Hot! Porsche: What's Next

[klier]

Discontinuing it was a big mistake.

Cybersecurity mandates. The Macan based off the Q5 Typ 8R 2008 was ever so slightly outdated believe it or not....
It's not like they had a choice. Same with the 718

It's just all around horrible product management. People should be fired for this f#cking mess.

 

[SKY]

Fascinating. Leading industry groups spending billions on a product forced over customers by the regulators, having to spend billions again to re-adapt its product offering to what customers really want.

The pitty is that these companies cannot pass the bill to Brussels.

 

[klier]

The pitty is that these companies cannot pass the bill to Brussels.

What??? So that we taxpayers end up paying for idiotic decisions?

The regulators have nothing to do with it. Stop blaming them for poor management. Porsche's ICE platforms were f#cking relics, and they decided to go all in on BEV.

 

[SKY]

What??? So that we taxpayers end up paying for idiotic decisions?

The regulators have nothing to do with it. Stop blaming them for poor management. Porsche's ICE platforms were f#cking relics, and they decided to go all in on BEV.

I certainly would not be happy paying another bill, but regulators are much to blame for the current status of the European car industry. The last pearl I have read about is the EU is going to force car makers to use recycled plastic on cars, which will translate into a 15-20% price increase.

They are a disease. Trully.

 

[Matski]

The last pearl I have read about is the EU is going to force car makers to use recycled plastic on cars, which will translate into a 15-20% price increase.

Price increase in what?

 

[klier]

Yikes

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[Swissbob]

BTW did anybody else noticed that Porsche pulled out of Le Mans but will be in the Formula E with 2 teams.

Porsche Motorsport announce additional Formula E entry from 2026/27

Porsche Motorsport has announced that from Season 13 (2026/27) onwards, the German manufacturer plans to field two teams under its own marque, to compete in the ABB FIA Formula E World Championship, marking its ambitions in top-level motorsport.

www.fiaformulae.com

 

[martinbo]

Porsche was mislead by the EU legislators into believing that the long-term strategy for compliance and sustainability lay in an EV-only product portfolio. Porsche had no choice but to invest heavily in BEVs. The knock on effect resulted in higher prices, narrowing the band of upper-middle class buyers with the means to buy a Porsche and creating greater dependency on the upper class demographic.

In the past, Porsche had a balanced portfolio of models lending broad appeal and value proposition. The Cayenne made the brand more accessible for family use (Panamera and Macan followed suit), the Boxster/Cayman enabled an affordable entry point to the Porsche sports car experience while 911 anchored the brand’s image and desirability.

Clearly, Porsche’s mainstream product investment has been too BEV-focused. This coupled with an unanticipated downturn in electric vehicle adoption outside of China (along with China’s unforeseen leadership in EV progress) means that Porsche has over-invested in BEVs at the expense of profitability. The delay and about turn on the next generation 718 is emblematic of the pitfalls of their BEV-loaded strategy.

 

[SKY]

Porsche was mislead by the EU legislators into believing that the long-term strategy for compliance and sustainability lay in an EV-only product portfolio. Porsche had no choice but to invest heavily in BEVs. The knock on effect resulted in higher prices, narrowing the band of upper-middle class buyers with the means to buy a Porsche and creating greater dependency on the upper class demographic.

In the past, Porsche had a balanced portfolio of models lending broad appeal and value proposition. The Cayenne made the brand more accessible for family use (Panamera and Macan followed suit), the Boxster/Cayman enabled an affordable entry point to the Porsche sports car experience while 911 anchored the brand’s image and desirability.

Clearly, Porsche’s mainstream product investment has been too BEV-focused. This coupled with an unanticipated downturn in electric vehicle adoption outside of China (along with China’s unforeseen leadership in EV progress) means that Porsche has over-invested in BEVs at the expense of profitability. The delay and about turn on the next generation 718 is emblematic of the pitfalls of their BEV-loaded strategy.

Jeez. Three simple paragraphs. That's all the space needed to perfectly explain Porsche situation. Disregard videos from silly youtubers or long articles on car websites. This is exactly the situation of the brand IMO.

