The Great Design Discussion and debate


Klier, these aren’t “imaginary lines”; they are more so guides, or traces if you will, to where everything originates, is placed, and ends. The in-between is where the designers have chosen to place the sculpted lines. I don’t know who Scott is so I’m not sure if you are trying to insult me. Regardless, many members have already responded with respect to the wheel arch. Its purpose is to give the vehicle a wide stance in the rear, accentuating its stability, strength, and power; just as a menacing animal sits low on its rear legs before launching to take its prey. I too think the W204 has a great side; its side line is lively as it tapers upward, but it is modest. The CLS, however, is way more pretentious and therefore more aesthetically appealing and seductive. Assuming the majority of us on here are men, we all can relate vehicles to women. When a woman has an accentuated figure, one with an hourglass figure with a curvature of body lines, it represents beauty, elegance, and sex appeal. One that is straight does not do as well. The history of the aesthetics of hourglass type female figures dates back to prehistoric times and its raw forms can be seen in body forms of prehistoric sculptures and paintings. Humanity continually proves that the ideal female body is the hourglass figure, which we perennially focus our attention to as the source of aesthetic pleasure and sexual attraction. The same applies to the CLS. If you don’t understand it, well then I suppose some men on this planet are meant to find the straight women more appealing. :p

KA, you have really proved yourself to this forum and the world. You just outdo yourself with every comment. I sit back with friends and get a good laugh. This one especially took the cherry: “Once again…you seem butt hurt that I'm right.” What is your basis again? Right, you have none, it’s just silly old you. I may not have the same connection to Audi and BMW as much as I do with Mercedes-Benz, but that is not to say I shut myself down arrogantly or do not try to understand their designs. They are just ordinary, described exactly as I said above: designed with a “Point A to Point B” language already connecting the dots for you. What excitement does that bring to any individuals’ mind? It requires no process, no analysis, and no conception. Maybe that’s just my mind thinking as and industrial designer and mechanical engineer; who knows. But I suppose your tenacious little mind isn’t capable of comprehending more than an ordinary design. The amusing thing is that you hated the W212 when it came out, picking at it with the same negative way as you do with any new Mercedes-Benz model. Now you drive a W212 and ‘love it for its unique design’. The facelifted W212 debuts and you ‘hate the ponton fender flare’. That’s odd; you didn’t like it initially on the pre-facelift, then you seemed to comprehend it, and now you don’t like the different rendition of the wheel arch on the facelift E-Class. Can anyone cue the REPEAT button? So you see KA, you are a prime example of history foolishly repeating itself. Everyone has a right to critique a design, but you have the most uninformed and wrongful of intentions. Your issue does not lie with comprehending a design, it’s just you. With the best of intentions, I wish you inner peace.

That is all, utter drivel. You sound like a marketing guy or designer who's mad that someone righteously can pick apart his work.

Some of you guys act as if the CLS is the only car in the world with curvy hips or a "pronounced pose".

You drew imaginary lines as if putting your interpretation on the CLS. Clearly the designers don't agree with you because they didn't draw it that way. They slammed the dropping line into a random point in the door, breaking it up in a haphazard fashion.

Also, I never said I don't like the W212 facelift, again, except for the Star grille. I said it shows that I've been RIGHT all along, M-B designers clearly can't even find their own way, thus can't stand behind their own work.

I love being the villain here because you M-B apologists have no case.... I critique the ACTUAL design of a car and you paint hypothetical and imaginary lines and throw personal attacks at me because I don't see it the same way? LOL.

Funny how you then launch into an "ordinary" tangent against Audi and BMW designs, claiming they don't inspire. I guess a connected design isn't "inspiring" anymore? You really think you need random lines and discordance to the point where you NEED to draw imaginary lines to make sense of it, is needed to find passion from design? I'd say you've been watching M-B's too closely.
 
The CLS has curves, arcs, bends, swoops; it flows just as a curvaceous woman’s body.

More empty marketing speak. The CLS's lines are antithesis to a females body. A (good) female body has symmetry, flows, looks natural. The CLS's lines don't flow, they crash, wayward motions, lots of asymmetry, and is very fussy.

