7 Series [Spy Shots] BMW G11/G12 LCI in the works...

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I also have the feeling that BMW is losing its steam (in the field of cars, not SUVs) and the primal reasons for me to feel that way are the following:

The F20 is looking less dynamic than its predecessor-the Bangle sculptured E87, and I don’t mean the front part here, because after the facelift it is looking rather nice, but the side view. E87 had much better interplay between light and shadow and the prominent side line of the F20 being not parallel to the line of the windows doesn’t help either. I can only imagine how good it would look to have the E87 with the front of the F20 LCI. With switching to FWD in the future this car will lose its right to content for the title leader of the pack

For me the F30 is the weakest 3er in the last couple of decades. First the look of its front part was downgraded when the 4er was launched, then came the insignificant facelift which didn’t manage to put the car on par with MB C class and I believe that the remaining 2 years will be a struggle for BMW to keep it in the front of the sales statistics. 7 year for a life cycle are two much in the digital era and only the boom in China car sales in the last decade is hiding the downfall of this model .

G30 is a very nice car and I have almost nothing to complain about it.

In 2016 about 63k G10/11 were sold. I haven’t seen any detailed statistic for the Chinese market, but I believe that at least 50% of them are sold in China, which predetermines the way this car looks and feels inside. According to me, it is not exactly meeting the requirements of the European and US customers, who in the past were equally split between 7er and S class

 

[PanterroR]

The way I see it, this thread is not relevant to the actual G11 LCI. I reckon this conversation ought to be moved to the BMW AG What's Next thread. What say you?

^Agreed.

 

[Matski]

I believe that the remaining 2 years will be a struggle for BMW to keep it in the front of the sales statistics. 7 year for a life cycle are two much in the digital era and only the boom in China car sales in the last decade is hiding the downfall of this model .

A agree with this. Thanks to the internet we get so much exposure to new models before they're even launched, whether it's unofficial coverage and discussion, or pre-launch marketing activities. Some cars feel old by the time they even start their 7 year life cycle.

In 2016 about 63k G10/11 were sold. I haven’t seen any detailed statistic for the Chinese market, but I believe that at least 50% of them are sold in China,

I don't have any detailed numbers either, but Europe and US accounted for about 43% of 7-er sales in 2016, which does indicate that a large portion of sales, possibly the majority, came from the Asian markets.

 

[EnI]

There'll always be clouds on the horizon for manufacturers - I just think it's important to take a balanced view on things... something which certain parties, publications and websites don't always do. A case in point was the way people jumped on BMW's EBIT margin after last year - despite the fact that Sales, revenues, profits and EBT margin were all up... people just want a story so things get spun.

Exactly! And then there is eg. Tesla Inc. - burning other people's money like crazy ... Not generating profit at all (but loss!) even after 14 years of its existence ... Being even "able" to generate negative cash flow!!! And it's market capitalisation is about the same as the one of BMW AG or even higher! Although Tesla produces less than 100k cars annually (vs more than 2 million by BMW Group); generating loss & negative cash flow (vs BMW with billions of Dollars / Euros of profit & cash reserve every year). "Brave new world!"

But ... life, business, any affair is consisted of ups & downs. There is no constant up. It's not possible (even if up period is long). There's (even a slight) correction every time - not necessary eg. a negative result but slower growth for sure. And sometimes you're #1, sometimes #2, maybe even #3. But you still live! There are also the others, not just the champions. C'mon ... MB & BMW are competing for #1, and you are saying BMW "lost it" because it's currently on #2 spot, and following instead of leading? C'mon.

As said before: BMW AG are obsessed with 8-10% profit margin. Therefore their pricing is a bit too ambitious sometimes - resulting in slower sales but steady profit margins. And therefore their investment plans are sometimes too conservative (slower) than the ones of the rivals. But in the end business is all about profits - at least from the investors' POV. Unless you are throwing money at Tesla or any other start-up ... than is more a gamble than an investment.

As for the i5, the way I see it, this was conceived as a model to sit alongside the i3 and i8. BMW's direction on this has clearly changed, iNext will showcase more autonomous tech innovation from BMWi, and the electrified offerings will fit into the core brand products, rather than the i-series.... this renders an i5 pretty much superfluous. iNext appears to be a car built around autonomy, rather than being a car that simply features autonomy. From what's been said iNext will be a halo type car for i, and is likely targeted at picking up 7-er customers once the G11/12 enters its sales contraction phase late in the second half of it's life.

