Porsche/VW Saga


Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

Its barely better than the R8, the R8 was better than the mk1. Remember though that the R8 has greater transmission losses than the 997 S therefore they have about the similiar power. The R8 is more special though and porsche have already said in not too many words that they dont like the R8 or want audi to make an R4.

Transmission loss?? It's not Porsche fault that Audi has a poor manual gearbox. Further more the 997s is 20% cheaper than the R8.
 
Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

And Porsche and VW chronicles begins...:D
 
Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

Transmission loss?? It's not Porsche fault that Audi has a poor manual gearbox. Further more the 997s is 20% cheaper than the R8.

That is true, what I meant though is the 4wd transmission losses over the rwd 911.

Even if the 911 is better id still rather have the R8 though, its less common and oh so sexy.:icondrool
 
Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

Porsche is a leech for VAG! They are not willing to give, just want to take.

I'm sure Porsche wants Audi under its direct control. Since Porsche + Audi would be a perfect item! While VAG is there just to help PAG lowering the purchasing., R&D and manufacturing costs.
 
Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

If Porsche is going to be bad news for Audi it will be "good night" for Lamborghini...

I think Lamborghini is too high to bother Porsche and a good tool against Ferrari. I think it is Audi that will take the biggest hit. I doubt we will see a successor to the R8 or an R4 if Porsche has its way.
 
Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

Porsche is a leech for VAG! They are not willing to give, just want to take.

That's right. They want to be the silver back gorilla enjoying goodies from the cookie jar like Audi engines and VW Sat/Nav screen. Do they want to share any of their technology and innovation with Audi, VW or Lambo? Nope.
 
Re: Porsche wants Audi engines, VW says no.

Never ending....so are the days of our lives.....as the world turns....que the music.


M
 
Porsche Aims to Raise Holding in Volkswagen to 75%

By Andreas Hippin


Oct. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Porsche SE, maker of the 911 sports car, plans to raise its holding in Volkswagen AG to 75 percent next year and outlined steps for reaching that goal in a way meant to reduce the stock's volatility in the past two months.
Porsche now owns 42.6 percent of Volkswagen's common stock, has cash-settled options for another 31.5 percent and is sticking to plans to obtain a stake exceeding 50 percent by December, the Stuttgart, Germany-based carmaker said today in a statement. The disclosure is aimed at giving ``short-sellers the opportunity to close their positions unhurriedly and without bigger risk.''
Porsche has been seeking control of Europe's biggest carmaker since March to boost margins as it faces fiercer international competition. European carmakers are under pressure as the global financial crisis and economic slowdown hurt demand for new vehicles.
``Porsche wants to decide the time and the terms under which it consolidates Volkswagen,'' said Christoph Berger, 31, a Frankfurt-based fund manager at Cominvest Asset Management. ``Today's statement explains to a certain extent the Volkswagen share-price development over the past few weeks. Hedging against options sold to Porsche has probably driven the share price more than fundamental factors.''
About 15 percent of Volkswagen's common shares as of last month were on loan, mostly for short sales, according to London- based research firm Data Explorers.
Automakers Slump
Volkswagen shares fell 23 percent, the most in almost two decades, on Oct. 20 as short sellers bet the price will decline once Porsche gains control. A month earlier, the stock rose the most in at least 19 years as market turmoil prompted investors to close short positions.
Automakers are feeling the full force of the global economic slump, with PSA Peugeot Citroen reporting third-quarter revenue down 5.2 percent last week and Renault SA posting a 2.2 percent decline. Volvo AB, the world's second-largest maker of heavy trucks, cut its industry growth outlook and Toyota Motor Corp. said sales dropped for the first time in seven years.
Volkswagen, which reports earnings Oct. 30, may have increased third-quarter net income 1.5 percent to 961 million euros ($1.2 billion), based on estimates from five analysts in a Bloomberg survey. Sales probably rose 4.9 percent to 27.4 billion euros. The company was the only one of Europe's top 10 carmakers to report an increase in sales in the region in September.
Stock Volatility
Short-sellers borrow stock on expectations they can repurchase the shares later at a lower price. The proportion of shares in Wolfsburg, Germany-based Volkswagen that were on loan was the highest of any company on Germany's 30-member benchmark DAX Index, according to the Data Explorers figures.
Hedge-fund traders have wagered that the difference between Volkswagen's common shares, which carry voting rights, and its preferred stock, which doesn't, will narrow in favor of the latter. Of 39 analysts covering Volkswagen, 32 have ``sell'' recommendations on the stock. Only one advises investors to buy the shares.
Common stock in Volkswagen, Europe's largest carmaker, is up 35 percent this year, valuing the company at 66.6 billion euros ($84.1 billion). The stock, which cost 210.85 euros as of Oct. 24, is the only gainer on either the DAX or the nine-member Bloomberg Europe Autos Index. Its performance contrasts with the preferred stock, which has dropped 56 percent to 44.24 euros this year, according to Bloomberg data.
Options
When exercising the options, the underlying Volkswagen shares will be bought at the market price, Porsche said today. Porsche will receive the difference between the market price and the option strike price, the company said, without specifying either figure.
``If Porsche raises its stake beyond 75 percent, preferred shares will probably replace common shares in the DAX'' according to German market rules, Cominvest's Berger said.
Volkswagen spokesman Peik von Bestenbostel said that Porsche's announcement was expected after the company's recent comments.
The carmakers will meanwhile work out a so-called control agreement, which outlines decision-making powers that Porsche will hold once it reaches the target holding, the sports-car maker said.
Porsche has been buying shares in Volkswagen since 2005 to protect ties to its biggest supplier and has said since March that it would seek a majority stake. The purchase is opposed by Volkswagen worker groups seeking more representation on the Porsche supervisory board and by some German politicians.
`Catastrophe'
``It would be a catastrophe for Volkswagen's more than 360,000 employees if managers who spurn workers' rights gained control over the company,'' Bernd Osterloh, the works council head at Volkswagen, said today in an e-mailed statement. ``We are strictly against a control agreement. Even though Porsche has always denied it, we knew they were going for it.''
The sports-car maker said on Oct. 24 the Porsche and Piech families that control it, as well as Uwe Hueck, head of the company's works council, agree on all corporate plans, including terms of the Volkswagen takeover and labor representation.
Volkswagen Supervisory Board Chairman Ferdinand Piech, who is also a Porsche board member, ``unconditionally supported'' Porsche's company policies and press reports to the contrary ``had led to irritation'' among employees, the sports-car maker said in the Oct. 24 statement.
That comment was the company's second since a report in Der Spiegel magazine in early September said that Piech had wanted to remove Porsche Chief Executive Officer Wendelin Wiedeking amid a dispute over Volkswagen takeover terms.
The German state of Lower Saxony is the second-largest investor in Volkswagen with a stake of more than 20 percent. The Volkswagen supervisory board voted Sept. 12 to retain a company- charter provision giving any shareholder with 20 percent a blocking vote on major decisions, protecting the state's say over the company.



