7 Series [Spy Shots] BMW G11/G12 LCI in the works...

[SCOTT27]

The large SUV market is growing, but the large limousine sector is as lucrative as ever. Recently from Bloomberg:

This is regarding the 7 on a global level.

BMW plans 7-series coupe to boost sales of top model line, report says

Yes this is old as it fails to address direct sales against all units of all variants.
But 7er again in top in Germany.

 

[SCOTT27]

The 7 series has been selling with a big discount in Chinese market for a while now,before that,it just didn't sell.

So does the S-Klasse sell at a discount. In fact any luxury vehicle will be offered discount or competitive lease rate whether in China,Europe or the USA.

 

[Star&Car]

So does the S-Klasse sell at a discount. In fact any luxury vehicle will be offered discount or competitive lease rate whether in China,Europe or the USA.

sure everyone does,but discount on S class is not as big as the 7 series does,that is the point.In fact,the S gives a very small discout.

 

[Star&Car]

So does the S-Klasse sell at a discount. In fact any luxury vehicle will be offered discount or competitive lease rate whether in China,Europe or the USA.

sure everyone does,but discount on S class is not as big as the 7 series does,that is the point.In fact,the S gives a very small discout.

 

[SCOTT27]

sure everyone does,but discount on S class is not as big as the 7 series does,that is the point.In fact,the S gives a very small discout.

They are about the same. Even more since the run out ahead of MOPF.

 

[fortuner]

So what changes are expected on the LCI anyone tell us this instead of making it a thread vs the S class.

 

[Yaz]

S-class sales are only gonna go up now that we're getting a V6. Uber/limousine drivers will love it.

 

[martinbo]

The S-Class is the segment leader. There's no doubt about that. This, however, does not mean that the 7er is an intrinsically inferior vehicle. Many people here seem to think that this is the only fact of the matter.

 

[EnI]

So, 7er is a sales disaster, a total disappointment, a complete failure ... just because S-class outsells it. Wow! So, what that tells about A8, LS, XJ etc which sell in even lower numbers than 7er. Are they a synonym for sales Armageddon? C'mon. Drama queens par excellence.

MB has done extremely well with W222 S-class - also offering it as Coupe & Cabrio & Maybach variant. The sales exploded. But that does not mean its rivals (7er, A8, Xj, LS) are obsolete or failures because they sell in (much) lower numbers.

Is C-class SEDAN a failure because it sells in lower volumes than 3er? Or A4?

Please don't be so dramatic. One man-child-in-chief is enough for the whole globe. Absolutely no need for additional ones. Especially not in the automotive world.

 

[fortuner]

So, 7er is a sales disaster, a total disappointment, a complete failure ... just because S-class outsells it. Wow! So, what that tells about A8, LS, XJ etc which sell in even lower numbers than 7er. Are they a synonym for sales Armageddon? C'mon. Drama queens par excellence.



MB has done extremely well with W222 S-class - also offering it as Coupe & Cabrio & Maybach variant. The sales exploded. But that does not mean its rivals (7er, A8, Xj, LS) are obsolete or failures because they sell in (much) lower numbers.

Is C-class SEDAN a failure because it sells in lower volumes than 3er? Or A4?

Please don't be so dramatic. One man-child-in-chief is enough for the whole globe. Absolutely no need for additional ones. Especially not in the automotive world.

Personell preference is by far the S class.

Regarding the C class in many countries it outsells the 3 series currently..

Anywyas this is a thread of the face lift 7 besides as per your post earlier Eni..The picture posted on page one is a old picture of the current car so this thread should be closed..

 

[sako97]

^ Agreed. It's turning into yet another moody 7/S internal combustion thread.

So, 7er is a sales disaster, a total disappointment, a complete failure ... just because S-class outsells it. Wow! So, what that tells about A8, LS, XJ etc which sell in even lower numbers than 7er. Are they a synonym for sales Armageddon? C'mon. Drama queens par excellence.

MB has done extremely well with W222 S-class - also offering it as Coupe & Cabrio & Maybach variant. The sales exploded. But that does not mean its rivals (7er, A8, Xj, LS) are obsolete or failures because they sell in (much) lower numbers.

Is C-class SEDAN a failure because it sells in lower volumes than 3er? Or A4?

Please don't be so dramatic. One man-child-in-chief is enough for the whole globe. Absolutely no need for additional ones. Especially not in the automotive world.

Please point out the posts or memebers that are being dramatic. And the members calling the 7 a total failure because I don't see where that is stated in this thread...

 

[Matski]

Please point out the posts or memebers that are being dramatic. And the members calling the 7 a total failure because I don't see where that is stated in this thread.

I think that is how @EnI has interpreted the eagerness with which S-class fans use this 'not-actually-news-to-anyone-since-an-LCI-is-inevitable' article about the G11 to revel in some confirmation bias - which helps to bolster the smugness induced by higher sales figures and better reviews - which, predictably, only seem to matter when the car they like is the beneficiary... and not if it's an E-Class.

