Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari

[Emu]

Post that on mclife and see what happens with all the macboys; I dare you.

And now...

After all the bashing and leaked DATA regarding depleting batteries of the 918 and mainly after reading that Laguna Seca is slow for the P1, bla bla... I decided to look back at a track, which even Mycroft/LMFAO/Emo, etc. preferred for the P1 - Big Willow.

Same driver, same magazine, probably same car.
BW is 1.23m track, LS is 1.29m track and fast enough for the P1 (Emo The Great said this ).

So... three screen shots from the hot lap:

Pic.1: just before the start/finish line - 88% battery charge.

Pic. 2: let's see what happens in the middle of the lap - 72%

Pic. 3: finish line - 65%. Wow!!!

So, without being mathematician like some others:

88-65=23% loss per one HL.
OR MORE THEN 4 (FOUR) HOT LAPS WITHOUT CHANGING MODES AND IN THE HANDS OF A PRO!

Good luck to Lmfao, Treynor and all the DATA carriers, who believe, that 918 will deplete in a single lap.

That's what a call real life TELEMETRY

Firstly, HL won't matter to the P1 on Big Willow, it will win there anyway.

Secondly, it depends where on the straight you look at the charge. Even in the 3rd lap at LS, the battery will be charged at start of the straight but it is running out of charge halfway down the straight, hence why the curves start to trail off around 105mph. So your photos prove nothing, only the telemetry does.

 

[Bucketslash11]

I am not MugabeRobert. I did pinch his graph though, because it's clearer than mine (after he eventually got it right).

the centerlines weren't matching in the final graph (just re-checked it myself so i don't create a contradiction, you're not getting anywhere with this

 

[Emu]

the centerlines weren't matching in the final graph (just re-checked it myself so i don't create a contradiction, you're not getting anywhere with this

The centrelines are not supposed to match, the baseline is. On the P1 graph the speeds are 77mph and 154mph, which is 1.06944 times those on 918 graph. When you reduce the 918 graph by 1.069444 to 93.5% vertically, only the 0mph line will be level on both graphs.

Jeez, this is simple maths. Why is everyone struggling? I blame modularisation.

 

[330CIZHP]

Well, I do have a lot more respect for Porsche after reading this

Shame on Ferrari, shame on McLaren

Last weeks Top Gear episode revealed just how cowardly and insane are the people who run Ferrari and McLaren.

It is known for years that certain car-makers take TV tests too seriously.

Ferrari has dragged a team of factory mechanics along with their media cars, just to make sure all suspension and tyre settings are dialed-in perfectly for whatever track the magazine or TV show had chosen for testing.

McLaren have been using "media test enhancement tactics" of their own. In late 2014, when Porsche 918 beat McLaren P1 in an EVO test around Anglesey, McLaren quickly stepped in with a set of more sticky tyres and offered an extra session with the car, just to make sure the P1 gets the last hooray over Porsche.

None of this, however, compares to the incredible depths of shamelessness and the diva-like demands Ferrari and McLaren were willing to make, when TopGear insisted on taking their cars around track.

It turns out that McLaren did not allow TopGear test P1 on their own test track (which happens to be Top Gear track), because they are afraid that Porsche 918 may be quicker, due to some of the slower corners and all wheel drive.

This is McLaren openly admitting that they are scared of competing with 918, because they think they will lose.

Ferrari, on the other hand, will not provide a LaFerrari, because, according to Jeremy Clarkson, "they are not interested in speed, laptimes or 0 to 60".

Not only is the most iconic performance car manufacturer not interested in performance and speed, they are also making sure that none of their VIP customers are interested as well, by threatening that whoever lends TopGear a LaFerrari, will be barred from ever being able to buy a limited edition Ferrari.

If I was Ferrari VIP customer, I would be insulted by this. I would feel betrayed and would offer my Ferrari to TopGear immediately.

If the mere assurance that their car doesn't get beaten on TopGear is worth more to Ferrari than their most loyal customers, this kind of loyalty is clearly not the kind worth keeping.

