Phantom [Spy Shots] 2018 Rolls-Royce Phantom (VIII)

[Matski]

Uhn, no BMW would have meant RR owned by VAG.

I think you took that out of context... perhaps because I dropped an extra comma in their for no apparent reason. What I was saying is that neither BMW or Rolls-Royce have a warrant with the British royal family... whereas Aston, Bentley, JLR and Vauxhall do. I'm sure Her Majesty probably does have a few Rolls-Royce's tucked away somewhere, but the fact is Bentley is the 'official' Luxury car of the Royal Family.

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And a Bentley is built for the Windsors?

Pretty much, yes, the Queens state limousine is a unique Bentley.

.. clearly Queen Elizabeth II is one side of the coin (literally, ha !) ... but you've still got the likes of Britney, Paris and Lindsay tarting about in Bentley's - so like I said before, it really is just down to who you perceive to be the typical clientele.

 

[klier]

I think you took that out of context... perhaps because I dropped an extra comma in their for no apparent reason. What I was saying is that neither BMW or Rolls-Royce have a warrant with the British royal family... whereas Aston, Bentley, JLR and Vauxhall do. I'm sure Her Majesty probably does have a few Rolls-Royce's tucked away somewhere, but the fact is Bentley is the 'official' Luxury car of the Royal Family.

​

Pretty much, yes, the Queens state limousine is a unique Bentley.

.. clearly Queen Elizabeth II is one side of the coin (literally, ha !) ... but you've still got the likes of Britney, Paris and Lindsay tarting about in Bentley's - so like I said before, it really is just down to who you perceive to be the typical clientele.

Yeah, but I meant the normal production Bentleys. Not this POS the Queen drives.

 

[LaArtist]

The mulsanne is Epic.
The continental Range is a joke.

 

[braaf]

This is the Best car in the world?,marketing bullshit.
This is one of the most expensive mass produced car,absolutely yes.

So i think the term "mass produced" is being bandied about loosely. Mass produced or continuous line production is a fully automated 24 hour operation and mostly associated with products like Coke and so on.

Automobiles and not mass produced but rather produced on an assembly line (Assembly line production). It has automation but there is a fair bit of human input in the manufacture of the vehicle when it comes to assembly. It is fair to say that they are produced in very high numbers.

Products like Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on are known as Job shop production and are made to order and are highly customisable to the purchasers needs, hence no mass production here or high numbers.

That's what sets them apart form the likes of VW and Toyota.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

So i think the term "mass produced" is being bandied about loosely. Mass produced or continuous line production is a fully automated 24 hour operation and mostly associated with products like Coke and so on.

Automobiles and not mass produced but rather produced on an assembly line (Assembly line production). It has automation but there is a fair bit of human input in the manufacture of the vehicle when it comes to assembly. It is fair to say that they are produced in very high numbers.

Products like Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on are known as Job shop production and are made to order and are highly customisable to the purchasers needs, hence no mass production here or high numbers.

That's what sets them apart form the likes of VW and Toyota.

Just FYI: A LOT of the RR cars are sold as stock cars...according to some dealers as much as 80%. So NOT always the one off customized cars perfectly reflecting customer wishes.

 

[braaf]

Just FYI: A LOT of the RR cars are sold as stock cars...according to some dealers as much as 80%. So NOT always the one off customized cars perfectly reflecting customer wishes.

The cars are still made to order. Maybe Eni or Scott can shed more light on the subject.

 

[klier]

The cars are still made to order. Maybe Eni or Scott can shed more light on the subject.

I believe the new Phantom is only going to be made on order. They are not going to make cars and then see who wants to buy them, and this includes dealerships.

 

[EnI]

Just FYI: A LOT of the RR cars are sold as stock cars...according to some dealers as much as 80%. So NOT always the one off customized cars perfectly reflecting customer wishes.

As I have warned many times: don't judge the sales situation by the local dealer(s) case. But some (local) markets sure are very, very specific - where "binge shopping" of luxury goods ... even of multi $100k worth items - is extremely popular. There such items - even RR Phantoms etc - HAVE TO BE on the lot.

But eg. in 2016 (globally) more 20% of all purchased Rolls-Royce cars were heavily bespoked! I unfortunately have no info on how many (in percentage of whole cars sold) were purchased from the lot, and how many were ordered in advance.

 

[tomazino]

 

[Giannis]

It does when (speaking entirely subjectively here) the brand has one of the most loyal customer bases of any manufacturer. BMW obviously improved Rolls-Royce massively when they bought the brand, but that's the reason you can't say BMW "started from scratch". They didn't start from scratch. They had a near 100 year name from which to build.

Toyota creating Lexus is "starting from scratch".

What??? It means everything. BMW bought the brand, created a factory, made a dealership network and pretty much spent millions upon millions just for a NAME. Because that name means everything. It's the most iconic name in the automotive world together with Ferrari. Priceless history and world famous.