Source: Bloomberg
 
Porsche will not pay “ridiculous” prices for Volkswagen shares amid recessionary conditions, it said on Wednesday, backing away from its previous target to take majority control of Europe’s biggest carmaker by year-end.

Wendelin Wiedeking, chief executive, said Porsche’s goal remained to raise its voting stake to above 50 per cent as soon as possible but added: “We are under no time pressure.”


Porsche’s unexpected disclosure last month that it had lifted its stake in VW using derivatives caused VW’s share price to quadruple, reaching a high of just under €1,000.

Holger Haerter, Porsche’s finance chief, told reporters on Wednesday that he considered a price of €200 a “reasonable” level for VW shares. He said Porsche was not willing to acquire the shares for “economically ridiculous” prices.

Mr Wiedeking said it was increasingly unrealistic to achieve the goal to buy more shares within 2008 in light of the economic environment, but reaffirmed his intention to take Porsche’s stake to 75 per cent in 2009.

To take full control over VW, however, Porsche will also need Berlin to change German law and VW statutes which give VW’s home state of Lower Saxony the right to veto these plans with its 20 per cent stake.

Yesterday Porsche also announced that they cannot escape the current economic crisis in the automobile industry. Due to the decline in demand worldwide, production at the parent plant in Zuffenhausen was stopped for the first time last Friday, November 21, 2008. Furthermore, seven additional days off have been scheduled up to the end of January 2009.

Porsche has already warned that its revenue in the four months to the end of November would likely be less than €2bn, more than 15 per cent below the level of the same period last year.

All this is making the whole takeover harder for Porsche.


PS
I hope this stalls for so long that lamborghini starts devoloping the estoque..
after that porsche are welcome to take over..
I dont care:D
 
VW and Porsche reach union agreement

00a3f2859c3465503294c94512373dfc.webp


The tension that has cast a backlight on the Porsche-VW acquisition found a particular intensity in the fight for seats on the joint works council. The board that represents the labor interests at the Porsche Automobil conglomerate will now have half its seats reserved for VW representatives, and half for those from Porsche's laborers.

