Hot! Porsche: What's Next

[Swissbob]

It’s indeed a little bit more than 0.

2024/25 season analysis: German TV channel DF1 increases Formula E ratings by 43% - e-formula.news

The 16 Formula E races of the eleventh season have reached an average audience of 37,313 spectators in Germany. This corresponds to growth of 42.8 per cent compared to the previous season. Free TV channel DF1 was also able to increase its market share. In contrast, there was a decline in the...

e-formula.news

F1 is in Germany mostly in pay TV.

https://de-motorsport-com.translate.goog/f1/news/tv-quoten-katar-ueberdurchschnittliche-zahlen-fuer-sky-und-orf-25120211/3438089/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

[Matski]

It’s indeed a little bit more than 0.

Great.

Why are you comparing it to F1? How does WEC do compared to F1? Why are you looking at Germany alone? What are the comparative numbers for series like NASCAR, IndyCar, DTM and BTCC both internationally and in what ever region you choose? Can you post any data that supports your original comment "Nobody watches Formula E".

I spared the thread any discussion around comparative numbers, because I know useful data isn't out there - but if you're you're going to hinge your argument on it, I'm simply going to have to ask for representative sources - and when (or if) you do post them I may choose to simply discount them because "I'm skeptical lol".

You hate EV's, you are the Vegan in the joke "how do you know if someone's a vegan - don't worry, they'll tell you". Porsche's profits are cratering, their largest motorsport bill is in a series in which they have openly stated they are being regulated against, and subsequently not winning - what's the business case for continuing?

edit: I apologise in advance if I'm coming across as combative, but if there's one thing guaranteed to wind me up, it's Christmas, so I'm already in a bad mood!

 

[klier]

edit: I apologise in advance if I'm coming across as combative, but if there's one thing guaranteed to wind me up, it's Christmas, so I'm already in a bad mood!

We even have an official 2nd Christmas Day, so image the agony across the pond.

Anyways, Cheers! One more for the night with a little ice.

 

[Swissbob]

Great.

Why are you comparing it to F1? How does WEC do compared to F1? Why are you looking at Germany alone? What are the comparative numbers for series like NASCAR, IndyCar, DTM and BTCC both internationally and in what ever region you choose? Can you post any data that supports your original comment "Nobody watches Formula E".

I spared the thread any discussion around comparative numbers, because I know useful data isn't out there - but if you're you're going to hinge your argument on it, I'm simply going to have to ask for representative sources - and when (or if) you do post them I may choose to simply discount them because "I'm skeptical lol".

You hate EV's, you are the Vegan in the joke "how do you know if someone's a vegan - don't worry, they'll tell you". Porsche's profits are cratering, their largest motorsport bill is in a series in which they have openly stated they are being regulated against, and subsequently not winning - what's the business case for continuing?

First of all, thank you for your detailed answers.

They tempted me to do some research, because I think the topic is really interesting.

NASCAR and Indycar are as expected US things, in Europe the audience is indeed very limited, the DTM is outside of Germany not very popular either , the BTCC is outside of the UK also not a big thing.

F1 is the elefant in the room.

IMHO Instead of Audi, they should’ve used Porsche for the F1 Team.

I agree with you, it’s indeed very difficult to get hold of real numbers regarding the WEC.

24h Le Mans 2023 had 113m spectators, that’s what I was able to find.

Why Germany, it's the home of Porsche, their newspapers still have some influence in Zuffenhausen.

One example , the 24h Nürburgring has 280000 spectators on the racetrack.
That shows how small the audience of 37000 people is.

I don’t hate EVs, but If they already have a F-E team, it’s IMO nonsense to bring another one.

Especially in the current business situation.

Pulling out of WEC without pouring money on a 2. Formula E Team would be understandable.

I must admit, that the audience of F-E is indeed much higher than expected, because in Europe it’s indeed very small.

