Porsche/VW Saga


The whole story was a disaster. Especially Porsche's attitude (via Wiedeking), wanting to refuse to give VW any rights in the SE, which ended in a struggle between Porsche and VW.

Porsche felt overconfident and treated VW with some disdain. Now, they're feeling a cold wind.

Qatar buying a stake won't solve the problem. It'll ensure short-term money.

But Porsche has to do smthg with its shares, the two must find an economic model now that Porsche failed.

As far as Qatar is concerned... Well, you mess with the bulls, you get the corns.

Porsche wanted to play, they got burned, and now they have to live with somebody else in the house.

No big deal imo, Qatar is a long-term oriented investor who won't interfere much with the Board's decisions, imho.
 
No big deal imo, Qatar is a long-term oriented investor who won't interfere much with the Board's decisions, imho.


I'm not so sure about that. Porsche / VW boards proved to be completely incompetent. I don't think they can be trusted anymore. And any new major stakeholder will definitely want to have a clear oversight & even some control (eg. blocking right) over the company.

Till now Porsche operated under Piech/Porsche family affairs only - the other 50% of the Porsche investors were just there with their money, without any voting rights.

This is changing now ... Be sure investors will be much more interested what's going on in the company from now on.

There's no way back.

Be sure there will be no vanity projects like Veyron anymore etc.
 
Clearly the VW and Porsche board can't stay as they are. Some (big) heads have to fall after such a nightmare.

Wiedeking especially will have to go... Once the hero...

But besides that, I don't think the Qatar will interfere much. Maybe some vanity projects will be vetoed, could be, but not much more than that imo.

And, as the Arab investors are generally very much into green techs, I think they will push VW/Porsche into the new eco-friendly technologies, where they are quite lacking AFAIK.

I don't see it as a necessarily negative thing to have such an investor onboard.

It may have prevented them for daring the takeover in the first place, had Qatar been there before, as they are not at all interested in the Piëch/Porsche/Wiedeking power struggle!
 
Sure the Qatar investors won't interfere into daily operations of VAG - as you know all the automotive operative business will be concentrated in Volkswagen Group (incl. Porsche AG as a brand division / company - like eg. Audi AG).

So, the Porsche Holding will only be the owner of enlarged VAG (incl. PAG) ... But that means no more family affair business, no more ego-struggles, no more financial manipulation & engineering PAG was known for etc.

Mind the current Porsche investors lost a lot. And be sure Qatar state isn't ready for the same fate in the future. They will be much more active, protecting their investments - not like the current investors who just invest money, and left all the operations to Porsche/Piech drama queens.

So, VAG will have to run automotive business very effectivelly & transperently - since PAH's only revenues & profits will be generated by VAG dividends.

It's not a joke anymore. PAH will be completely dependend on VAG. And here the interest in the operative business kicks in. Operational business will be crucial for the PAH owners. And therefore they will be very much interested what will be happening there.

As said: no more family afairs, or state vs. family business etc (as it was the case in VAG case).

Qatar investors will be very interested in who will lead the VAG etc. And what VAG strategy will be for the future. Perhaps even some brands may be repositioned, sold, or put on ice (especially Seat, Bugatti, and Lamborghini brands are in peril IMO).

IMO it will be very interesting to monitor the situation in VAG & PAH after all settles down. There will be quite some novelties introduced, you'll see. On organizational & product planning level.
 
Btw, here are two interesting paragraphs i found in NYT:

Porsche has entered exclusive talks with the Qatar Investment Authority, the sovereign wealth fund of the energy-rich Persian Gulf emirate. It could acquire as much as 25 percent of Porsche’s voting shares, which have long kept the Porsche family firmly in charge. The Qataris, who would get a seat on Porsche’s supervisory board, may also purchase the options Porsche has on VW shares.


So, the Qatar investors will also get a man in the supervisory board, a blocking minority stake, and an options to buy VW shares from PAH. Meaning Qatar investors may also get a men in VW supervisdory board as well. And that is very interesting : since this way allows much more control over operating business as well.



