on memory of how the M3 drove in the past.

Anyways, even if you take Autocar's opinion in preferring the C63, I think they are the only car mag to say that. Motortrend, Car&Driver, Evo magazine, and the Top Gear (TV show) are the only ones that have compared the C63 vs the M3 in direct head to head testing (that I know of). All of them give a consistent result: M3 wins.

All of them show the following things consistently: The C63 is faster in acceleration, but the M3 handles a bit better and has better driving "feel" and involvement for the driver. The C63 rides harsher than the M3 with adjustable dampers on everday roads, and the C63 is thirstier for gas.

If you want the faster car on everyday roads, the C63 is the winner.

This is not correctr if you read the Article Autocar repeatedly say the C63 has better steering and has more feel, better driving position, better seats, and a better steering wheel.

And as we ( the royal we) arnt pro racers doing timed ring laps, feel is more important in overall enjoyment than lap time.


but of course im only giving MY opinion on things and like arse holes weve all got a different one


Steve

 

[Guibo]

This is not correctr if you read the Article Autocar repeatedly say the C63 has better steering and has more feel, better driving position, better seats, and a better steering wheel.
Steve

Is this the same one where they take the C63 to Frankfurt Airport? In any case, another Autocar roadtester felt the M3 is the better car.
BMW M3 is the consummate all-rounder - Tester?s notes


"and it WAS faster than the M3 around the Dry and Wet handling track"

I, too, would like to see this test. Considering what TopGear have found here (and Evo, Car & Driver, and AutoZeitung elsewhere), that would be an outlier result. But interesting to see nevertheless.

 

[Steve]

About Jamie Corstorphine

Left a city job to be a road tester in 2004; other signs of madness include perpetual chirpy optimism and good humour. Used to drive a mossy Ford Granada 2.8; he's better now.


nuff said

seriosly he still says the M3 steering isnt upto sctach

 

[Guibo]

seriosly he still says the M3 steering isnt upto sctach

He also said the M3 is the better all-around car, and didn't say anything about the C63's being better. C&D and Evo both rated the M3's steering higher than the C63. You question his background to be a tester when he says the M3 is better, but not his qualms about the steering. Interesting.
Sutcliff prefers the C63, but says:
"Game over for the M3 then? Not quite, because there are two big caveats that sit squarely between the C63 and total world domination. One, it eats fuel. And when I mean eats, I actually mean wolfs it down like a starving man. I drove one for a few days last week and, although I hardly went berserk in it at all (because you just can’t in the south east of England), it averaged just 12.9mpg. With a 60-litre tank that gives a real world range of about 170 miles. Which is totally and utterly pathetic in 2007.
The other issue concerns its ride, which is stiff to the point of absurdity, especially on the rutted roads in and around Hove where I live. True, it gets a lot better on smoother, faster dual carriageways, but it’s so uncompromising around town that, in the long run, it might just drive you mad."

Also, to which track test by Autocar were you referring?

 

[Sunny]

This is not correctr if you read the Article Autocar repeatedly say the C63 has better steering and has more feel, better driving position, better seats, and a better steering wheel.

And as we ( the royal we) arnt pro racers doing timed ring laps, feel is more important in overall enjoyment than lap time.


but of course im only giving MY opinion on things and like arse holes weve all got a different one


Steve

No you are not giving your opinion when you claim according to Autocar, C63 was faster than M3 in wet and dry tracks, which PC called out as not true.

 

[Zafiro]

The reason why i posted this is because YOU are the first to comment on how good the M3 is in every post possible and i find it highly amussing YOU accuse me of being obsessed about winning articles etc and in the one article that stated it was their (CH and SS) opinion the C63 was a better car YOU didnt make comment.

I suppose i was showing MY annoyance at your blind M3 adulation.

In the past ive owned 3 different M cars E30,E46,E39 and i love the marque but i am not blinded into saying they are the best at everything, and it really comes across you think they are, and they are not.

Regards

Steve.

just becuase I post tests doesnt mean I care who win, I also post it becuase I know others want to read the tests. Do you want me to stop posting?
It amuses me that my posts bothers you.


PS, winnings are good for bragging rights and it obviosly disturb you that people do bragg about it but in the end, magazine results wont affect our car decision.
PS, I have never said BMW is better on everything. They are better on many things but not everything.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let me remind you guys that this is Top Gear test and not Autocar. So stop the Autocar discussion and do it in another thread. Thank you very much.

 

[Mr Robert]

And as we ( the royal we) arnt pro racers doing timed ring laps, feel is more important in overall enjoyment than lap time.