The underlying message in all of this is that Ferrari and McLaren do not believe in their products. Unlike Porsche, they are not confident about what they have built.

Empty words and opinions do not make history, facts do. So far the facts tell us that the fastest hypercar in this company is the Porsche 918. And this is not my opinion - this is the truth.

http://fastestlaps.com/articles/shame_on_ferrari_and_mclaren.html

 

[Emu]

So Michelin Pilot Super Sport is now available as OEM on the LaFerrari?

LaFerrari - Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Also looks like the tyres on the new GT3 RS are the same type as the N1 (Porsche) tyres that have just become available for the GT3 RS. Perhaps they were used in the MT test?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake=Porsche&autoYear=2015&autoModel=911+GT3+RS&autoModClar=&frontWidth=265/&frontRatio=35&frontDiameter=20&frontSortCode=59950&rearWidth=325/&rearRatio=30&rearDiameter=21&rearSortCode=61047&tab=OE&filterType=oe

 

[Bucketslash11]

@gtaqv

i see you disagree with a lot of posts that counter emus "facts", yet you have not produced a single countercomment to what we're telling emu

if you're gonna disagree, then please tell os on what point you disagree on (even if the numbers are against your statement)

 

[Emu]

Well, I do have a lot more respect for Porsche after reading this



http://fastestlaps.com/articles/shame_on_ferrari_and_mclaren.html

Read this:

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-24.html#post584642

I hate to add fuel to this already-coruscating thread, but -- this test occurred because I instigated it. I originally simply volunteered my P1 to Randy Pobst, and when MT asked about matching it against a 918, I agreed and specified a customer-supplied 918. I also told them that I wanted to run multiple laps so we could see how both cars performed as their batteries cycled through charge.

Obviously neither of those things happened. Porsche sent a previously-unseen factory car, and sent their own techs, who instructed Randy to alternate HotLap and 1-2 recharge laps. So... the test I am actually interested in ("what happens when you bring your supercar to a race or track day?") has yet to be conducted. Perhaps an actual 918 owner would like to join me at Laguna one of these days?

So in this case, Porsche were not just chickens but 'battery' chickens.

 

[Emu]

@gtaqv

i see you disagree with a lot of posts that counter emus "facts", yet you have not produced a single countercomment to what we're telling emu

if you're gonna disagree, then please tell os on what point you disagree on (even if the numbers are against your statement)

He did actually make a good point with a video showing how having the roof down actually improves lap times a few pages back.

 

[Bucketslash11]

Read this:

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-24.html#post584642


So in this case, Porsche were not just chickens but 'battery' chickens.

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-63.html#post584714

no evidence as of currently

the angelsy 918 also came without support and won

porsche is known for their hands-off approach and so far it's working

and @lbonu1967 can prove if the 918s had alignement that was not factory specified (supertest data)

 

[Emu]

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-63.html#post584714

no evidence as of currently

the angelsy 918 also came without support and won

porsche is known for their hands-off approach and so far it's working

and @lbonu1967 can prove if the 918s had alignement that was not factory specified (supertest data)

Yeah, but they aren't anymore are they? They were asked to send a customer car to a test against another customer car over several laps in succession. That was the request. They turned up with a prepped factory car and a pit crew who wanted to only do hot laps. That's bottling out and not 'hands-off' either.

So think on this next time you accuse McLaren of backing out just based on Top Gear sound bites and say how Porsche is 'hands-off'. Clearly they were 'hands on' and wanted to hide something, which we now know anyway.

 

[Bucketslash11]

Yeah, but they aren't anymore are they? They were asked to send a customer car to a test against another customer car over several laps in succession. That was the request. They turned up with a prepped factory car and a pit crew who wanted to only do hot laps. That's bottling out and not 'hands-off' either.