In the early 1980s, the Porsche and Piëch clans beat back an attempt by an errant cousin, Ernst Piëch, to sell his shares to a Kuwaiti investor. Instead, the Porsches bought him out, ensuring Wolfgang Porsche’s appointment as chairman years later.

This explains why Porsche family has bigger stake in PAG than Piech family. And why there has been such a rivalry among the both families since then.


:t-cheers:
 
Sure the Qatar investors won't interfere into daily operations of VAG - as you know all the automotive operative business will be concentrated in Volkswagen Group (incl. Porsche AG as a brand division / company - like eg. Audi AG).

So, the Porsche Holding will only be the owner of enlarged VAG (incl. PAG) ... But that means no more family affair business, no more ego-struggles, no more financial manipulation & engineering PAG was known for etc.

Mind the current Porsche investors lost a lot. And be sure Qatar state isn't ready for the same fate in the future. They will be much more active, protecting their investments - not like the current investors who just invest money, and left all the operations to Porsche/Piech drama queens.

So, VAG will have to run automotive business very effectivelly & transperently - since PAH's only revenues & profits will be generated by VAG dividends.

It's not a joke anymore. PAH will be completely dependend on VAG. And here the interest in the operative business kicks in. Operational business will be crucial for the PAH owners. And therefore they will be very much interested what will be happening there.

As said: no more family afairs, or state vs. family business etc (as it was the case in VAG case).

Qatar investors will be very interested in who will lead the VAG etc. And what VAG strategy will be for the future. Perhaps even some brands may be repositioned, sold, or put on ice (especially Seat, Bugatti, and Lamborghini brands are in peril IMO).

IMO it will be very interesting to monitor the situation in VAG & PAH after all settles down. There will be quite some novelties introduced, you'll see. On organizational & product planning level.

Thanks, very informative and interesting.

I agree completely, in fact the whole business modell could have to change in Wolfsburg... It wasn't governed really rationally under Piëch, and it has a particular way of functionning (with a lot of power for the workers for instance), so let's see how that works out.

Wiedeking didn't manage to gain control over the workers, but refused to deal with them. This mistake shouldn't reproduce.

On the other hand, a rationnally run VAG+PAG would become such a behemoth, could really threaten Toyota's place on top of the carmakers!
 
On the other hand, a rationnally run VAG+PAG would become such a behemoth, could really threaten Toyota's place on top of the carmakers!


I'm sure investors will be much more interested in profit numbers then in sales numbers per se. As said: there is no time for some ego-driven prestigious fights (eg. topping Toyota in sales).

:usa7uh:

But VAG has a good chance to become most profitable car maker. That would be a nice indication it's possible for a non-Japanese volume carmaker can be extremely profitable as well. A good sign for the other carmakers as well.

But ... How much compromises will be made to achive such high profitability? I don't like the move they've done with Seat - starting to rebadge old Audi models as Seat. :eusa_thin Could that happen to Skoda as well (old VWs models rebadged to Skoda)?

And how Porsche will affect Lambo & Audi plans. Or vice versa.
 
I for once find it a good idea to recycle old winning formulas to make excellent, but relatively cheap cars.

I prefer an older, but good car, than a recent but flawed car. Here, in fact, you have a car one or two class higher than what you paid for, yet it's not a used car!

Furthermore, it is considerably re-designed (only the side of the Exeo is the same as the B7, and the interior), what is enough to differentiate it from an A4 for Average Joe.

If I was in the market for a car with that price, the Exeo would stand on top of my list. It really would. Still a superb car.

What I'd like to know is if the saved R&D/testing/tooling costs are enough to cover the much increased material costs (as an Audi A4 has nothing in common with a Seat Toledo in terms of materials...:D).
 