... or at least that's how I see it.

I also think that Bloomberg article you posted is attempting to make a story out of nothing. It is misleading "reporting" at best. Comparing peak time sales of product A, against run-out sales of product B... and then introduction year sales of product A against peak time sales of product B to indicate the fall in popularity of 'new' product A, is deception via statistics in my opinion. The reality is both the S-Class and 7 series are generally selling better than ever, given their respective positions within product life cycle. They talk about a 40% deficit for the 7-er to the S, but not how the G11 was up 15% in its first year against the previous best-selling 7 series. The 7-er outsold the S once, this is not a neck and neck race, the S-Class is winning, easily, I don't mind admitting that, but in a year where S-Class sales fell by 20%, i.e. 21,900 units... and 7-er sales increased by 25,150 I have to question the validity and motivation of the Bloomberg report.

In fact,the S gives a very small discout

22% from MB UK when I looked last November, I don't know what it is on the 7-er, but that's not a small discount in my book.




Anyway... vaguely on topic, if the inevitable LCI - when it comes - disconnects the headlamps from the grille, I'd be happy.

 

[sako97]

Aside from the headlights, I’m don’t think much needs to be done on the exterior (come LCI time).

In top trim it’s very imposing. There’s a Alpine green B7 I see around town, which looks ace. Gives me E38 750iL vibes

And one of the classiest Individual 7s I’ve seen belongs to a BMW sales associate friend

 

[tristatez28lt1]

I trust @enl 100% when it comes to anything BMW but fact is that in the us the sales incentive on an average 7 series is 50% higher than on the s class (no MOPF). Generally BMW is giving extremely high incentives per car. BMW is behind mercedes when it comes to operating profit per car (BMW is still ahead of Audi). BMW 3250€ - MB 3690€ - Audi 2600€ (without costs for diesel gate).

The fact is also that the facelift of the 7 series will be the most expensive so far.

We also cannot forget that BMW under Kruger has been a little behind and not the powerhouse as they have been making investors a bit nervous. Sure they're doing really well (2.35 million sold, 9.5% return) but the i5 has been constantly not made it through the board, Mini isn't reaching its target of 500,000 sales, Kruger is scared to speak in public, the iNext isn't coming until 2021, and china is stagnating. Sure we can't blame Kruger but let's not pretend that BMW is on a roll like MB is right now. They're still doing well but we have clouds on the horizon.

 

[Nambi]

BMW 7 Series LCI Spied for first time. The test mule is camouflaged heavily and doesn't provide much details. We can only see the exhausts and the wheels, which look like standard BMW 7 Series bits. The taillights are mostly covered but they still look pretty much the same. Admittedly, they could be completely different underneath the camo, but that much isn’t visible from these photos.

source : fly-wheel.com via BMW Blog

 

[EnI]

OK ... Yes, 7er LCI is coming. AS PLANNED. In 2019. Nothing extraordinary & nothing forced. As posted in the official 7er thread: the spotted prototype is an old one, wearing license plate from the same bunch as others FEP prototypes the had been spotted in early 2015. It's either on old picture or the prototype is being transported to disposal facility.

Yes, it will be the most expensive facelift. As 7er facelift usually is since all the latest & best tech is incorporated in the LCI model. And in this particular case (G11 LCI) that will be even more evident. And there will be some other modifications too. But NO radical styling changes! Mind 2 new high-end BMW models are around the corner: 8er and X7. Therefore the existing one - 7er - has to be in line with all the tech, features etc the X7 & 8er will offer. Since the trio will represent BMW's (core brand) "holy trinity" - luxury SAV, luxury sedan, and luxury coupe / cabrio. It would be super weird eg. looking at X7 & 8er premiering some new tech & features etc while 7er waiting for the same stuff till the next Mk. No. 7er is getting all the X7 & 8er goodies with the LCI.

Regarding sales, part 1 ... guys, YOU seriously CAN NOT make assumptions based on what's going on @ your local dealer or in your neighbourhood. We are talking about GLOBAL products here. And all it counts are annual worldwide sales figures. And even there the product's life cycle line should be taken into account (since the sales figures fluctuate during the life cycle - which is normal!). So, yes ... some dealer are offering huge discounts, and having tons of unsold cars in the lot ... but that just the representative picture for your neighbourhood, not for the whole world!