So think on this next time you accuse McLaren of backing out just based on Top Gear sound bites and say how Porsche is 'hands-off'. Clearly they were 'hands on' and wanted to hide something, which we now know anyway.

again if @lbonu1967 finds that the alignement matchet the factory road alignement, your argument is hanging by a thread (and this wasn't even the WP)

 

[Emu]

again if @lbonu1967 finds that the alignement matchet the factory road alignement, your argument is hanging by a thread (and this wasn't even the WP)

The WP is an even bigger waste of money than Greece. It costs EUR100,000. It saves <2% weight, less still after driver gets in. We're talking hundredths at best.

It also seems this 918 used the new N1 MPSC2, explaining the 1s time drop, so that more than makes up for it and sends any tyre arguments out the window.

 

[gtaqv]

@gtaqv

i see you disagree with a lot of posts that counter emus "facts", yet you have not produced a single countercomment to what we're telling emu

if you're gonna disagree, then please tell os on what point you disagree on (even if the numbers are against your statement)

I'm sorry, I've been following this discussion for some time, it's very entertaining, people make good points and occasionally give good info too, but i can't always be replying to everything i happen to agree or not... Either way, most of the times i would probably just be repeating myself.

Despite Emu not being the only one with some valid positions, i "support" some of his statements at certain times, because judging by the posters activity it might seem like he's the only one to have a certain opinion.

But i think i have "disagreed"(by forum functionality) with a few of his posts, i surely don't agree with everything he says, as could be observed by a few brief discussions we had.

 

[gtaqv]

Manny of our opinions can be subjective, as they're formed from the same facts, we simply read them differently because of the way we judge the innumerable uncontrolled variables... so now i wont be dissecting my following positions.

Out of the top of my head i can say that:

-I think it's great that mclaren wants a test on another track, hopefully they'll finally test this cars on a f1 worthy track.
-I love that all comparisons that were made so far, but it's ridiculous that this hyper cars are constantly tested on such "short" and "tight" tracks, in which, obviously of the two the 918 will have the advantage.

-With so much tire discussion, my position is: Pirelli PZ Corsa < Michelin cup 2 < Pirelli Trofeo R, the difference between them is a bit tougher...
Despite the chris harris tyre test not being an independent one (as it was sponsored by pirelli) is an interesting reference... as many other tests and opinions i prefer not to elaborate too much...
I wasn't shocked with de 3 or 4second diff bettween the speciale and the gt3, because portimão is relatively big track, and where power is more relevant then in the typical small test track.

I also don't think that is irrelevant that 918 HL mode will leave the car "vulnerable" in 1 or 2 laps on relatively small track like laguna seca.

I find believable that the p1 did a sub 7min on the ring and that it could have been faster than the 918 lap, and even if it wasn't between 6:59.99 and 6:57 there isn't enough space for a debacle.

I also cant agree with those for who porsche factory car is above suspicion when other brand's factory cars a frowned upon...

Could go on but for now it'll have to suffice, don't wanna bore you too much with personal opinions...

 

[ajjers]

Yeah, but they aren't anymore are they? They were asked to send a customer car to a test against another customer car over several laps in succession. That was the request. They turned up with a prepped factory car and a pit crew who wanted to only do hot laps. That's bottling out and not 'hands-off' either.

So think on this next time you accuse McLaren of backing out just based on Top Gear sound bites and say how Porsche is 'hands-off'. Clearly they were 'hands on' and wanted to hide something, which we now know anyway.

Er, that was the request from Treynor to Motortrend. As yet we do not know what if any efforts MotorTrend went to procure a customer car, not realistic to expect PCNA to source one either.

And of course McLaren did prep Treynor's P1 in the same way that Porsche prepped the 918.

Also you're speculating that the 918 used the newer spec MSPC2s. A 1s a lap improvement can be achieved just by getting the tyre pressures right. Can also easily be accounted for by track conditions etc.

 

[lbonu1967]

again if @lbonu1967 finds that the alignement matchet the factory road alignement, your argument is hanging by a thread (and this wasn't even the WP)

Confirmed
Lafars .... call me Luque

 

[lbonu1967]

It also seems this 918 used the new N1 MPSC2, explaining the 1s time drop, so that more than makes up for it and sends any tyre arguments out the window.