And this is where, according to most except Autocar, the BMW M3 shines. You should really read more magazines! On the other hand you might feel that you share the same taste in cars as one or more editor of Autocar and then I understand that you stick with them.

To some extent that is fine, I think, because there are so many journalists out there with crazy opinions and a need to be seen. My favourite magazine is Evo because they focus on things like driver involvment and the satisfaction to drive. Many times their opinions match mine and if they rank a car high I can be pretty sure it is something I would like.

 

[Steve]

Jeeezy creeezy gang up on the newbie

whether or not i was buying C63 i would still feel that from reading the posts, as an outsider looking in to the club, that a lot of people stick up for the M3 and when i stick up for the C63 im slagged off for only being interested in bragging rights.

Obvoiusly you guys are allowed to throw your opinion round but if some one challenges you you dont like it. Now then onto MY real feelings / experience with both cars


I ve been lucky enough to Test both cars exstensivly and i can say IMO the C63 has a more direct feel to the steering, what i mean by that is when i move the wheel a little bit i can feel the tires move and grip the road, and the nose moves quicker, However when i was in the M3 ( a friend has one) the feel around middle is numb, its more guess work than actual feel.

I am not saying you cant thread the M3 perfectly through corners or do aggressive power slides, but you dont really feel the tires on the road.

The C63 is heavier and it wasnt as easy to modulate the powerslide but it FELT more involved, and the steering feels more alive, therefore i felt more involved therefore more excited.

I think if i was a more frequent track driver i could feel more of a hero in a M3, but for day to day driving the C63 has a better interior, feels behind the wheel MUCH faster, exhaust note to die for, huge shove from massive torque and overall feels more expensive.

In real terms when i got My E46 M3 in 2004 it was IMO opinion a better car. I know with a direct comparison the E92 would be faster but i dont think its neccessarily a better car. I dont think its significantly moved the game on wereas i think merc has done with the C63.

I wont post anymore

Steve

 

[Zafiro]

Thanks for your input Steve. And I respect your opinion. But you just have to accept that not everyone is going to feel the same about these two cars like you do. Thats the beauty with opinions, they differ from person to person.
Both are great cars and both M3 and C63 will find their customers. It's good they exist so there is a car for every taste.

But I want to say one thing. Watch out for the next RS4, you might wanna trade your C63 for it

 

[Sunny]

Jeeezy creeezy gang up on the newbie

whether or not i was buying C63 i would still feel that from reading the posts, as an outsider looking in to the club, that a lot of people stick up for the M3 and when i stick up for the C63 im slagged off for only being interested in bragging rights.

Obvoiusly you guys are allowed to throw your opinion round but if some one challenges you you dont like it. Now then onto MY real feelings / experience with both cars


I ve been lucky enough to Test both cars exstensivly and i can say IMO the C63 has a more direct feel to the steering, what i mean by that is when i move the wheel a little bit i can feel the tires move and grip the road, and the nose moves quicker, However when i was in the M3 ( a friend has one) the feel around middle is numb, its more guess work than actual feel.

I am not saying you cant thread the M3 perfectly through corners or do aggressive power slides, but you dont really feel the tires on the road.

The C63 is heavier and it wasnt as easy to modulate the powerslide but it FELT more involved, and the steering feels more alive, therefore i felt more involved therefore more excited.

I think if i was a more frequent track driver i could feel more of a hero in a M3, but for day to day driving the C63 has a better interior, feels behind the wheel MUCH faster, exhaust note to die for, huge shove from massive torque and overall feels more expensive.

In real terms when i got My E46 M3 in 2004 it was IMO opinion a better car. I know with a direct comparison the E92 would be faster but i dont think its neccessarily a better car. I dont think its significantly moved the game on wereas i think merc has done with the C63.

I wont post anymore

Steve

Nothing wrong in stating your opinion, it is making up stuff like below that tiffs people off (or atleast me).

Have you guys not seen the Autocar review that states the C63 was the better car???? and it WAS faster than the M3 around the Dry and Wet handling track

 

[Mr Robert]

Jeeezy creeezy gang up on the newbie

whether or not i was buying C63 i would still feel that from reading the posts, as an outsider looking in to the club, that a lot of people stick up for the M3 and when i stick up for the C63 im slagged off for only being interested in bragging rights.

Obvoiusly you guys are allowed to throw your opinion round but if some one challenges you you dont like it.

Of course you are entiteled to your opinion, it is just the way you present it -the impressions of the majority of testers do not matter at all since you do not think so yourself. That is why you get some harsh answers to your posts and that has nothing to do with you prefering the C63 over the M3, after all, there are those who favour the type of driving experience presented by Mercedes in the C63... its all about tastes and who you ask.