Regarding Le Mans I guess, that the ACO doesn't want a LMDh to win the race instead of a ACO Hypercar.
And I guess the ACO expected Porsche to build a Hypercar as well.

 

[Swissbob]

edit: I apologise in advance if I'm coming across as combative, but if there's one thing guaranteed to wind me up, it's Christmas, so I'm already in a bad mood!

No problem

Apologies If I was a little bit to aggressive.

I am not a big Christmas fanboy either.

 

[Titot]

Preparing for the potential cash cow/cash grabbing M1 SUV.

Porsche expands Leipzig plant: new M1 SUV with ICE & PHEV

Porsche to build new M1 SUV in Leipzig with combustion and plug-in hybrid options, while Macan becomes EV-only. Series production planned for the late decade.

www.32cars.ru

 

[Design FIRST]

... but if there's one thing guaranteed to wind me up, it's Christmas, so I'm already in a bad mood!

I can second that. I have found "The Season" quite unbearable for quite some time. Probably as of my later teens. And my wife and I agree that it once again sucked this year. Bah Humbug ! But fortunately, our moods began brightening up as of yesterday ! And we'll be really pleased when 2025 is finally behind us. The further behind us the better. It certainly wasn't the best of years for us.

 

[AndreB]

EVs are perfect as grocery getters or to drive to work and back.

EVs are BS for emotional Cars or sportscars, and for long distance driving.

Aside of a sports car or super car I will take an EV over any other car.

I'm selling my Taycan and I already feel like I will really miss the silence and smoothness of the electric drive. My Cayenne S with V8 feels like a sluggish old car.

 

[Design FIRST]

Aside of a sports car or super car I will take an EV over any other car.

Rationale would also leave me seeing absolutely no reason to attempt to delay the proliferation BEVs and the expansion of the infrastructure required. And this not only pertaining to more "pedestrian" sorts of vehicles, but also larger executive segment/luxury segment vehicles as well. And frankly, I find the EU move to delay the ICE ban a mistake firmly anchored in reactionary shortsightedness that may seriously backfire. Just for the record, I've never placed my ballot for the Greens in my entire life, although they've arguably presented the occasional legitimate argument on an issue or two. So no fervent underlying environmentalist ideology on my part.

Personally, I see classic vehicles as a suitable "fix" for genuine, nitty gritty nuts and bolts, petrolheads. Were I in the market, I'd certainly take a Taycan over a Panamera. Who knows-maybe even a Cayman-e over one with an ICE. But with some change to spare, I'd be searching for that elusive 356B Super 90 coupe as well.

 

[Big Sam]

I certainly would not be happy paying another bill, but regulators are much to blame for the current status of the European car industry. The last pearl I have read about is the EU is going to force car makers to use recycled plastic on cars, which will translate into a 15-20% price increase.

They are a disease. Trully.

This sounds like utter nonsense. No figures. No explanation. Just a claim without anything to back it up.

740d, at 130km/h 5.6L/100km and 78L Fueltank.

The best BMW for traveling. To fill up 78L takes 3min. Still a little bit faster than charging an EV.

And this is my standard response to remind people that I have the choice of BEV or ICE for every long-distance journey I make, and I take the BEV every time. I'm in the middle of a week of visiting family over Christmas (covering 2,000km in the process), and the narrative you describe for living with an EV just isn't my reality. I do wonder if you just haven't understood EVs at all.

 

[klier]

This sounds like utter nonsense. No figures. No explanation. Just a claim without anything to back it up.

BMW is actively integrating recycled plastics into its manufacturing. Not just as a novelty, but as a core part of its sustainability strategy for future models. Their plastics already are made of marine waste, old PET bottles, fish nets and whatnot.

The new iX3 arguably uses the most recycled material ever on a BMW, and yet the car on average is cheaper than the vastly inferior previous version of the iX3.

 

[SKY]

This sounds like utter nonsense. No figures. No explanation. Just a claim without anything to back it up.