Porsche set to give Volkswagen stake to Qatar - sources

Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:39am EDT

* Porsche ready to surrender VW share options - sources
* Deal would allow marriage of VW and Porsche
* Qatar attention shifts to Volkswagen as Porsche skids


By John O'Donnell, Edward Taylor and Arno Schuetze

FRANKFURT, June 24 (Reuters) - Porsche is advancing towards a deal with Qatar to give the Gulf state a shareholding in Volkswagen, a compromise that will clear the way for the car makers to merge, according to people involved in the talks.
Porsche (PSHG_p.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) racked up 9 billion euros ($12.7 billion) of debt trying to swallow its much bigger rival Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) before the financial crisis turned the tables and threatened to unravel the deal.
The luxury carmaker then entered talks with Qatar about selling a stake in Porsche but -- with Volkswagen now set to dominate the marriage to its debt-hobbled partner -- Qatar's interest has shifted to Volkswagen.
Merger talks are on ice until Qatar decides whether or not to invest.
In a bid to save the deal, Porsche is now prepared to surrender its right to buy about a fifth of Volkswagen's voting shares, said sources with direct knowledge of the matter. Porsche already owns roughly 50 percent of VW stock.
"This is the most likely option," said one source with direct knowledge of the matter. "It looks as if Qatar will buy Volkswagen shares," said a second. A person close to Porsche said that "all options are on the table".
The car-maker's alternatives for repairing its tattered balance sheet are dwindling after strong signals from Berlin that its request for state aid will be rejected. [ID:nLM720161]
A planned capital increase to open its doors to Qatar's sovereign wealth fund, the Qatar Investment Authority, had been expected to raise more than 4 billion euros.
"Selling the Porsche options (in VW) would solve the financing problems (of Porsche)," said a third source. "They (Qatar) would be the third-biggest shareholder in Volkswagen alongside the majority shareholder Porsche.
"This would not be much different than if they were directly invested in Porsche and through Porsche indirectly invested in VW," he said, adding that Qatar would be keen on getting a blocking minority stake.
A deal with Qatar could put the Gulf state on equal footing with Volkswagen's second biggest shareholder, the state of Lower Saxony.
The German state can veto Volkswagen management with its 20 percent blocking vote now and would be opposed to a deal with Qatar that would water down its influence.
Porsche declined to comment and Volkswagen finance chief Hans Dieter Poetsch refused to discuss the matter when approached by Reuters.
Gulf Arab sovereign wealth funds, which lost heavily investing in companies such as Citigroup (C.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), are eyeing a bigger role in the auto industry -- which traces its roots to the German engineer who invented the car, Carl Benz.
 
Porsche Rejects Volkswagen Offer To Buy Stake


FRANKFURT (Dow Jones)--The battle over the future of German sportscar maker Porsche Automobil Holding SE (PAH3.XE) escalated Monday when Porsche said it wouldn't consider the sale of a 49.9% stake to Volkswagen AG (VOW.XE) because it would then immediately have to re-negotiate a EUR10.75 billion credit facility.
Porsche spokesman Albrecht Bamler said Volkswagen had offered directly to supervisory board Chairman Wolfgang Porsche to buy the Porsche stake, but hadn't made the offer to the company's executive board, which would have to consider such a deal.
Volkswagen declined to comment.
The battle over Porsche and its holding in Volkswagen, Europe's biggest car maker by sales, is becoming increasingly acrimonious. Porsche has tried to acquire Volkswagen, building up a stake of 51% plus a complex set of options that would enable it to hike its stake by around 20% if exercised. But the credit crunch and the stock market collapse meant Porsche ran into financing trouble, and it is now in talks about a capital injection from the state-owned Qatar Investment Authority.
The company's net debt tripled to EUR9 billion when it built its VW shareholding, forcing it to abandon its plan to push for a 75% stake and gain access to Volkswagen's cash reserves.
It may now have to give up a stake in itself in return for an investment from QIA, or give QIA some of its VW options, or a combination of both.
All Porsche's voting rights are controlled by the Porsche and Piech families.
Volkswagen's powerful supervisory board chairman and former Chief Executive Ferdinand Piech, who also sits on Porsche's supervisory board, favors an outright sale of Porsche's core sportscar operations to Volkswagen to raise funds for Porsche.
Porsche would then be integrated as a tenth brand into Volkswagen along with nameplates such as Audi, Skoda or Seat.
But Volkswagen spokesman Michael Brendel Monday reiterated that VW hadn't issued an ultimatum to Porsche requiring it to agree to a merger of the two companies by the end of this month, after Porsche Saturday had said it rejected such an ultimatum.
"It appears that ... the relations ... between VW and Porsche have hit an all-time low," said IHS Global Insight analyst Tim Urquhart. "What was already a difficult negotiation is rapidly descending into farce," he added.
Porsche said last month that its owner families unanimously support the plan to get an outside investor on board to safeguard the company's independence.
The maker of models like the Cayenne and 911 said Friday that talks with QIA were nearing completion after the Qatari's completed due-dilligence and the result of that process was positive.
The histories of Porsche and Volkswagen have been entwined ever since Ferdinand Porsche designed Volkswagen's iconic Beetle in the 1930s. Volkswagen's supervisory board chairman Piech is the grandson of Ferdinand Porsche. Porsche's supervisory board chairman Wolfgang Porsche is Piech's cousin.
But the family ties have been tested frequently as Piech has made several controversial moves to maintain hisinfluence and forge a European auto empire offering vehicles ranging from the ultra-luxury Bugatti Veyron sportscar to Scania's heavy trucks.




