Semi Tesla Semi Truck

[Sunny]

But all the EVs are just LOKALLY emission free autos and when the production of the battery is added to the equation it becomes more harmful than a compact ICE driven car. It is suitable only for city centers where the air is extremely polluted.

No. That is categorically false. There have been many well to wheel analysis of BEVs and ICE.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

No. That is categorically false. There have been many well to wheel analysis of BEVs and ICE.

Have you ever been to a waste lake of some kind of mine (It is not necessary to be of a lithium extraction one, it can also be a copper mine) to speak with such a certainty.

 

[klier]

No. That is categorically false. There have been many well to wheel analysis of BEVs and ICE.

Little doubt in my mind that making an electric car is more harmful than making an ICE car.
They might break even after a coupe of years of use, but the making itself? With all this horrible stuff they need for batteries and whatnot?

 

[Matski]

Little doubt in my mind that making an electric car is more harmful than making an ICE car.
They might break even after a coupe of years of use, but the making itself? With all this horrible stuff they need for batteries and whatnot?

If you imagine the lengths BMW have gone to with the i3 production (i.e. Hydro-electric power only at Moses lake, a new wind farm at Leipzig, making it out of natural/recycled/recyclable material etc. etc. etc.), well, that apparently rolls off the dealer forecourt with about the same environmental impact as a 118d, thereafter the i3 pulls ahead considerable in terms of how 'clean' it is, assuming an EU-27 energy mix.

The simple fact of the matter is burning hydrocarbons is non-renewable, non-recyclable, and dirty. The environmental balance will only shift further towards EV in time....



... until something no one thought of starts poisoning us....

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

If you imagine the lengths BMW have gone to with the i3 production (i.e. Hydro-electric power only at Moses lake, a new wind farm at Leipzig, making it out of natural/recycled/recyclable material etc. etc. etc.), well, that apparently rolls off the dealer forecourt with about the same environmental impact as a 118d, thereafter the i3 pulls ahead considerable in terms of how 'clean' it is, assuming an EU-27 energy mix.

The simple fact of the matter is burning hydrocarbons is non-renewable, non-recyclable, and dirty. The environmental balance will only shift further towards EV in time....



... until something no one thought of starts poisoning us....

You haven't mentioned anything about the production of the battery

 

[Sunny]

Have you ever been to a waste lake of some kind of mine (It is not necessary to be of a lithium extraction one, it can also be a copper mine) to speak with such a certainty.

Have you been to fracking site or an oil leak?

You haven't mentioned anything about the production of the battery

You haven't mentioned anything about drilling oil and transporting it?

I don't think you know what well to wheel analysis means. Taking a tiny sliver of a car's lifecycle is meaning less.

 

[Matski]

You haven't mentioned anything about the production of the battery

Because it is not a separate entity to the vehicle it goes into. I said "rolls off the dealer forecourt", and it doesn't roll off the dealer forecourt without a battery. The ISO14040 Lifecycle analysis methodology refers to environmental considerations and potential impacts along the life cycle of a product, from raw material mining & extraction to the manufacturing process, through a defined useage cycle, and on to the vehicle EOL recycling.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Have you been to fracking site or an oil leak?


You haven't mentioned anything about drilling oil and transporting it?

I don't think you know what well to wheel analysis means. Taking a tiny sliver of a car's lifecycle is meaning less.

You are changing the topic to the source of the energy, which is a different matter. If we bring the production of the electrical current into the conversation, than there is nothing worse on earth than the spent nuclear fuel and should we compare any oil spill to Fukoshima or Chernobil

 

[Sunny]

You are changing the topic to the source of the energy, which is a different matter

No it is a not different matter. It is the pretty much the entire matter. Talking about a tiny sliver of the vehicle's life cycle - the two days it takes to produce it, and ignoring the next 10 years how it effects the environment is just downright idiotic. It is like saying your toothache is worse than your mole while mole is really a malignant tumor.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

No it is a not different matter. It is the pretty much the entire matter. Talking about a tiny sliver of the vehicle's life cycle - the two days it takes to produce it, and ignoring the next 10 years how it effects the environment is just downright idiotic. It is like saying your toothache is worse than your mole while mole is really a malignant tumor.

