Hot! Porsche drops diesel engines from its entire range

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Even the mighty v8 panamera diesel which I drove felt lacking.

This is where the problem lays. VAG's big diesels are not good. And historically this comes from the shitty FWD longitudinal engine platform that AUDI still uses. The fact that the engine lays in front of the front axle prevents them from using an engine longer than an in line 5 cylinder. And because AUDI is developing the big diesels for VAG, they have to use V engines. Or with other words- they can not use the only suitable for big diesel type of engine: the inline 6. The problem with the V is that you have two banks. To use only one turbo you have to collect all the exhaust pipes but if the exhaust manifolds are on the outer side of the engine, this makes them too long, which causes turbo lag. and the engine can never have the response of the in line 6. One of the solutions to this is to use two turbos, one per cylinder bank of the same type. But this makes it more expensive, also another problem is the uneven firing per cylinder bank which makes the build up of pressure much slower and also massively shortens the life of the turbo bearing, because of the uneven impulses. Another solution to the same problem is to put the turbo in the hot V (between the banks), but the diesel engine has much worse thermal strain than the petrol one and this solution would require additional reinforcement that would again increase the cost. Then comes the variant of the diesel engines with sequential turbos. For the inline 6 it is as easy as a walk in the park, but because of the longer exhaust pipes this would not be very responsive in the VAG's engine. Of course solution to this problem is the replacement of the small turbo with and electrical one, that is undependable on the length of the exhaust pipes, but this again adds a huge amount of cost. So to compete against BMW's simple and light in line 6 with four turbos, they have to use much more expensive and heavier V8, that ruins the car's handling.

 

[KiwiRob]

What this is going to do is kill the sales of the Maccan, Cayenne and Panamera in Europe, Australia and various other countries where diesel is popular. It won't be a problem in the US and China where diesel isn't popular, but it will probably push the prices up since they won't be making as many vehicles. A big diesel is still the best long haul motorway cruiser, it's still the best when hauling a trailer, it's still got significanlty better fuel consumption than any petrol or petrol hybrid and where I live diesel is still cheaper at the pump.

 

[KiwiRob]

Could Bentley be next to do the same?

I read recently the diesel makes up about 60% of Bentayga sales, they'd kill it dead if they dropped it.

 

[MikeJ]

Interesting article.
Porsche’s Hybrid Panamera Is a Hit

In scandinavia it’s nearly 70% hybrids and Finland alone I think I read 90%

So it’s really a decent proposal tbh.

In Finland the hybrid is the cheapest Panamera by a margin of €15K, while the Turbo S Hybrid is €45K cheaper than the regular Turbo. All thanks to car taxation being based on official CO2 figures.

 

[LaArtist]

What this is going to do is kill the sales of the Maccan, Cayenne and Panamera in Europe, Australia and various other countries where diesel is popular. It won't be a problem in the US and China where diesel isn't popular, but it will probably push the prices up since they won't be making as many vehicles. A big diesel is still the best long haul motorway cruiser, it's still the best when hauling a trailer, it's still got significanlty better fuel consumption than any petrol or petrol hybrid and where I live diesel is still cheaper at the pump.

I’m not really sure it will make such an impact I think the hybrids will pick up the slack.. let’s see

 

[hovabongZA]

In Finland the hybrid is the cheapest Panamera by a margin of €15K, while the Turbo S Hybrid is €45K cheaper than the regular Turbo. All thanks to car taxation being based on official CO2 figures.

For real? That’s insane ...why would you buy a Turbo then if the Turbo S Hybrid is that much cheaper...really crazy !

 

[LaArtist]

In Finland the hybrid is the cheapest Panamera by a margin of €15K, while the Turbo S Hybrid is €45K cheaper than the regular Turbo. All thanks to car taxation being based on official CO2 figures.

This is very interesting. How much do you get back on the tax when you buy a 4e hybrid ?

I’m Sweden there is a new system coming in force on July 1st.

If you buy a full electric car you get 6000euro from the gov.
And then deduct 80ish euro for each gram of c02 down to 60g.
At 60 you get 1000 euro.
At 61g and above you get jack shit.

Panamera 4 e hybrid for instance is at 54g per km means you will get roughly 1400 euro from gov.

Seems like the Finnish deal is much sweeter.

 

[Merc1]

Good news. Porsche should have never been offering VAG's junk diesels in the first place.

M

 

[sako97]

In Finland the hybrid is the cheapest Panamera by a margin of €15K, while the Turbo S Hybrid is €45K cheaper than the regular Turbo. All thanks to car taxation being based on official CO2 figures.