Porsche Shareholder Says Won’t Be ‘Blackmailed’ by VW Ultimatum


By Brian Parkin June 27 (Bloomberg) -- Porsche SE supervisory board chief and shareholder Wolfgang Porsche said today that he will not be “blackmailed” into fulfilling an ultimatum to agree to a merger plan forged by Volkswagen AG. An ultimatum, reported today in the German press, from Wolfsburg-based Volkswagen and the state of Lower Saxony, are “damaging,” Porsche said in a statement sent to news organizations today. The reports said VW and the state have given Porsche until June 29 to agree to the plan.





VW, Porsche must agree on future soon: Lower Saxony


Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:43am EDT
FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Lower Saxony, Volkswagen's second-largest shareholder, again pushed VW and Porsche to break a deadlock in merger talks on Monday as the two German carmakers squabbled over a deal.
Disagreements among Porsche's owning families and questions about preconditions for an investment by Qatar have held up progress toward creating a combined company, people close to the negotiations said.
"We need to clarify now whether each will go his own way or whether there is a common solution," Christian Wulff, premier of the German state of Lower Saxony, said at in Berlin, adding the state and VW both saw the advantages of a deal.
Wulff said he felt a "certain irritation" after Porsche accused Volkswagen and Lower Saxony, which owns a blocking minority in Europe's biggest carmaker, of holding a gun to its head to agree a deal quickly.
"Apparently not all facts are known to everyone," he said.
Volkswagen and Lower Saxony deny making any ultimatum which Porsche chairman Wolfgang Porsche and his deputy Uwe Hueck said in a joint statement on Saturday was "detrimental to the entire cause."
Porsche said a document containing "deadlines" was sent to Wolfgang Porsche last week.
Porsche dismissed as unworkable any deal which involved a partial sale of its sports car business to VW, noting this would let banks call immediately a 10.75 billion euro ($15.0 billion) syndicated loan they awarded Porsche in March.
Porsche and Volkswagen have been in talks to create an "integrated" automotive group after Porsche's 9 billion euro debt burden forced it to drop plans for a full takeover of VW. Porsche owns a 51 percent stake of VW voting shares.
But progress toward creating a combined company stalled after Porsche chief executive Wendelin Wiedeking sought investment from sovereign wealth fund Qatar Investment Authority (QIA).
Porsche said last week talks with Qatar had "entered the final stretch" but it has so far failed to secure an agreement. QIA chief executive Hussein al Abdullah would not comment.
Qatar wants to learn more detail about combining VW and Porsche before committing to an investment in Porsche Automobil Holding SE, a person familiar with the talks said.
Key to any progress is the resolution of a dispute between the Porsche and Piech clans who own Porsche. Wolfgang Porsche opposes a sale of the Porsche AG sports car business to VW.
His cousin Ferdinand Piech, the chairman of Volkswagen, has in contrast been pushing for months for a sale of Porsche AG that would give the VW group its 10th brand.
VW is reluctant to continue talks with Porsche until the question of Porsche's Qatar investment is resolved, a person close to VW said.
VW finance director Hans Dieter Poetsch said this month that creating a combined VW-Porsche was "a demanding task. Important questions need to be resolved beforehand. We're seeking ways, if there are any, to build an integrated firm."