It is not idiotic when you have the alternative the same car with just a little modification to be converted into methane fueled one. In that case you do not have the oil spills you even do not need rafineries but just a filtration fascility, is cheaper and much better for the enviroment

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

The simple fact of the matter is burning hydrocarbons is non-renewable, non-recyclable, and dirty. The environmental balance will only shift further towards EV in time....

This is not correct. Natural gas (Methane) is also a hydrocarbon and if you have an optimal burning process the emissions are only H2O and CO2 (if it is not optimal you may have either CO(very poisonous) or NOx)

 

[Matski]

This is not correct. Natural gas (Methane) is also a hydrocarbon and if you have an optimal burning process the emissions are only H2O and CO2 (if it is not optimal you may have either CO(very poisonous) or NOx)

Fair suggestion, so... burn Biogas in a power station, where it's likely combustion will be optimal, and what CO2 there is can be scrubbed more effectively than in a car, and use that power to charge electric cars. That then doesn't rely on deploying a Biogas/CNG infrastructure (high pressure pumps and tanks, distribution etc. etc.), or rely on people having high pressure CNG tanks in their car.

I actually like the concept of Biogas as it turns waste material into a usable resource, which is cool. But, undeniably, one of the benefits of EV's is that whatever breakthroughs, innovations or opportunities there are in power generation can be exploited by the existing customer base with no cost or aggravation towards end-user or manufacturer. Having had an LPG car before, I've lived with disadvantages of gas based fuels (the only advantage to me personally was that our government didn't tax it anywhere near as greatly as they do Petrol or Diesel).

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Fair suggestion, so... burn Biogas in a power station, where it's likely combustion will be optimal, and what CO2 there is can be scrubbed more effectively than in a car, and use that power to charge electric cars. That then doesn't rely on deploying a Biogas/CNG infrastructure (high pressure pumps and tanks, distribution etc. etc.), or rely on people having high pressure CNG tanks in their car.

I actually like the concept of Biogas as it turns waste material into a usable resource, which is cool. But, undeniably, one of the benefits of EV's is that whatever breakthroughs, innovations or opportunities there are in power generation can be exploited by the existing customer base with no cost or aggravation towards end-user or manufacturer. Having had an LPG car before, I've lived with disadvantages of gas based fuels (the only advantage to me personally was that our government didn't tax it anywhere near as greatly as they do Petrol or Diesel).

LPG is a petroleum product and it has nothing to do with CNG. There are many CNG cars on the market (even an Audi A5), that prove that this technology is usable. And the infrastructure is well developed in many regions of Europe, but the big issue with CNG is that is hard to put a hand on its distribution from geopolitical point of view and here the things become very complex

 

[Matski]

LPG is a petroleum product and it has nothing to do with CNG.

So you're telling me I don't need to store compressed gas in my car, or pump it with a sealed pressurised system from pressurised tanks, which is only available at a fraction of retailers?

There are many CNG cars on the market (even an Audi A5), that prove that this technology is usable. And the infrastructure is well developed in many regions of Europe, but the big issue with CNG is that is hard to put a hand on its distribution from geopolitical point of view and here the things become very complex

I'm not doubting the usability of the technology in principle, however it's worth noting that most (all?) of the CNG cars on the market are duel-fuel, so they are in effect closer to being plug-in hyrbids, just without the ease, commonality, or low cost of refueling the secondary powersource,

I mentioned that I liked the idea of Biogas, one of the reasons for that is that it should remove geopolitical issues as it can be generated pretty much anywhere where there is civilisation, if we're still dependent on the politics of nations that have to drill for it, I go back to my original point - it's non-renewable and non-recyclable (and still may push out as much CO2 as diesel in it's common applications).