The even split might appear equitable on its face, but it's somewhat out of balance with the actual proportion of workers: Porsche employs 12,000 workers while VW employs 360,000. To remedy the imbalance, VW's votes will carry more weight, effectively enlarging the subsidiary's presence on the board.

The head of VW's works council, Bernd Osterloh, has been appointed chairman of the joint works council, reports Automotive News Europe, as an additional nod toward VW's size and power, while Porsche's works council head, Uwe Huck, will be the deputy chairman.

The issue of worker representation had been the major remaining point of contention between the two companies, but with the latest agreement appears to have come to a resolution.


Source: VW and Porsche reach union agreement - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots

:t-cheers:
 
Official: Porsche Increase Volkswagen Stake to Over 50%

Porsche now owns 50.76 percent of VW shares but still does not control the company

Porsche has achieved its goal of owning a majority share of Volkswagen AG.
On Monday, Porsche Automobil Holding SE, based in Stuttgart, Germany, announced that it had acquired further shares in VW and that it now holds 50.76 percent of ordinary voting shares in the German automaker.
Wolfsburg-based Volkswagen had been fighting off a hostile bid by Porsche to control VW for years. But in recent months an agreement was reached between the two companies that has allowed Porsche to gain a larger share of VW stock.
But Porsche still does not have a controlling interest in VW. According to German law, control of a company requires a 75 percent share of the vote at a stockholder meeting. And VW's charter rules have traditionally required an 80% share to exercise control of the company, which has also given the government of Lower-Saxony, which owns a minority stake in VW, veto power over how the company is run. Porsche recently lost a legal bid challenging those rules.
The government of Lower-Saxony owns 20.1 percent of Volkswagen AG.

Source: Porsche Automobil Holding SE
 
Porsche secures ten billion euros to buy VW shares

Press Release

Porsche secures ten billion credit line
Stuttgart. Porsche Automobil Holding SE, Stuttgart, finalized negotiations to secure a new credit facility of Euro ten billion to redeem a credit of the same size. The credit framework contract allows Porsche to extend the volume to Euro 12.5 billion in the forthcoming weeks. In the wake of the extremely difficult global economic environment and the turbulences in the bond market banks needed additional assessment, thus resulting in a need for extra time. In addition to that, the new consortium includes banks that so far not have been counterparts of Porsche with respect to credit lines.
The credit line will be guaranteed by a consortium of 15 banks including Barclays Capital, Commerzbank, LBBW, Deutsche Bank, UBS, Credit Suisse, Santander, BayernLB, BNP Paribas, Calyon, UniCredit/HVB, Helaba, Intesa, WestLB und DZ-Bank. Agreed at market conditions are two tranches of twelve month with the right of extending a tranche of Euro 6.7 billion for an additional year. Porsche intends to pay down the smaller tranche fast and aims for credit ratings the results of which should be available in may 2009.
 
Volkswagen mulls Porsche counter bid​

FRANKFURT (AFP) — Volkswagen is mulling a takeover of the automotive business of luxury sports car maker Porsche, which would add a new twist in the German industrial saga, press reports said on Thursday.

Directors of VW, the biggest European car maker, are considering making a bid for Porsche AG which would relieve the highly-indebted parent company Porsche SE, the Financial Times Deutschland (FTD) and Financial Times said.

Porsche made an audacious takeover bid for VW, which has sales 15 times larger than its smaller German peer, three and a half years ago.

"The tail would finally stop wagging the dog," said a person familiar with VW thinking, the FT reported.

Porsche SE currently has nine billion euros (11.7 billion dollars) in debt.

A spokesman for the company said he was unaware of any VW takeover plans.

"This plan does not exist as far as I know," the spokesman told AFP.

Porsche boss Wendelin Wiedeking is looking for ways to finance the original plan to buy VW and a capital increase is not ruled out, the FTD said, but the spokesman said there had been no decision yet.

The Porsche parent group owns a little more than 50 percent of Wolfsburg-based VW and wants to raise its stake to 75 percent.

A VW spokesman declined to comment on the report.

Porsche's difficulty in financing the purchase of the much bigger VW has raised market speculation in recent weeks.