Porsche, Qatar Investment Talks Are in ‘Final Stage’

By Andreas Cremer
June 26 (Bloomberg) -- Porsche SE said talks with Qatar over a potential investment in the sports-car maker have entered a “final stage” as chances diminish that the German government will extend a loan.
The due diligence process conducted with the Persian Gulf state has led to a “positive” conclusion, Frank Gaube, a spokesman for Porsche, said in a telephone interview today. He declined to predict when an agreement may be reached. Daimler AG, the second-largest maker of luxury cars, denied a German magazine report that it’s seeking a stake in Porsche.
The maker of the 911 sports car may sell a stake for as much as 2.5 billion euros ($3.5 billion) to Qatar to help reduce 9 billion euros in net debt, people familiar with the plan said June 15. Stuttgart, Germany-based Porsche has applied for a 1.75 billion-euro loan from state-owned development bank KfW Group.
The Economy Ministry called off a meeting that had been scheduled for today in Berlin to discuss the application because German officials no longer see the need for a review after KfW rejected the loan request last week, people familiar with the situation said yesterday.
Porsche has been accumulating stock in Volkswagen AG since 2005 to protect ties to the Wolfsburg, Germany-based automaker, which is its largest supplier. Porsche, which owns at least 50.8 percent of VW, also holds some call options that could be converted into about 20 percent of VW shares.
The automakers said in May they were in talks about creating an integrated manufacturer of 10 vehicle brands that would also include VW’s Audi luxury unit as well as the Skoda and Seat brands.
Daimler’s Plan
Daimler has no plans to acquire a stake in Porsche, Thomas Froehlich, a spokesman for Daimler, said today, confirming comments Chief Executive Officer Dieter Zetsche made in an interview with Welt am Sonntag newspaper.
“I don’t think it’s wise to consider replacing this integration” of Porsche and Volkswagen “by another one,” Zetsche was quoted as saying in an e-mailed summary of an article to be published by the Sunday newspaper.
The Manager Magazin reported last week that Daimler and Porsche had been in talks at the end of last month to discuss possible options, including Daimler buying shares in Porsche or receiving the VW options.
A spokesman for the Qatar Investment Authority declined to comment on talks with Porsche.











Geez, will this drama ever end? :t-banghea
 
Porsche loan request rejected by Germany's state bank

Porsche is profitable and it owns a big chunk of the far larger Volkswagen, yet cash seems to be in short supply. Automotive News is reporting that the world-renowned luxury sports car maker's 1.75 billion euro ($2.45 billion USD) loan request from German state bank KFW has been rejected, leaving Porsche to search elsewhere for funding. Porsche secured 10.75 billion euros ($15.1B) in financing from banks in March to feed its 9 billion euro debt ($12.6B) mountain, but it's looking for alternative means for financing its cash crunch.

Porsche has already looked outside of Europe for funding to handle its mounting debt, as it worked with the Arab emirate of Qatar to secure a sizable stake in the company. VW, smelling blood in the water, reportedly gave Porsche an ultimatum, offering up 3-4 billion euro ($4.2-$5.6B) for 49% of the sports car maker in exchange for not forcing the repayment of a 700 million euro loan ($983M) in September. Porsche responded by saying that ultimatums don't belong in the 21st century. Unfortunately, bankruptcies are all too common in the new economy, so the proud German company may have to dig a bit deeper to keep themselves from falling into the financial abyss.


Source: Autoblog
 
Qatar Only Wants Porsche’s Volkswagen Options, FTD Reports
javascript:togShareLinks('shr_v');



By Angela Cullen
June 30 (Bloomberg) -- Qatar Investment Authority has only offered to buy options held by Porsche SE on Volkswagen AG shares, Financial Times Deutschland reported, without saying how it obtained the information.
Porsche Chief Executive Officer Wendelin Wiedeking had hoped Qatar would also purchase a stake in Porsche’s holding company. Qatar wants a “politically correct” investment that keeps it neutral amid a power struggle involving the Porsche and Piech families and VW, the newspaper said.
 