Regarding sales, part 2 .... guys you do forget the total sales are limited with production capacities. Mind eg. that the current MB production capacities exceed those of BMW. Both companies (eg. Audi & Porsche etc as well) are constantly building new production capacities or expanding the existing ones. Or even outsource the production of some models to eg. Magna etc. So, when the total sales figures are increasing - meaning there is a demand for the brand - but not @ huge rate there are usually 2 main reasons: production of one or more high-volume models is phasing out due to Mk change; or production capacities are too limited and they represent a bottleneck for meeting the demand (not saying that's the case for 7er though - but more like for the SAVs). But new capacities are being built / expanded as we speak (China, Mexico, US, Germany etc) ... and also some models have been (and additional ones will be in the future) outsourced to Magna & Nedcar.
So, it's BMW Board's "fault" they were (too) late with increasing the production capacity. But even they are tied to 8-10% profit margin goal. So, they have to plan investments & other expenditures to meet that target. Eg. MB wasn't ashamed to dive well below 8% profit margin (of its Automotive division) when making huge investments - and it has paid off. MB isn't "ashamed" of more significant profit margin fluctuation. While BMW is very conservative when it comes to its 8-10% target. Meaning: they plan everything (R&D, production investments etc) around that target. Which is quite a limitation ... but it also prevents shortcuts and the company is therefore forced to optimize other expenditures. And that does produce a huge benefit in the long run!

Mind the models like 7er, LS, A8, Panamera, XJ etc are selling within the expectations & the known, predicted (sales figures over life cycle) frame. Nothing wrong there with either of the mentioned models. BUT it was the S-class that produced extraordinary sales results, outclassing all the others more than usual. Why is that? I don't know. Perhaps corporate sales have exploded (company cars, concierge cars, other kinds of shuttles & taxies etc). Perhaps individual sales have exploded. Perhaps rebranding CL coupe & cabrio and Maybach to S-class also have some kind of contribution to the stronger S-class FAMILY sales. Or it was a combination of all three mentioned factors. Who knows. No matter what: S-class is a HUGE success; but that does not make 7er, A8, XJ, LS etc failures because their sales increase is not as high as the one of S-class. Also: S-class is the pinnacle of this segment: #1 choice for most of the customers in this segment. All the others are "just" an alternative: eg. for customers wanting more dramatic styling, or less dramatic styling, or sportier ride, or sportier stance & appearance ... or just prefer some other brand than MB since it fits their life-style & image more.

 

[Matski]

We also cannot forget that BMW under Kruger has been a little behind and not the powerhouse as they have been making investors a bit nervous. Sure they're doing really well (2.35 million sold, 9.5% return) but the i5 has been constantly not made it through the board, Mini isn't reaching its target of 500,000 sales, Kruger is scared to speak in public, the iNext isn't coming until 2021, and china is stagnating. Sure we can't blame Kruger but let's not pretend that BMW is on a roll like MB is right now. They're still doing well but we have clouds on the horizon.

MINI sales are generally still on the up - 2015 was a record year, then so was 2016, 2017 sees full availability of the new Countryman so there's a good chance 2017 will be a record year for MINI too. I'm not sure about a 500,000 target at this point giving production capacity is overflowing to VDL at the moment. China is still seeing double digit growth but will inevitably slow down as the market gets closer to being satisfied.

As it happens Motorrad is doing better than ever too, which is good news if you're looking at operating profit per vehicle since the motorcycle segment posts higher €/bike values than the car segment does.

There is new product on the horizon that will generate both volume and/or good profit margins, the 8-er, the X7, the X2, and the Cullinan. The all electric 3 series will start to take the fight to Tesla. New and refreshed models such as the G30, the F52 and the G01 will give the 2017 Q2-Q4 numbers a boost.

There'll always be clouds on the horizon for manufacturers - I just think it's important to take a balanced view on things... something which certain parties, publications and websites don't always do. A case in point was the way people jumped on BMW's EBIT margin after last year - despite the fact that Sales, revenues, profits and EBT margin were all up... people just want a story so things get spun.

As for the i5, the way I see it, this was conceived as a model to sit alongside the i3 and i8. BMW's direction on this has clearly changed, iNext will showcase more autonomous tech innovation from BMWi, and the electrified offerings will fit into the core brand products, rather than the i-series.... this renders an i5 pretty much superfluous. iNext appears to be a car built around autonomy, rather than being a car that simply features autonomy. From what's been said iNext will be a halo type car for i, and is likely targeted at picking up 7-er customers once the G11/12 enters its sales contraction phase late in the second half of it's life.

 

[klier]

Regarding sales, part 1 ... guys, YOU seriously CAN NOT make assumptions based on what's going on @ your local dealer or in your neighbourhood.

Merc1 can.

They're still doing well but we have clouds on the horizon.

No we don't. We have a lot of sunshine for the future!
The glass is half full!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

No we don't. We have a lot of sunshine for the future!
The glass is half full!

I challenge anybody not to read Klier's posts in the voice of Donald Trump.

 

[martinbo]

The way I see it, this thread is not relevant to the actual G11 LCI. I reckon this conversation ought to be moved to the BMW AG What's Next thread. What say you?