Some of you will just throw the highest grade compliments toward an M-B design, as if you haven't even looked at the very design you're dissecting. Nothing about the CLS's design is meant to flow or be natural. I already proved here that it's a wedge shaped car with a forced-on reverse wedge line (big "no no").

Or maybe you can take a step back and realize that having a huge Thread with CLS backers having to draw fake lines on the car to prove it "works" proves in fact that it just doesn't.... ?
 
Once again, Artist, you seem butt hurt that I'm right and you guys with your apologetically "imaginary lines" can't prove all the flaws I've pointed out via the CLS's disconnecting design wrong.

I can draw imaginary lines on any design and say "the Designers meant this", but if they didn't DO it, then there's no proof that they meant it.

I dare anyone to EXPLAIN how the lines AS THEY ARE make sense, no "imaginary lines" nonsense. I've never seen anyone have to draw imaginary lines onto a car to try and pass it off as coherent, until the CLS came along.

Im butt hurt as you try to enter everyone's anal cavity by your relentless blizzard of bs. Assaults on behind leaves most of us butt hurt, unless your accustom to visitations in that area.

I told you my view on the line in the other thread, you disregarded it and went on with your blizzard.

So no you are not right!
 
Im butt hurt as you try to enter everyone's anal cavity by your relentless blizzard of bs. Assaults on behind leaves most of us butt hurt, unless your accustom to visitations in that area.

I told you my view on the line in the other thread, you disregarded it and went on with your blizzard.

So no you are not right!

You guys are just waxing poetic about what the line means to you. "Cat crouched" and all that stuff is just lyrical waxing. I'm showing you how the line/s technically connect/s with absolutely nothing. Unless someone can technically show how it works, flows, and connects (you know, the things that make a car design good), not by drawing imaginary lines that completely disregard jarring pillars in between like the fender hump VS dropping line, then I don't think I'm proven in any way wrong. This thread was about trying to explain the purported discordance in CLS design, but the only excuses are imaginary lines that are clearly not the case as they aren't actually there.

I will say thanasi's imaginary line masterpiece did enlighten me in one way, however. It showed me the method behind the movement of the door handles (which are annoyingly and haphazardly not placed on any actual character line).... even though there's no actual line there, has an ACTUAL MOTION-DIRECTION straight into the top of the fender hump. So one down, dozens more to go.
 
Can you photoshop one sans the dropping line completely, keeping the fender hump, and with a hard character line cutting through the door handles, seamlessly integrating into the rear fender?
 
You guys are just waxing poetic about what the line means to you. "Cat crouched" and all that stuff is just lyrical waxing. I'm showing you how the line/s technically connect/s with absolutely nothing. Unless someone can technically show how it works, flows, and connects (you know, the things that make a car design good), not by drawing imaginary lines that completely disregard jarring pillars in between like the fender hump VS dropping line, then I don't think I'm proven in any way wrong. This thread was about trying to explain the purported discordance in CLS design, but the only excuses are imaginary lines that are clearly not the case as they aren't actually there.

I will say thanasi's imaginary line masterpiece did enlighten me in one way, however. It showed me the method behind the movement of the door handles (which are annoyingly and haphazardly not placed on any actual character line).... even though there's no actual line there, has an ACTUAL MOTION-DIRECTION straight into the top of the fender hump. So one down, dozens more to go.
No YOU draw imaginary lines. What gives you the right to tell US what the hell is technically right in a design?
Did you Phd In car design?
You are just pulling stuff out your a** and ranting about it..NON STOP!
 
Im butt hurt as you try to enter everyone's anal cavity by your relentless blizzard of bs. Assaults on behind leaves most of us butt hurt, unless your accustom to visitations in that area.

I told you my view on the line in the other thread, you disregarded it and went on with your blizzard.

So no you are not right!

Artist, when you say to KA "....as you try to enter everyone's anal cavity...." you do realise when KA is doing that, there too he is confronted with a dropping line (if you know what I mean):LOL:
 
I think everybody is crystal clear what certain members opinions of the design of a certain car manufacturers model are , so for the love of God, can we all please move on? I know the whole purpose of this thread was to allow members to air their opinions about automotive design, past and present, but one can make their point without incessant repetition. A cars design and aesthetic merit is the most subjective aspect of it, and quite simply nobody is right or wrong, and thus endless debate is futile is pointless. It would be most beneficial if everybody remembered that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". So, how about we move the conversation on to more interesting, fractionally less subjective topic of who is your favourite automotive designer ever, or your favourite ever supercar/saloon/coupe/hatchback/citycar design, or what is in your opinion the best looking model a certain manufacturer has made. Believe it or not it I think it would be nice to discuss anything other than the profile view of the Mercedes CLS.
 