The magazine Manager said Stuttgart-based Porsche was in talks with possible investors in the Middle East, while VW shareholders were to meet on Thursday in a general assembly.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gxb5ikoEdjUQet4capI5zwqa6OmQ
 
And BANG! The correction comes in no time. :D:


Porsche denies to sell sports car business to VW​

Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:04pm BST

* Porsche calls media reports "nonsense"

* Porsche debt pile fuels speculation of revamp

* Porsche shares advance

FRANKFURT, April 23 (Reuters) - Porsche SE (PSHG_p.DE) denied on Thursday reports that its main shareholders planned to sell the group's sports car business to its Volkswagen (VOWG.DE) unit as a way to relieve Porsche's debt burden.

"This is nonsense," said spokesman Anton Hunger. "If this were the case then we would have to publish a statement because other shareholders would be affected." He added that no such statement was being worked on.

The Bloomberg news agency, citing two people familiar with the matter, reported that the Porsche and Piech families planned to sell the sports car business and their eastern European dealer network to VW, Europe's biggest carmaker.

Porsche's non-voting preferred shares reversed losses on the news and were up 6.6 percent at 52.25 euros by 1141 GMT, off a session high at 53 euros.


Full article: UPDATE 1-Porsche denies to sell sports car business to VW | Motoring | Reuters
 
ANd apparently piech would have agreed with F. Porsche to replace Wiedeking with Winterkorn, thus why the porsche ceo was absent from the last show where they showed the Panamera.
 
If there's any truth in that story then it means in the end VAG will partially finance its own takeover by Porsche SE (by buying Porsche AG from Porsche SE). :eusa_thin

Interesting. Twistted.

Porsche has been known lately for some creative financial engineering, so not so surprising at all.

:D
 
I don't think it would be very wise for them to buy Porsche and use something close to 9 billion euros out of the 10,7 billion euros cash reserves VW currently has.
 
I don't think it would be very wise for them to buy Porsche and use something close to 9 billion euros out of the 10,7 billion euros cash reserves VW currently has.


I don't think VAG's cash reserves will be used ... They will get a loan to perform this takeover.

I suspect it's all about loan accessibility issue for PAH. Porsche SE (PAH) already has several billions of Euros borrowed, and the holding can't get any more cash from banks. The problem is this holding has no own cash flow - since all the cash flow is created by Porsche AG (and VAG), not the holding.

Yes, they could order PAG to get loans, and then buy VAG and later sell it to PAH. Of course Porsche family is not stupid, and they will not compromise Porsche AG by exposing it to such unattractive loans - they will just order VAG to do it instead: VAG getting expensive loans, then officially buys PAG from PAH, so the PAH gets additional money to buy more of VAG.

Sounds complicated? :D

And if anything really goes completely wrong (eg. complete lack of cash to pay off loans) VAG can sell off one of its brand from the rich portfolio. Eg. Bugatti or Lamborghini (Eg. to some rich Arab investor), and then paying off the loan. Problem solved. Neither PAH nor PAG have enough assets to do that, while VAG is rich in non-cash assets.
 
I don't think VAG's cash reserves will be used ... They will get a loan to perform this takeover.

I suspect it's all about loan accessibility issue for PAH. Porsche SE (PAH) already has several billions of Euros borrowed, and the holding can't get any more cash from banks. The problem is this holding has no own cash flow - since all the cash flow is created by Porsche AG (and VAG), not the holding.

Yes, they could order PAG to get loans, and then buy VAG and later sell it to PAH. Of course Porsche family is not stupid, and they will not compromise Porsche AG by exposing it to such unattractive loans - they will just order VAG to do it instead: VAG getting expensive loans, then officially buys PAG from PAH, so the PAH gets additional money to buy more of VAG.

Sounds complicated? :D

And if anything really goes completely wrong (eg. complete lack of cash to pay off loans) VAG can sell off one of its brand from the rich portfolio. Eg. Bugatti or Lamborghini (Eg. to some rich Arab investor), and then paying off the loan. Problem solved. Neither PAH nor PAG have enough assets to do that, while VAG is rich in non-cash assets.

Sure there is the possibility Volkswagen won't use its cash reserves. I was simply referring to some analyst estimates (e.g. Arndt Ellinghorst / Credit Suisse) that see the use of cash as the most logical choice for VW.

If they (Porsche SE) let Volkswagen AG buy Porsche AG it could lead to Porsche getting integrated into VW as its 10th brand and Wiedeking could lose the power struggle to Winterkorn & Piech.
 

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