Yes, it looks like QIA wants a share in a healthy part (VAG), not wanting to deal with the patient (PAH SE).

In the end QIA can end with 25% stake in VAG ... PAG (Porsche operative automotive business) included. While PAH will be there ... still dealing with its credit problems.

I won't be surpirised if in the next years QIA becomes the biggest shareholder in VAG (acquiring even more shares from PAH SE) ... Nice catch: for the Arabs. Aston Martin, Porsche, Volkswagen, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, Skoda, Seat ... Mercedes-Benz, Maybach, smart ... Who's next? BMW Group with BMW, MINI & Rolls-Royce ???
 
Yes, but VAG is supposed to be healthy enough! The QIA will buy the PAH options, right?

But if the merge of VAG and PAG happens then it's problem solved for PAH, right?

Geez, it's very confusing :D
 
Yes, but VAG is supposed to be healthy enough! The QIA will buy the PAH options, right?

But if the merge of VAG and PAG happens then it's problem solved for PAH, right?


I'm not sure. I don't know how much money will PAH get from QIA for 25% of VAG options. I don't think it will be enough to repay the debt.

Mind PAH is just a financial holding: having stakes in PAG & VAG. Meaning the only revenues PAH can get are either from:

a) PAG & VAG dividends
b) loans
c) sale of investments (PAG & VAG shares)
d) profits from other financial investments (eg. in hedge funds etc)

V
V
V


a) dividends are not enough to repay the debts
b) new loans for repaying old ones are not available in this situation right now
c) the only possibility to repay the debts
d) not a good situation right now nor having extra many for such operations


So ... I don't think other VAG shareholders (State of Lower Saxony, QIA etc) will allow PAH to financially exhaust Volkswagen AG (eg. demanding higher dividends instead of putting profit in cash reserves).

Regarding merger: VAG is in a much stronger position right now (and thus also the Piech) so it offers Porsche SE a merger - by acquiring Porsche automotive operations (PAG) by VAG ... So the Porsche will become one of the branches under VAG (like Bentley, Audi, Skoda etc). So the Porsche brand will get all the VAG R&D, logistics & other economy of scales benefits. That will secure Porsche brand a bright future - otherwise who know what can happen.

But VAG is ready to "merge" with Porsche only under few conditions: Porsche SE can not finacially exhaust VAG (by draining its cash reserves) but find other options to repay the debts (= selling VAG shars to other investors outside the loop).

Mind VAG is completely run by Piech people right now.
 
Porsche-Piech families to meet Sunday over VW, Qatar offers

Automotive News
July 12, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

MUNICH -- Porsche's controlling families were meeting on Sunday to decide the future of the heavily indebted holding company that owns the sports car maker, German newspapers reported.

Members of the Porsche and Piech families were gathering in Salzburg, Austria, to settle their differences over how to deal with 9 billion euros of debts run up in a failed attempt to take over Volkswagen.

Two options are on the table to reduce Porsche's debt burden -- a merger with VW or selling a stake in Porsche to the Gulf state of Qatar.

Volkswagen Chairman Ferdinand Piech, a part owner of Porsche who holds a blocking minority together with his brother, aims to force a merger with cash-rich VW. press reports say.

His cousin Wolfgang Porsche favors selling Qatar a stake in Porsche Automobil Holding, the company that controls the Porsche car business and the families' 51 percent stake in VW, plus a further 25 percent in VW share options.

Germany's Der Spiegel reported that Volkswagen has sweetened its bid to purchase almost half of Porsche and is prepared to offer considerably more than 4 billion euros ($5.58 billion).