Being optimistic, I think Porsche will be good. I have a few friends lucky enough to drive around on a Porsche and the experience is something else. The perfect balance of style, driving pleasure, quality... Without having to go too exotic like Ferrari or Lambo.

Customers will in the end benefit from all this. Car like the new 718 ICE will stand out in the world we have ahead.

 

[klier]

Porsche was mislead by the EU legislators into believing that the long-term strategy for compliance and sustainability lay in an EV-only product portfolio. Porsche had no choice but to invest heavily in BEVs. The knock on effect resulted in higher prices, narrowing the band of upper-middle class buyers with the means to buy a Porsche and creating greater dependency on the upper class demographic.

In the past, Porsche had a balanced portfolio of models lending broad appeal and value proposition. The Cayenne made the brand more accessible for family use (Panamera and Macan followed suit), the Boxster/Cayman enabled an affordable entry point to the Porsche sports car experience while 911 anchored the brand’s image and desirability.

Clearly, Porsche’s mainstream product investment has been too BEV-focused. This coupled with an unanticipated downturn in electric vehicle adoption outside of China (along with China’s unforeseen leadership in EV progress) means that Porsche has over-invested in BEVs at the expense of profitability. The delay and about turn on the next generation 718 is emblematic of the pitfalls of their BEV-loaded strategy.

Porsche wanted to be ahead of the curve and gambled on EV. They made the wrong bet and now suddenly everybody is moaning about being mislead and whatnot. They gambled and they lost. If they would have 'won' everybody would be saying how smart and awesome they were.

I personally find this a very weak excuse. Nobody forced them into the position they're in right now. Going all BEV this quick for a brand that makes sports cars was just an all around stupid money grab that didn't pay off, and heads will have to roll at the top because of this. Who in his right mind thought an EV Boxter would sell? Only fools.

There also is no downturn in EV adoption, it's the exact opposite in fact. It's just that some brands (like Porsche) aren't made for EV. Just like the upcoming Ferrari EV; that car will fail miserably as well. As will the AMG EV 4 door.

High end and EV simply don't go well together. Just look at the Rolls Royce Spectre and see what such a car is worth after driving it for a year.

 

[klier]

Jeez. Three simple paragraphs. That's all the space needed to perfectly explain Porsche situation.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a Board making all the wrong decisions. Of course not.

Porsche wanted to be first, they gambled on a full EV lineup in 2025 even when the supposed laws were many years in the future. They wanted to be ahead and make a lot of money off their belief of people actually wanting an EV Cayman, an EV Boxter, an EV Cayenne, or an EV Macan.

They actively killed their ICE cars even though they were not required. They actively waited far too long to replace the Cayman and Macan to the point they couldn't even be produced anymore because of utterly outdated cybersecurity compatibility.

They did it all to themselves and nobody is to blame but them. Just all around horrible management.

 

[Matski]

BTW did anybody else noticed that Porsche pulled out of Le Mans but will be in the Formula E with 2 teams.

WEC/Le Mans is much more expensive than Formula E, and at the moment - with Ferrari being dominant - it's doing little to add to Porsche's already perfectly well established reputation - and rubbing salt into this wound is the fact they openly been bickering with the organisers over their BoP, which they've stated isn't fair, and cost them an LM24 victory.

Formula E, is a lot cheaper (cost capped), doesn't have a BoP, and is probably a more focused way of spending R & D money in motorsport.

Since finances are crumbling, it could be viewed as a no-brainer.

 

[Swissbob]

Nope Formula E is nonsense because nobody watches it.

They’re still in the GT3, which is sufficient.

Ferrari dominates Le Mans because they cheat with the flexi wings, I guess they blackmail the ACO, that they’d pull out If they forbid the flexi wings.

 

[Matski]

Nope Formula E is nonsense because nobody watches it.

Formula E got about half a Billion viewers across last season, there's not really enough data to meaningfully compare that to much else, so I'm not going to waste my time trying - it's simply objectively true that half a billion views doesn't happen if nobody watches, and even if you take lower estimates and divide that by the number of viewing events in the season it's still nearly 30,000,000 actual people watching a race - again, not nobody, and I'd suggest, it's actually a large number of people.

