The Great Design Discussion and debate

[klier]

Mm hmm, I would continue to expect responses like these because you guys simply do not know whats going on here. You are continuing to try to analyze and critisize an aspect of art you are not familiar with. I`m going to spill the beans on the CLS design. Its called biomorphic geometry (the gray language of the abstract as I call it). Until you familiarize yourself with a study course of this design language to get some in site,( to learn something new and get out of your comfort-zones for a little bit,) your negative comments are baseless and hold little to no value imo.

Holy........mother of God.
This has the be the worst thing I've ever read here on this site..
Absolutely incredible.

 

[Zafiro]

Speaking about overhang. I have pretty large overhang myself and some girls like it sorry I couldnt resist...

 

[Gianclaudio]

Speaking about overhang. I have pretty large overhang myself and some girls like it sorry I couldnt resist...

Your rear overhang? Or your nose?

 

[Zafiro]

Your rear overhang? Or your nose?

Thats for you to find out

 

[Gianclaudio]

Thats for you to find out

Ok! I've the right tool for your overhang

 

[MAJESTIC]

Speaking about overhang. I have pretty large overhang myself and some girls like it sorry I couldnt resist...

 

[K-A]

Okay, so in order to focus some of the specific design criticisms here against the CLA, since it seems all of a sudden specific criticisms toward a cars design aren't "welcome" in their Official Threads, I'll copy & past my CLA criticism here:

Tasteless. The lines especially have reached a new Mercedes low. Now, instead of crashing into the Ponton fender like the CLS, it crashes into a random point in the rear doors shutline.... therefore you have so much busyness and cluster-f@rking going on around the doors, then after the door shutline, the rear quarter panel is naked/plain/empty.... what happened? Not enough coherency to connect the dots on design anymore? [This is why M-B's don't look as long as they used to, stubby lines separating from each other creates a stubby appearance]

 

[Monster]

Okay, so in order to focus some of the specific design criticisms here against the CLA, since it seems all of a sudden specific criticisms toward a cars design aren't "welcome" in their Official Threads, I'll copy & past my CLA criticism here:

Tasteless. The lines especially have reached a new Mercedes low. Now, instead of crashing into the Ponton fender like the CLS, it crashes into a random point in the rear doors shutline.... therefore you have so much busyness and cluster-f@rking going on around the doors, then after the door shutline, the rear quarter panel is naked/plain/empty.... what happened? Not enough coherency to connect the dots on design anymore? [This is why M-B's don't look as long as they used to, stubby lines separating from each other creates a stubby appearance]

I also think the car can do without the downward sweeping line, there is just too much going on with such a small and short body.

 

[K-A]

I also think the car can do without the downward sweeping line, there is just too much going on with such a small and short body.

Agreed. I just keep cringing at how it ends at the door but looks like it wants to at least connect with the upper part of the rear wheel well. Not sure how that would look, but at least some connectivity would be nice. It looks like it wants to connect into that rear fender/wheel well but just abruptly stops short at said end of the rear door instead.

 

[K-A]

The problem is, I think you're using your own interpretation of how the dropping line is supposed to motion, and draw too much of a point toward the rear bottom. When I look at the dropping line, I see a stubby end at too "middle" a part of the door, and I don't see the motion continuing into a sleeker drop as you drew.

As you see, you yourself connected the line to wrap around the wheel well, and had to bend the line toward the bottom (you can't expect others to see that as it simply isn't technically there, and doesn't even seem meant by the designers). M-B designers on the other hand either didn't have the thought or budget to do that, because they draw the line too high to show any correlation with the rear fender.

IMO the CLS would be stunning if they just carved a very subtly dropping line right through those dropping door handles, and seamlessly connected it into the top of the rear fender hump. Which is why that dropping line looks like an add-on afterthought to me which was done superfluously because they wanted to generate some "shock value".

 

[LaArtist]

The problem is, I think you're using your own interpretation of how the dropping line is supposed to motion, and draw too much of a point toward the rear bottom. When I look at the dropping line, I see a stubby end at too "middle" a part of the door, and I don't see the motion continuing into a sleeker drop as you drew.

As you see, you yourself connected the line to wrap around the wheel well, and had to bend the line toward the bottom (you can't expect others to see that as it simply isn't technically there, and doesn't even seem meant by the designers). M-B designers on the other hand either didn't have the thought or budget to do that, because they draw the line too high to show any correlation with the rear fender.

IMO the CLS would be stunning if they just carved a very subtly dropping line right through those dropping door handles, and seamlessly connected it into the top of the rear fender hump. Which is why that dropping line looks like an add-on afterthought to me which was done superfluously because they wanted to generate some "shock value".

 

[mini_cooper4]

I'm glad too, because that means he won't design for BMW, and that also means we won't see a BMW that looks like the starship Enterprise!

I'm more than glad too

 

[K-A]

Once again, Artist, you seem butt hurt that I'm right and you guys with your apologetically "imaginary lines" can't prove all the flaws I've pointed out via the CLS's disconnecting design wrong.

I can draw imaginary lines on any design and say "the Designers meant this", but if they didn't DO it, then there's no proof that they meant it.

I dare anyone to EXPLAIN how the lines AS THEY ARE make sense, no "imaginary lines" nonsense. I've never seen anyone have to draw imaginary lines onto a car to try and pass it off as coherent, until the CLS came along.