Full article: Porsche-Piech families to meet Sunday over VW, Qatar offers - Automotive News
 
Face-saving VW/Porsche deal nears - sources

Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:11pm EDT

* Porsche's owners near consensus on combined group - sources
* Qatar to get VW options from Porsche - sources
* VW to hold less than 50 pct in Porsche AG - sources
* Porsche shares down 1.1 pct, VW falls 2 pct (Adds details, background)

By Jan Schwartz and Philipp Halstrick

HAMBURG/FRANKFURT, July 17 (Reuters) - A face-saving compromise is set to resolve the months-long power struggle between Volkswagen and Porsche SE over who will control the carmaking powerhouse they seek to forge.
Sources close to the transaction said the families that own Porsche were near agreement on a deal that would let Volkswagen absorb debt-laden Porsche's healthy sports car business, Porsche AG, as VW Chairman Ferdinand Piech has been proposing.
VW would initially get just under half of Porsche AG while holding company Porsche SE would remain entirely controlled by the Porsche and Piech families under the plan that has been approved in principle by the families, the sources added.
The deal, which needs approval at board meetings on Thursday, combines elements of rival plans from the two warring camps that formed when Porsche's debt woes forced it to drop efforts to seize control of VW in May and try a merger instead.
"We are working on a middle way," one financial source familiar with the negotiations said, adding that no final decision had been reached and that the future of Porsche Chief Executive Wendelin Wiedeking remained open.
"A lot of people would be happy with this," another source said, noting the compromise could ease concerns among some Porsche owners that VW was getting the best of the deal.
Qatar, which has been in talks with Porsche, would take over derivative contracts owned by Porsche that would give the Gulf state a 20 percent stake in Volkswagen, Europe's biggest carmaker, the sources said.
That would make it a major shareholder alongside the Porsche families and VW's home state of Lower Saxony in the integrated automotive group to be spawned by the deal.

WIEDEKING'S ROLE IN SPOTLIGHT
"The Porsche and Piech families would be the major shareholders in the new company, the state of Lower Saxony holds 20 percent and Qatar will have a stake of 15-20 percent in Volkswagen AG by acquiring options on VW shares," Lower Saxony state premier Christian Wulff told WirtschaftsWoche magazine.
A deal along these lines would undercut Wiedeking, who on Thursday evening had to deny speculation that he was about to leave the group.
"I am a happy CEO and feel fit as a fiddle in this role," he said at centenary celebrations for VW's premium unit Audi.
Porsche's top labour leader denied a magazine report that Wiedeking's departure as head of the sports car business was imminent, a report Porsche itself dismissed as "absolute nonsense".
Der Spiegel said Porsche's owners had already agreed to elevate production chief Michael Macht to head Porsche AG.
Porsche shares closed down 1.1 percent and Volkswagen stock slipped 2 percent, lagging a 1.2 percent gain in the DJ Stoxx European car sector index .
Piech, a co-owner of Porsche, has been pushing to buy Porsche AG as a way to add a 10th brand to his sprawling automotive empire that ranges from tiny VW models to high-end Bugattis and Lamborghinis to heavy trucks.
Piech's cousin Wolfgang Porsche -- the chairman of Porsche SE -- and Wiedeking had fought such a sale. They had been hoping to bring in Qatar as an investor to help reduce its debt pile and put it on even footing in talks with cash-rich Volkswagen.
The boards of both companies will meet separately in Porsche's home town of Stuttgart on July 23 to discuss a deal.
Porsche had to abandon plans to take full control of its much larger peer as its debt mounted -- sources told Reuters on Wednesday its net debt has surpassed 10 billion euros ($14.11 billion) -- just as global car markets collapsed.
That left Porsche with a 51 percent stake in VW, which agreed to enter talks on creating an integrated car group. (Additional reporting by Hendrik Sackmann in Stuttgart and Alexander Huebner in Frankfurt; Writing by Michael Shields; Editing by Rupert Winchester)
 
Hm, that means ....

In the end Porsche SE (50% of the company in the hands of Porsche/ Piech families; 100% of voting rights in Porsche / Piech hands) will have:

1.) 51% in Porsche AG (49% will be acquired by Volkswagen AG)
2.) 51% in Volkswagen AG

Volkswagen AG (VAG) will acquire 49% of Porsche AG, while VAG will be owned by Porsche SE (51%), German state of Lower Saxony (20%), Qatar via QIA (15-20%), other investors (9-14%).
 
A solution was bound to work out. There was no reasons why Porsche would have buckled. They are in debt for the right reason -- VAG shares. Either was it's a very interesting and insightful story to follow.
 

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