And this sounds like classic Betty. Harsh wording each time someone comes and claims something you somehow disagree with. In this case, your boring defense of the EV industry based on the fact that you own one. Which is as human as tiresome.

 

[klier]

And this sounds like classic Betty. Harsh wording each time someone comes and claims something you somehow disagree with.

To be fair, this is not something you can have an opinion about. It's about actual facts and numbers. Your claim needs to be backed up and I too fail to see why there'd be an incredible price increase when you use recycled materials. In fact I showed in my previous post it's actually the opposite if anything.

He wasn't even defending the EV industry as your claim was about the increase of prices due to recycled materials, right? They do that in ICE cars too and it has nothing to do with the EV industry.

 

[Swissbob]

And this is my standard response to remind people that I have the choice of BEV or ICE for every long-distance journey I make, and I take the BEV every time. I'm in the middle of a week of visiting family over Christmas (covering 2,000km in the process), and the narrative you describe for living with an EV just isn't my reality. I do wonder if you just haven't understood EVs at all.

If it works for you, that’s fine
I need to clarify, I drive long distances usually trough the night, and TBH I don’t feel safe sitting 30min on a fastcharger middle in the night in the nowhere without lights or security.

 

[Big Sam]

And this sounds like classic Betty. Harsh wording each time someone comes and claims something you somehow disagree with. In this case, your boring defense of the EV industry based on the fact that you own one. Which is as human as tiresome.

1) There's nothing to disagree with. You posted a claim from something you've read somewhere with little detail and no numbers.
2) You didn't specifically refer to EVs, just cars, so I've no idea why you're claiming I'm defending EVs.
3) You get personal despite me not getting personal with you. "This" sounds like utter nonsense is referring to the claim you're repeating.

 

[Big Sam]

If it works for you, that’s fine
I need to clarify, I drive long distances usually trough the night, and TBH I don’t feel safe sitting 30min on a fastcharger middle in the night in the nowhere without lights or security.

I have driven EVs all over Europe, and I drive solely at night if I can help it, which is 95% of the time. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to be in this situation. If I ever did encounter a charging station like this, I would just use one I'm happy with. It's literally no different to having to refuel an ICE at night in a petrol station which is unmanned. If you feel vulnerable, don't use it.

It's another problem that I personally don't find reflects reality.

 

[klier]

If it works for you, that’s fine
I need to clarify, I drive long distances usually trough the night, and TBH I don’t feel safe sitting 30min on a fastcharger middle in the night in the nowhere without lights or security.

Not safe in Switzerland
You really have to come up with a better excuse here my friend, LMAO

What are you even afraid of at night? Werewolves?

 

[Swissbob]

Not safe in Switzerland
You really have to come up with a better excuse here my friend, LMAO

What are you even afraid of at night? Werewolves?

Switzerland is not an issue, but TBH I don’t feel safe in Italy or some parts of France and Germany.

But I guess I am a little but anxious. Not Werewolfes but criminals with knives, who wants to rob me.

 

[Swissbob]

I have driven EVs all over Europe, and I drive solely at night if I can help it, which is 95% of the time. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to be in this situation. If I ever did encounter a charging station like this, I would just use one I'm happy with. It's literally no different to having to refuel an ICE at night in a petrol station which is unmanned. If you feel vulnerable, don't use it.

It's another problem that I personally don't find reflects reality.

That’s interesting. Thank you very much for your feedback.

If something happens while am filling up the car, I can still take the fuel nozzle to spray him with petrol.

Yes I feel vulnerable, not in Switzerland but in Italy or some parts of France.

 

[Big Sam]

That’s interesting. Thank you very much for your feedback.

If something happens while am filling up the car, I can still take the fuel nozzle to spray him with petrol.

Yes I feel vulnerable, not in Switzerland but in Italy or some parts of France.

I think you've been watching too many Hollywood films.