I photoshopped the CLS, ridding the rear arch and turning it into what I think most current non-CLS-believers will like. Who knows, maybe the CLS will follow the footsteps of the E-Class facelift and lose its arch in favor of something more cohesive. I just hope that when Mercedes-Benz takes my design, I get credited. :D

View attachment 14675

Nice skills Thanasi, could you please PS the car keeping the fender (ponton) bulge, but deleting or straighting the main dropping line?
I'm one who likes the ponton, but don't like the dropping line.. it seems to go nowhere.

Yesterday I parked next to a white CLS550 in AMG trim and took a while to analyze the design... some opinions of mine (have written some things before):
-I, much like Klier and Hoffmeister, think is a beautiful core design, with some really bad taste detailing. The proportions and overall silhouette of the car are simply gorgeous. Haven't seen the 6GC IRL, but the A7 looks cheap and ordinary next to the CLS proportions.
-Unlike the SL, SLK, A,B, etc the lights don't look massive and the LED integration is miles better. Why Mercedes changed their mind and started that butt ugly "eyebrows" is beyond me. :facepalm:
-The rear lights aren't of my taste, they're quite original, but somehow manage to look a bit asian. The main concern is the front and rear of the aren't very related/coherent, just like the SL and SLK, it looks like two design teams were in charge, one upfront and one down the rear. Front is blocky and strong, rear are amoebas.
-The side line still is as terrible as in pics or in traffic, in fact I've noticed it less in others ocassions, when the cars where moving: perhaps was the colours, as the others I saw where dark gray, burgundy and an CLS63 in white pearl. Not only looks out of place, but "brokens" the car in half and ruins a bit of the "long and sleek" effect.
-Some details seem to passed the eye of the designers: the chrome strip/handle of the trunk ends too abruptly, like being cutted with an axe and the stoplights only reflect light in the trunk area, not in the main body area. It looks like a bad repair job.....
 
No YOU draw imaginary lines. What gives you the right to tell US what the hell is technically right in a design?
Did you Phd In car design?
You are just pulling stuff out your a** and ranting about it..NON STOP!

Dude, you clearly couldn't understand a cohesive line if it was drawn and draping itself over your head. If you can't understand how some of the CLS's lines connect to nothing and how thanasi was drawing lines that aren't even there, then you don't think for yourself too well (instead let M-B's designers think for you).

Question outside of the box sometimes, it'll do you well.

I love how you guys constantly complain about repetition yet you repeat yourselves just as much as I do. I'm not talking to myself here.
 
Could we please move over to another design now? Something not from MB????
I love talking about design and imaginary lines, but this CLS debate is going in circles....

Lets talk about Audi and it's jaw dropping designs :D
 
Dude, you clearly couldn't understand a cohesive line if it was drawn and draping itself over your head. If you can't understand how some of the CLS's lines connect to nothing and how thanasi was drawing lines that aren't even there, then you don't think for yourself too well (instead let M-B's designers think for you).

Question outside of the box sometimes, it'll do you well.

I love how you guys constantly complain about repetition yet you repeat yourselves just as much as I do. I'm not talking to myself here.

No only you understand it all.. Master designer..

Repeat myself? I don't even post here, i came back to shut your pie hole... and your ruination of this forum.

But you are as stubborn as a donkey.

Dafuq does someone care what you think? or i think? You told us millions of times.. lay off it.
There is no explanation to it.. if you think MB design sucks..accept it and shut the hell up!
 
actually if there's 1 thread who's intent is to constantly bitch about Mercedes design, it's here. ;)
 
Could we please move over to another design now? Something not from MB????
I love talking about design and imaginary lines, but this CLS debate is going in circles....

Lets talk about Audi and it's jaw dropping designs :D

actually that's a good idea, find new designs to critique to see how those critiques can compare to how deeply we can critique the CLS.
 

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