For real? That’s insane ...why would you buy a Turbo then if the Turbo S Hybrid is that much cheaper...really crazy !

Wow, if I lived in Finland I'd put my automotive enthusiast pride aside and go hybrid everything.

 

[Srbb]

Starting from when? this will not impact selling's and profits?

 

[MikeJ]

This is very interesting. How much do you get back on the tax when you buy a 4e hybrid ?

I’m Sweden there is a new system coming in force on July 1st.

If you buy a full electric car you get 6000euro from the gov.
And then deduct 80ish euro for each gram of c02 down to 60g.
At 60 you get 1000 euro.
At 61g and above you get jack shit.

Panamera 4 e hybrid for instance is at 54g per km means you will get roughly 1400 euro from gov.

Seems like the Finnish deal is much sweeter.

In Finland the new car tax is directly based on the amount of CO2 emissions. The tax currently starts at 3.3 % (of the retail price), which is applied to cars with emissions ranging from 0 to 2 g of CO2/km. The higher the emissions, the higher the tax, until the maximum tax of 50 % is reached at 360 g/km.

All this means that the tax is €7,542 on a Panamera 4 E-Hybrid and €43,061 on a regular Panamera 4, making the hybrid the obvious choice. It's the same story for many other expensive cars with a hybrid option. For cars that are aimed at mere mortals the difference is not as pronounced, but a Toyota Auris Hybrid is still pretty much the same price as the 1.2T.

 

[Centurion]

Starting from when? this will not impact selling's and profits?

Starting now. Orders for a diesel cannot be placed. Customers who would have bought one will buy a petrol or hybrid now. Diesels only accounted for 15% of Porsche's sale.

Their customers aren't commercial businesses or taxi drivers, so the discontinuation of diesel is a very small loss.

 

[LaArtist]

Starting now. Orders for a diesel cannot be placed. Customers who would have bought one will buy a petrol or hybrid now. Diesels only accounted for 15% of Porsche's sale.

Their customers aren't commercial businesses or taxi drivers, so the discontinuation of diesel is a very small loss.

Tbh they took away the panamera diesel from the config back in oct nov.
So this is actually old news.

 

[savage-It]

I speak just for Italy and the other European Country where I live permanently now...they will not sell many Macan or Cayenne here if not diesel.. They will loose in some Countries almost nothing and in others well above the 50% of sellings.Of course the average at the end will be probably 15% as they state.
I am for example in the market for a SUV now and was waiting for the new Cayenne 300 hp diesel!! The dealers told me that the car was planned to enter in the market in late summer and recently was postponed without any motivation. This happened up to my last visit last week. Now they are waiting for the official confirmation of this cancellation...and they are really worried..And I will probably buy the new Touareg or X5 we will see..But diesel.Because my trips every month are close to 900+900 km by highway and the hybrid system for this purpose is just a joke..But I understand that in other countries and for different scopes, the hybrid will be a winner.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Overall Porsche global sales volume diesel: 14.3% = 34.300 vehicles (in 2016 terms). This is a good move from Porsche.

 

[Monster]

What this is going to do is kill the sales of the Maccan, Cayenne and Panamera in Europe, Australia and various other countries where diesel is popular.

Well not in Australia, people buy the diesel version because it is cheaper than petrol, not because diesel is popular.

 

[savage-It]

Overall Porsche global sales volume diesel: 14.3% = 34.300 vehicles (in 2016 terms). This is a good move from Porsche.

I agree. But I was speaking for the two markets I know at best. And in these markets it will be - 50/60% for sure or even more. The Touareg that will be introduced soon with 286 hp will be a winner in these markets and probably they calculated this in some ways..to compensate the lost

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Sadly, based on the tests, that 286 hp V6 from VAG doesn't seem strong. The previous 272hp engine had almost identical performance and the BMW diesel with 265hp is performing better.

 

[savage-It]

Sadly, based on the tests, that 286 hp V6 from VAG doesn't seem strong. The previous 272hp engine had almost identical performance and the BMW diesel with 265hp is performing better.

do you know more about this engine? I am interested and it seems you have some insiders
I made 310K km with the 250 hp version and I never had problems. Of course emissions apart

 

[tristatez28lt1]

do you know more about this engine? I am interested and it seems you have some insiders
I made 310K km with the 250 hp version and I never had problems. Of course emissions apart

I don't want to detract from the thread but sadly I have no inside info. It just seems to be, based on the tests, that the new 286 hp engine is not performing on par with the competitors. Nowadays, there are thousands of variables to consider - however, if I had the choice, I would go with BMW diesel engines. Specifically the N57 and newer.