Since many series which don't have FIA World Championship Status, but are enjoyed by tens of millions of people globally, don't get the same kind of viewing numbers... it's simply not a sensible benchmark for deciding if a series is nonsense or not, it would render the majority of motorsport 'nonsense'.

Ferrari dominates Le Mans because they cheat with the flexi wings, I guess they blackmail the ACO, that they’d pull out If they forbid the flexi wings.

The flexibility of wings is governed by a rule that is tested against when approving or scrutineering the car. As it stands passing the test makes whatever degree of flex they're achieving not illegal. I've gone on about this before in F1 threads, personally I don't like that breaking the spirit of the rules is totally over-ridden by adherence to phrasing in the technical regulations, but it is what it is.

 

[Swissbob]

Regarding the flexibility of the wings, in that case it’s crazy that other manufacturers like Porsche aren’t using the same trick. I guess Porsche could easily develop the same wings.

Regarding the Formula E numbers, I am very skeptical.
Maybe that’s 30m Bots SCNR.

Even the Sport Auto Magazine admitted, that the Formula E numbers are cooked.

 

[Swissbob]

Porsche wanted to be ahead of the curve and gambled on EV. They made the wrong bet and now suddenly everybody is moaning about being mislead and whatnot. They gambled and they lost. If they would have 'won' everybody would be saying how smart and awesome they were.

I personally find this a very weak excuse. Nobody forced them into the position they're in right now. Going all BEV this quick for a brand that makes sports cars was just an all around stupid money grab that didn't pay off, and heads will have to roll at the top because of this. Who in his right mind thought an EV Boxter would sell? Only fools.

There also is no downturn in EV adoption, it's the exact opposite in fact. It's just that some brands (like Porsche) aren't made for EV. Just like the upcoming Ferrari EV; that car will fail miserably as well. As will the AMG EV 4 door.

High end and EV simply don't go well together. Just look at the Rolls Royce Spectre and see what such a car is worth after driving it for a year.

I agree 100% with you.

EVs are perfect as grocery getters or to drive to work and back.

EVs are BS for emotional Cars or sportscars, and for long distance driving.

 

[klier]

EVs are BS for emotional Cars or sportscars, and for long distance driving.

Is there another BMW in the lineup that can do 1000 km on a single go other than the iX3? Long distance is going to be the EV domain for sure.

And adding another 300 km is as fast as refueling your ICE.

 

[Swissbob]

Is there another BMW in the lineup that can do 1000 km on a single go other than the iX3? Long distance is going to be the EV domain for sure.

And adding another 300 km is as fast as refueling your ICE.

740d, at 130km/h 5.6L/100km and 78L Fueltank.

The best BMW for traveling. To fill up 78L takes 3min. Still a little bit faster than charging an EV.

 

[klier]

740d, at 130km/h 5.6L/100km and 78L Fueltank.

The best BMW for traveling. To fill up 78L takes 3min. Still a little bit faster than charging an EV.

Ok fine but you surely get my point. In a few years EV is far beyond any ICE in terms of range.

 

[Matski]

Regarding the flexibility of the wings, in that case it’s crazy that other manufacturers like Porsche aren’t using the same trick. I guess Porsche could easily develop the same wings.

Yep, but that's the way it is, it's really no different to running an 18:1 compression ratio when the limit is 16:1, because when you test it, it's only 16:1... same shit, different day. What's cheating, and what isn't generally comes down to whether or not it's your guys in the cross hairs or not.

Regarding the Formula E numbers, I am very skeptical.
Maybe that’s 30m Bots SCNR.

Maybe, but the figure that FIA/WEC ACO/Le Mans quote is derived from f#cking Yougov, and the rest of the season is clearly so not-impressive they've seemingly not published much (or any) data for years - hence I'm opting not to compare the numbers - in the absence of transparent data, it's surely only fair to apply the same degree of scepticism across the board... no?

That aside, your assertion is that the number of people who watch is zero, you can be sceptical of official press releases - I am too - but the burden is on you to prove that viewership is indeed zero, as that was your claim. Good luck with that.