 

[klier]

^ With those 'imaginary lines', the CLS looks even more screwed up. And to compare the car with a boat, and the center being the star on the hood from which the water flows (or whatever) sounds too much like Scott or any other marketing BS story.
BTW, Thanasi, you forgot to draw in some of the most important lines on the side...I mean, that dropping line next to the rear wheel arch is the worst of them all. Please explain that line too.

Note that I do like the CLS, but I think the car would have been much better without a couple of lines. One strong line would be enough for me. The W204 has a perfect side.

 

[K-A]

^ With those 'imaginary lines', the CLS looks even more screwed up. And to compare the car with a boat, and the center being the star on the hood from which the water flows (or whatever) sounds too much like Scott or any other marketing BS story.
BTW, Thanasi, you forgot to draw in some of the most important lines on the side...I mean, that dropping line next to the rear wheel arch is the worst of them all. Please explain that line too.

Note that I do like the CLS, but I think the car would have been much better without a couple of lines. One strong line would be enough for me. The W204 has a perfect side.

Well put. Sounds like Scott when he's trying to cover up something.

Another good point. Once again somebody draws their interpretation of the CLS with some made up lines but it completely avoided the giant fender hump which is what forces the dropping line to cut short in such an IMO stubby fashion in the first place. it's really my whole point, Mercedes designers trying to do too many things at once, which imo affects the whole design and makes it come off as ultimately flawed.

 

[Merc1]

KA, you have really proved yourself to this forum and the world. You just outdo yourself with every comment. I sit back with friends and get a good laugh. This one especially took the cherry: “Once again…you seem butt hurt that I'm right.” What is your basis again? Right, you have none, it’s just silly old you. I may not have the same connection to Audi and BMW as much as I do with Mercedes-Benz, but that is not to say I shut myself down arrogantly or do not try to understand their designs. They are just ordinary, described exactly as I said above: designed with a “Point A to Point B” language already connecting the dots for you. What excitement does that bring to any individuals’ mind? It requires no process, no analysis, and no conception. Maybe that’s just my mind thinking as and industrial designer and mechanical engineer; who knows. But I suppose your tenacious little mind isn’t capable of comprehending more than an ordinary design. The amusing thing is that you hated the W212 when it came out, picking at it with the same negative way as you do with any new Mercedes-Benz model. Now you drive a W212 and ‘love it for its unique design’. The facelifted W212 debuts and you ‘hate the ponton fender flare’. That’s odd; you didn’t like it initially on the pre-facelift, then you seemed to comprehend it, and now you don’t like the different rendition of the wheel arch on the facelift E-Class. Can anyone cue the REPEAT button? So you see KA, you are a prime example of history foolishly repeating itself. Everyone has a right to critique a design, but you have the most uninformed and wrongful of intentions. Your issue does not lie with comprehending a design, it’s just you. With the best of intentions, I wish you inner peace.

I still say the new CLS just isn't as good looking as the previous car, but my god man this was a concise post (addressing several issues here) if there ever was one.


M

 

[klier]

I don’t know who Scott is so I’m not sure if you are trying to insult me.

Absolutely not. I respect you and enjoy reading your posts. I guess I was trying to say it sounded a bit like someone from MB marketing 'explaining' the design
Just like the BMW marketing crew saying the new 6er is designed around the concept of 'water', whatever the hell it may mean.

I'm sorry if I offended you, wasn't my intention! I quite liked reading into your thoughts about the CLS lines. But really, you forgot a few lines and I still wonder how they fit into the grand scheme...

Also, I do agree with the concept of 'imaginary lines'. In fact, every good design has them. But if these lines have to be drawn out on paper before people understand them, something is not right.

The same applies to the CLS. If you don’t understand it, well then I suppose some men on this planet are meant to find the straight women more appealing.

I don't want to compare a car to a woman, I can't agree with your logic here at all. A car is a car, made by man. Meaning it can be a success or a grand failure. A woman the creation of God himself (or nature.

 

[Merc1]

Correct Klier, I don't see the point of comparing the two either.

That said, is the same thing I used to say back when BMW had all these crazy looking cars and the BMW marketing/excuse makers were telling us that we didn't understand the design. That is a crock of SH. A good looking car doesn't need to be explained, studied, or anything, it instantly looks good. NO explanation needed. I have never seen so many excuses made during the time BMW was off their rockers. A good looking car, design or whatever you want to call it doesn't need any explanation. It just appeals.


M

 

[Merc1]

You guys are going to laugh, but I was riding next to one of these the other day and I think it is one of the most attractive cars around:

Yes the Hyundai Azera. Good handsome, especially the black one I saw.

M

 

[Hofmeister]

^ Its certainly not an ugly car, but I hate the koreans obsession with massive headlights! Why? Regarding Mercedes-Benz design, I'll just say that the current CLS needs to be seen IRL life to be fully appreciated IMO, it can look awkward from some angles in photos but it has real presence in the metal. I don't like the side-lines, as they do look a little fussy, especially when compared to a 6er GC but they don't ruin the cars appearance by any measure IMO. Incidentally the W212s profile is my favourite of the whole MB range because it so beautifully integrates the door handles into the swage line:

^ Why don't they do this with any other model?