This is pretty much spot on! Mind i5 was planned as (most possibly hydrogen powered) family tourer / crossover. As BMW i has always been planned as an innovation oriented sub-brand (as opposed to BMW M which is focused on sporty driving or even racing) - not necessarily an EV sub brand as many times misinterpreted in media. It's a sub brand that focuses around the most trendy innovation & tech. Therefore the first two BMW i cars have demonstrated: a) CFRP (lightweight) constriction; b) styling & design (layering) that is possible with CFRP; c) electric drive; d) hybrid sports drive. But tech progress goes on quicker than expected & priorities / trends can also change. Therefore eg. hydrogen (fuel cells etc) is not THE thing yet. But autonomous driving is - and all the new ergonomics that comes with this tech.

So, instead of a hydrogen powered family tourer BMW decided to introduce a luxury tourer with full autonomous driving capability, consequently including new space layout. It will be the most passenger oriented BMW vehicle ever!

While mass-volume, family oriented BEVs will come soon as core BMW models in BEV variants. BMW i has moved on. Therefore the next i3 will be - as initially planned - "urban solution for personal mobility": completely connected & autonomous city car. While i8 will go fully electric and will be a futuristic alter ego to a conventional 8er.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

How does this change in the plans influence the collaboration with Toyota and the mutual project for fuel cell (hydrogen powered) car?

 

[Matski]

Therefore the next i3 will be - as initially planned - "urban solution for personal mobility": completely connected & autonomous city car. While i8 will go fully electric and will be a futuristic alter ego to a conventional 8er.

This is very interesting if correct..

 

[klier]

I also have the feeling that BMW is losing its steam (in the field of cars, not SUVs) and the primal reasons for me to feel that way are the following:

The F20 is looking less dynamic than its predecessor-the Bangle sculptured E87, and I don’t mean the front part here, because after the facelift it is looking rather nice, but the side view. E87 had much better interplay between light and shadow and the prominent side line of the F20 being not parallel to the line of the windows doesn’t help either. I can only imagine how good it would look to have the E87 with the front of the F20 LCI. With switching to FWD in the future this car will lose its right to content for the title leader of the pack

For me the F30 is the weakest 3er in the last couple of decades. First the look of its front part was downgraded when the 4er was launched, then came the insignificant facelift which didn’t manage to put the car on par with MB C class and I believe that the remaining 2 years will be a struggle for BMW to keep it in the front of the sales statistics. 7 year for a life cycle are two much in the digital era and only the boom in China car sales in the last decade is hiding the downfall of this model .

G30 is a very nice car and I have almost nothing to complain about it.

In 2016 about 63k G10/11 were sold. I haven’t seen any detailed statistic for the Chinese market, but I believe that at least 50% of them are sold in China, which predetermines the way this car looks and feels inside. According to me, it is not exactly meeting the requirements of the European and US customers, who in the past were equally split between 7er and S class

So BMW is losing steam because you personally find the design of the F20 and F30 not the best? Is this some kind of a joke maybe?
And what's not on par with the 3er compared to the C class, other than your totally subjective design issues?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Several hours ago you wrote that 420d GC which is 90% F30 can not hold a candle next to your 320d E90. What more should I say?
If you have time, go and check the latest comparison test of AMuS of 440i, S5 and C43

Also I wrote BMW is losing steam only at the cars sector, but in the SUVs one it will be the absolute dominator after 2018

 

[klier]

Several hours ago you wrote that 420d GC which is 90% F30 can not hold a candle against your 320d E90. What more should I say?

You should say whatever you feel like saying

I personally feel the 3er Li platform is not exactly a good match for the weak 20d engine. The car feels heavy, bloated and just not sporty. The car was fitted with the M package and still it felt like I was driving a luxury line or something similar. The E90 feels much more BMW to me. Nimble and sporty.
Of course I am well aware the tech side, safety side and comfort side are far better in the 4er GC, but it simply misses what I like in a BMW.

But you're right about the F20 and F30: I too find the E87 and E90 way more appealing. But saying BMW is losing steam because of that is kind of silly, no?

 

[SCOTT27]

I would not write off BMW yet as we are in that revolutionary period where everything is about to turn full circle.
A product offensive is underway which means upcoming replacements for the key strategic models such as the new X3 and next years G20 3er but also addressing the development and radical demographic change of the market to address the increase and progressive March of the SUV. Make no mistake each segment is dominated by the them and being cannibalised by them. Starting with the all new X3 and within the space of a year we will see BMWs entire line of X models refreshed,renewed and in the case of the X2 and X7 expanded.

BMW Has planned this strategy well in advance because we are fast approaching 1 million plus luxury units globally in the luxury class something the X7 wil aiming to capture a healthy market share especially as it will be the only one of its kind from the German contingent.
What you see with the X models is a whole portfolio of new models all ready to hit the market and be in the best advantageous position. So for some the next generation X5 is possibly more strategically important than the 3er.