Pffff.
First you need to be sure. Are you sure ? No
Then the MPSCP N1 are just XL size and mainly durability improvement
It's funny.
After weeks of discussion, about track conditions, temperature, suspension geometry et etc
EMU Switch in playstation mode.

1 seconds in Laguna Seca improvement = Fishy
It's enough to see the mistake done by R.Pobst in the last corner to understand the margin of improvement were high.
IMHO of Course

 

[Bucketslash11]

also i don't know that much about computers but there is something called pixle compression which is something to think of when you tried to get the 0mph mark to meet

also since the 918 is 0,8 seconds faster it wouldn't make sense for the P1 graph to have a faster average and be faster everywhere on the graph

 

[Emu]

Pffff.
First you need to be sure. Are you sure ? No
Then the MPSCP N1 are just XL size and mainly durability improvement
It's funny.
After weeks of discussion, about track conditions, temperature, suspension geometry et etc
EMU Switch in playstation mode.

1 seconds in Laguna Seca improvement = Fishy
It's enough to see the mistake done by R.Pobst in the last corner to understand the margin of improvement were high.
IMHO of Course

I am sure. The N1s are the same type as on the GT3 RS, which are known to be a compound change.

In the P1 you could believe a mistake because it's his first time and, as an MR car, it's naturally more difficult to drive, especially when you're coming into every corner 6mph faster and you have to judge the effect of the aero braking, so it's little wonder the P1s best sectors combined were 1s faster than it ran. The 918's best sectors only gave a lap 0.06s faster than it ran.

Randy's cornering and braking was much more consistent in the 918, so there weren't really any major mistakes, as you can see. Whereas the P1's cornering speeds and braking were all over the place by comparison. Can't really criticise his driving too much though. Heading into the corkscrew at 140mph in a car you're not familiar with probably triggers self-preservation mode and a desire to err on the side of caution. You can see from those 3 traces alone that there's enormous room for improvement in places on every single one for the P1. Whereas for the 918 it's difficult to even see that there are 3 traces in some places on the corners. Conversely the 918's 3 traces can clearly be seen on the straights near peak speeds, whereas the P1's can't. Under braking into the corkscrew, you can see that the 918's horsepower fall-off has actually caused Randy to over brake. He's using the same visual cues but the speeds have changed that much that it's thrown him.

It also makes the Castelloli peak speeds all the more puzzling. They must be the wrong way round. When the P1 is at 141.5mph, the 918 is at 135.2mph on T4-5 straight. The 918 can't possibly get from 135.2mph to 153.5mph in the same time as a P1 takes from 141.5mph to 151.9mph, that's 18.3mph vs 10.4mph. If those peak speeds at Castelloli are correct, it would clearly indicate foul play. It was also 0.2s faster from 60-100mph than any other 918 test.

Larger version.
http://i.imgur.com/dLAcuXg.jpg

 

[Emu]

Er, that was the request from Treynor to Motortrend. As yet we do not know what if any efforts MotorTrend went to procure a customer car, not realistic to expect PCNA to source one either.

And of course McLaren did prep Treynor's P1 in the same way that Porsche prepped the 918.

Also you're speculating that the 918 used the newer spec MSPC2s. A 1s a lap improvement can be achieved just by getting the tyre pressures right. Can also easily be accounted for by track conditions etc.

They could easily have found one if they wanted. That aside, they should have stuck to the spirit of the test, which was several laps. Not doing so makes them battery chickens. Sorry but I don't see why Porsche should be immune from being called out since they insist on doing it with everyone else, even when it's false.

McLaren brought new tyres and fitted them. They did not tweak his car in any way because he watched them. The car was not special in any way because it was a customer car.

I know they used the N1s for a fact. That's not really a problem for me to be honest though. Go have a look on tirerack.

So now you fall back on the 1s improvement can be accounted for by tyre pressure and track conditions? Yet you took a different day lap on different pressures as gospel when Chris Harris did his tyre test with a more affected RR layout car. Even though the MPSC2s on the GT3 aren't even the same loading or design as the ones on the 918. Ha!