I'm not against gas , just as I'm not against petrol/diesel, or Electricity, or even Hydrogen.. (and I'm a BIG fan of CH3NO2) as a means to power cars, each has its relative advantages and disadvantages... however the one thing electricity has going for it that the others don't, is that whatever the generation method, the car can still use it ... Wind, solar, hydro, tidal, geothermal, pig-shit, human-shit, rotting organic matter, landfill off-gassing, sedimentary carbon rocks, crushed liquified dinosaurs, breaking atoms, joining atoms.... ===> ONE type of car, one fuelling infrastructure... so as I said before, the balance will only shift more towards EVs, and that will bring with it the benefits (and drawbacks) of those things as they arrive.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I fully agree that the EVs are the future, but claiming that today they are better than ICE cars is just not correct. A big improvement in battery technology is needed and especially from ecological point of view so that it becomes competitive and better for the enviroment, which is the most important. Not only CO2 is bad, maybe it couses the global worming, but at least people can harmlessly inhale it, there are many other poisonning factors that should be taken into consideration.
I find it possible to electrify all the roads and the EVs to get their energy from the grid without storing it, so no battery is needed. That technology would have no competition and almost no bad sides, except initial investment.
Several years ago I participated in a study concerning internal transport in an open pit mine. And the best solution was to electrify the whole mine (even that in the areas of blasting the grid should be constantly removed and then returned later)

 

[Cashmere]

Less then a week later, the semi truck has surpassed 50 orders (that we know of). These deals are monumental for a company that has never made or sold trucks before.

The region’s largest privately owned mover, based in Sterling, has signed orders for four local day cabs — Tesla’s all-electric semi with up to a 500-mile radius.

https://www.bizjournals.com/washing...xt-move-could-be-in-a-tesla-jk-moving-to.html

Fercam could not book the Tesla truck directly, because now only companies based in the United States and Canada can do so. So, the South Tyrolean company has asked to do so to his US partner, Mao, who will receive the vehicle at his New Jersey headquarters and export it to Italy.We are also in contact with our major Daimler vehicle fleet supplier, for their electric truck but we have not yet managed to have a concrete commitment

Fercam ordina il camion elettrico Semi Tesla

I imagine Semi sales are going to be huge when they open up to the European market. Especially countries like Norway which is looking to further distance itself from oil and ICE vehicles.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Less then a week later, the semi truck has surpassed 50 orders (that we know of). These deals are monumental for a company that has never made or sold trucks before.

These customers should wait, because the first 5000 units will be delivered to Tesla employees only for their daily comute

 

[KiwiRob]

LPG is a petroleum product and it has nothing to do with CNG. There are many CNG cars on the market (even an Audi A5), that prove that this technology is usable. And the infrastructure is well developed in many regions of Europe, but the big issue with CNG is that is hard to put a hand on its distribution from geopolitical point of view and here the things become very complex

CNG used to be very popular in NZ until the late 90's then it disappeared, a lot of cars especially big old aussie clunkers and a large percentage of the taxi fleet were CNG, I hated filling them, they usually had the filler under the bonnet, you'd pull out a plug and attached the filler, one a day the o-ring on the filler failed, as I turned the spigot the filler blasted out, ripped off the line and hit the canopy.

 

[KiwiRob]

Less then a week later, the semi truck has surpassed 50 orders (that we know of). These deals are monumental for a company that has never made or sold trucks before.

There's always someone who wants to be the first, this doesn't really mean a lot. But if you really want to be impressed Nikola apparently have nearly 3 billion in orders for their hydrogen truck.

I imagine Semi sales are going to be huge when they open up to the European market. Especially countries like Norway which is looking to further distance itself from oil and ICE vehicles.

I was talking to my Norwegian trucker friend, he's not interested, the Norwegian trucking community (like from what I gather most truckers) think it's a bit of a joke, the price is also three times the price of a diesel powered truck. What the truckers are really interested in are the Toyota and Nikola hydrogen trucks, all the environmental benefits of the tesla truck but without all the negatives like reduced payload, limited range and slow refuelling.

 

[sako97]

Oh boy,