So yeah, the fact that the badge exists since 1906 means everything. Or at least, it was the single most important reason why BMW wanted them so badly.

Read my post again, please, both of you.

I wrote that from an engineering perspective, a 100 years old of brand history means nothing when you develop a new product, a new factory, a new production line and technique, a new everything from a piece of blank paper.

Yes, the badge is the same since 1906 and the name is recognizable all around the world, but the BMW engineers that got to create the Phantom VII and its factory didn't use a previous Rolls model chassis as the beginning, or modified an existing factory production line. They created everything from scratch.

 

[martinbo]

And Betty & klier's perspective is that it takes more than just engineering to build a product. The value of the Rolls Royce brand cannot be disregarded as its the brand that has the traction - and hence desirability - in the marketplace, not the engineering. Any other go-to-market analogy is as simply straightforward: you may have the wherewithal to create a product but if you don't have the wherewithal to invest in building the brand, chances are you'd end up with nothing. The value of the Rolls Royce brand was well established when BMW took it over, they in turn needed to produce a suitably engineered product to deliver on the expectations already associated with the brand.

You can't sell what nobody wants - no matter how well engineered it is.

 

[klier]

You can't sell what nobody wants - no matter how well engineered it is.

Case in point, the Maybach. It was in some ways superior to the Phantom.

I wrote that from an engineering perspective, a 100 years old of brand history means nothing when you develop a new product, a new factory, a new production line and technique, a new everything from a piece of blank paper.

But my point is that people don't care about an engineering perspective when they buy their Rolls. It's a nice extra at best. They care about the Spirit of Extacy on the bonnet, the brand and the prestige. Otherwise people would be better off with an S class, which has been better than the Phantom in every way since the W222 launched.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Read my post again, please, both of you.

I wrote that from an engineering perspective, a 100 years old of brand history means nothing when you develop a new product, a new factory, a new production line and technique, a new everything from a piece of blank paper.

Yes, the badge is the same since 1906 and the name is recognizable all around the world, but the BMW engineers that got to create the Phantom VII and its factory didn't use a previous Rolls model chassis as the beginning, or modified an existing factory production line. They created everything from scratch.

Oh I understand what you're saying. From an engineering perspective and ignoring the brand "Rolls-Royce", BMW did start from scratch. I agree. But my point would be "why ignore the brand"? That's a MAJOR part of the success of BMW's ownership of Rolls-Royce, and probably just as important. Put it this way, if BMW had just created a luxury car company out of nothing, like Lexus, I doubt they'd be selling the same vehicles for £300,000 a time, and have people all over the world buying them as the ultimate statement of wealth.

 

[Merc1]

And Betty & klier's perspective is that it takes more than just engineering to build a product. The value of the Rolls Royce brand cannot be disregarded as its the brand that has the traction - and hence desirability - in the marketplace, not the engineering. Any other go-to-market analogy is as simply straightforward: you may have the wherewithal to create a product but if you don't have the wherewithal to invest in building the brand, chances are you'd end up with nothing. The value of the Rolls Royce brand was well established when BMW took it over, they in turn needed to produce a suitably engineered product to deliver on the expectations already associated with the brand.

You can't sell what nobody wants - no matter how well engineered it is.

A la the 2004 Maybach.

M

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

A la the 2004 Maybach.

M

Maybach didn't "started from scratch". Technically the car was based on W140

 

[Merc1]

Maybach didn't "started from scratch". Technically the car was based on W140

I didn't say it did, I was posting that from the point he made about having great engineering yet it didn't mean anything because the brand equity wasn't there.

M

 

[Giannis]

You can't sell what nobody wants - no matter how well engineered it is.

But my point is that people don't care about an engineering perspective when they buy their Rolls.

But my point would be "why ignore the brand"?

You guys are tough to please. All I said was that I agree with Martin in the second part of his statement:

Historically, BMW did not start from scratch; technologically, they did. Difficult point to debate.

Of course the badge matters in selling cars - I'd be mad to say otherwise. I only commented on Martin's original remark from an engineering perspective.

Can we get over this now, please, or do you find it enjoyable to crucify me?

 

[SDNR]

And a Bentley is built for the Windsors? Or any other brand for that matter?

Relax klier, I was simply making the point that Rolls-Royce is no longer burdened with the image of it being a symbol of the establishment. Of course I was generalising ....Rolls-Royce has alway been popular with the newly rich as much as it was associated with nobility. The same can be said of Bentley of course. These companies have to go where the money is ....and great fortunes are usually new fortunes.

 

[SDNR]

...the Queens state limousine is a unique Bentley.

We can only be grateful that it is unique. It really is quite a monstrosity.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

... or do you find it enjoyable to crucify me?