Somewhat overlooked is BMWs agenda to increase both product and sales of the PHEV electric models under iPerformance.
The goal was 100,000 units something that is entirely reachable for 2017. All this and a new 3er the benchmark everyone measures to indicate how the industry has caught up. Now it's time to take the 3er in a different direction from before.
In some twisted way with the state of the market you could say the X3 is the "New" 3er.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I don't know what the production plans for the X3 are, but I expect that after the launch of X3L this SUV will sell in the excess of 350 000 units annualy and it will surpass the 3er, which will fall under this number

 

[SCOTT27]

I don't know what the production plans for the X3 are, but I expect that after the launch of X3L this SUV will sell in the excess of 350 000 units annualy and it will surpass the 3er, which will fall under this number

Not only X3 but you will have the X3L, X3 M and the iPerformance PHEV which we will learn about soon and an all electric X3 Concept. And I haven't even begun to start talking about this...

 

[hovabongZA]

That's a beauty.

 

[JPATT93]

I would not write off BMW yet as we are in that revolutionary period where everything is about to turn full circle.
A product offensive is underway which means upcoming replacements for the key strategic models such as the new X3 and next years G20 3er but also addressing the development and radical demographic change of the market to address the increase and progressive March of the SUV. Make no mistake each segment is dominated by the them and being cannibalised by them. Starting with the all new X3 and within the space of a year we will see BMWs entire line of X models refreshed,renewed and in the case of the X2 and X7 expanded.

BMW Has planned this strategy well in advance because we are fast approaching 1 million plus luxury units globally in the luxury class something the X7 wil aiming to capture a healthy market share especially as it will be the only one of its kind from the German contingent.
What you see with the X models is a whole portfolio of new models all ready to hit the market and be in the best advantageous position. So for some the next generation X5 is possibly more strategically important than the 3er.

Somewhat overlooked is BMWs agenda to increase both product and sales of the PHEV electric models under iPerformance.
The goal was 100,000 units something that is entirely reachable for 2017. All this and a new 3er the benchmark everyone measures to indicate how the industry has caught up. Now it's time to take the 3er in a different direction from before.
In some twisted way with the state of the market you could say the X3 is the "New" 3er.

Will this "revolutionary period" include a not so revolutionary styling approach?

I believe some BMWs have decent value proposition in terms of replacement models with the weight loss, connectivity, and other technological advancements. However, just like with the G11 7er, it doesn't look as new and advanced as it is, and as marketing would have us to believe.

Will this be the continued pattern for BMW or do you for see some excitement and creativity in the design language for production models? The Bangle days are long gone and nothing to that degree will probably ever be seen again, but just curious about the next step for BMW in terms of design.

 

[mini_cooper4]

You should say whatever you feel like saying

I personally feel the 3er Li platform is not exactly a good match for the weak 20d engine. The car feels heavy, bloated and just not sporty. The car was fitted with the M package and still it felt like I was driving a luxury line or something similar. The E90 feels much more BMW to me. Nimble and sporty.
Of course I am well aware the tech side, safety side and comfort side are far better in the 4er GC, but it simply misses what I like in a BMW.

But you're right about the F20 and F30: I too find the E87 and E90 way more appealing. But saying BMW is losing steam because of that is kind of silly, no?

The F36 shares the same platform with the F30 not the F35.
Both have a wheelbase of 2810cm.
What you're describing reminds me of my first experience behind the wheel of the F30 back in 2012.
I also felt no connection with the car.
The F30 and all its derivatives feel soulless and un-BMW like to me.

 

[Ruktam]

I did some little photoshop here to which I think and I hope the FL G11 will look like.
so I hope the OLED will finally arrives in the G11/12 which I think it will improve and enhance extensively the rear light design.

The grills are from the future luxury concept, the headlights are slightly slimmer. I think the new grill needs to look very expensive, more 3D and well built. the current one I find it cheap and too normal since day one.

I believed that BMW wont do much on the interior. maybe small changes on the side panel, new steering would improved the overall front dash design.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Looks very good, well done.

 

[maragulon]

BMW 7 Series Refresh photo

 

[EnI]

As said: no radical design changes but nip&tuck to get it in line with upcoming 8er & X7, incl new thinner headlights and taillights. Interior will also get some changes to be more on par with 8er and X7. Ready for MY 2019.

 

[klier]

As said: no radical design changes but nip&tuck to get it in line with upcoming 8er & X7, incl new thinner headlights and taillights.

You can already see how much slimmer because they didn't change the part attached to the hood! To show the very clear difference!

And what we see is an absolute MAJOR change, not just some new graphics. So pretty radical indeed, because it usually takes far less to call it day for BMW regarding facelifts.

Interesting to see what they're going to do with the front, because that's still pretty covered up.