Sturz Vorderache is out. Ha! -1deg44' vs -1deg40' to -1deg20'. Oh how the mighty have fallen.Confirmed
Lafars .... call me Luque
Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari
- Thread starter hoffmeister_fan
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boyko23
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So, watching closely the onboard video of the first MT test at Laguna Seca, gives enough information, what happens with the 918’s battery charge through the first, respectfully second and third lap.
It’s more than clear, that:
1. We have no major battery drop on any straight – the average one is around 12-13%;
2. We have tons of charge after every lift off or braking. Massive!;
3. Even starting his first lap without battery to be 100%, he has enough power for at least 3 laps without falling under 0% anywhere on the track;
4. We have clear evidence, that he used Hot Lap – no mode changes seen and equivalent pace with Treynor’s test.
So, telemetry is good, but here the objective was massively different – best lap for the day. So, to rely only on telemetry, we need to answer some questions;
1. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t try different driving modes on these 3 consecutive warming laps?. He did this in Big Willow before;
2. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t use different driving strategies and lift off points? He did that already in Big Willow before;
The conclusion is, that without having the official info from MT, all is just speculation.
will leave here an indicative map of what happens with the battery % of the 918 and waiting LMFAO to find ways to manipulate it.
*markers are indicative for start of straight/end of straight and also, where available in the video.
t=1h1m8s
It’s more than clear, that:
1. We have no major battery drop on any straight – the average one is around 12-13%;
2. We have tons of charge after every lift off or braking. Massive!;
3. Even starting his first lap without battery to be 100%, he has enough power for at least 3 laps without falling under 0% anywhere on the track;
4. We have clear evidence, that he used Hot Lap – no mode changes seen and equivalent pace with Treynor’s test.
So, telemetry is good, but here the objective was massively different – best lap for the day. So, to rely only on telemetry, we need to answer some questions;
1. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t try different driving modes on these 3 consecutive warming laps?. He did this in Big Willow before;
2. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t use different driving strategies and lift off points? He did that already in Big Willow before;
The conclusion is, that without having the official info from MT, all is just speculation.
will leave here an indicative map of what happens with the battery % of the 918 and waiting LMFAO to find ways to manipulate it.
*markers are indicative for start of straight/end of straight and also, where available in the video.
t=1h1m8s
Bucketslash11
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The aim of the test was for fastest lap. Sure Treynor wanted to see which was faster over a number of laps but he was clearly expecting the P1 to be much quicker over a single lap as well.
McLaren set up the tyres with optimum tyre pressures etc just the way Porsche did with the 918. If you want suggest that the 918 was prefiddled then you're free to do so but there is no evidence for this at all. As for PCNA easily procuring a customer car, can you imagine that phone call... "Hello Sir, congratulations on your new million dollar 918, but before we deliver it to you we'd like to give it to Randy Pobst to wrag the s*** out of it at Laguna Seca, is that okay????" Ludicrous suggestion, especially as they had a demonstrator car available.
As for your last point all I've got to say is hahahahahahahaahahahahahaha!
Chris Harris tested the GT3 on different days and guess what, there was a 1s difference in lap times! He recorded a 2.03 on the day of the car of the year test and a 2.02 on the day of the MSPC2 vs Trofeo test. Both the 2.02 (MSPC2 time) and the 2.00 (Trofeo R time) were performed on the same day which is why the results are truly comparable.
Max. = 430VSo, watching closely the onboard video of the first MT test at Laguna Seca, gives enough information, what happens with the 918’s battery charge through the first, respectfully second and third lap.
It’s more than clear, that:
1. We have no major battery drop on any straight – the average one is around 12-13%;
2. We have tons of charge after every lift off or braking. Massive!;
3. Even starting his first lap without battery to be 100%, he has enough power for at least 3 laps without falling under 0% anywhere on the track;
4. We have clear evidence, that he used Hot Lap – no mode changes seen and equivalent pace with Treynor’s test.
So, telemetry is good, but here the objective was massively different – best lap for the day. So, to rely only on telemetry, we need to answer some questions;
1. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t try different driving modes on these 3 consecutive warming laps?. He did this in Big Willow before;
2. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t use different driving strategies and lift off points? He did that already in Big Willow before;
The conclusion is, that without having the official info from MT, all is just speculation.
will leave here an indicative map of what happens with the battery % of the 918 and waiting LMFAO to find ways to manipulate it.
*markers are indicative for start of straight/end of straight and also, where available in the video.
Nominal = 385V
Min. = 283V
At 606A
Max. = 430 x 606 = 261kW
Nominal = 385 x 606 = 233kW (-38hp)
Min. (not 0% SOC) = 283 x 606 = 171kW (-121hp)
Except e-motors have an efficiency rating too, which can degrade when not operated near peak. So there's a whole world of stuff to consider besides just charge levels. Basically if the ECU has any sense, once the battery reaches a level where continued HL operation will be worse than RH operation, it will automatically regulate charge use, which is probably what we're seeing in the telemetry.
By 40-50% SOC, voltage may be 300V, so you've already lost >100hp. I repeat you do not need to be at 0% charge to lose power. According to either Apolo1 or unotaz the 918 manual doesn't actually state what the lowest level of charge is in HL mode. So due to the functionality of HL mode vs RH mode becoming redundant at a given level of charge, the ECU may well start limiting discharge as appropriate.
The tolerance is -1deg40' to -1deg20', it's outside them. I agree with you to be honest but Bono insists on being pedantic about this bullshit.
No that was not the aim!
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/21713-p1-vs-918-a-24.html#post584642
Porsche bottled it because their car is only good for one lap.
They did that the first time around too but it was a second slower. Besides I know they definitely used N1s.
Why would it be a problem? Are Porsches that fragile? I know a lot of 911s have been catching fire of late but surely their flagship hypercar should hold up. McLarens don't seem to be having problems with lots of track days. The amount of them you see being tracked, you'd think they cost <£20k. Still doesn't explain why they bottled out of multiple laps.
Nope, check the numbers after the decimal. The 2:03 is a misprint. 2:03.02, 2:02.02. Same track. That is no coincidence. Hence why you don't see the MPSC2 lap, which is oddly 4 whole seconds slower than a Speciale....hahahahahahahaahahahahahaha! Different loading and size to 918 tyre. Different tyre. Trofeo R was same size at MPSC2s in that test. P1 uses smaller sized Trofeo Rs.
Bucketslash11
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-1,44 is not between those 2 numbers.
What Treynor requested and what MotorTrend decided to do are two different things.
First time round Motortrend used a full fat 918 without any lightweight options. Also more attention would have been paid to tyre pressures when going up against the P1. First time round it would have been the Porsche mechanic putting his hands on the tyres and shrugging his shoulders ala the Autocar test.
Are Porsche's that fragile? I think Porsche's record in endurance racing speaks for itself and they are the only manufacturer that makes a car capable of endurance racing straight out of the box. That does not mean that the typical owner would be happy lending a million dollar car to Randy Pobst, guy's like Treynor are few and far between. Moreover there was no need for PCNA to put owners in such a position when a demo car was available.
Even IF your premise about the 2.03 being a misprint is true then there is still no reason to assume that the GT3 was tested on Trofeo's on a different day to the MSPC2s. Makes far more sense for all the GT3 trackwork to be done at the same time.
Yeah, they ignored Porsche and did 3 laps anyway, you've seen the results.
Yeah right. Lightweight options, all <1% of it.
You tell me.
Fragile egos more like.
So why did it look like Chris Harris had just got out of bed and the cars hadn't been used that day? No MPSC2 hot laps to be seen in either video. 4s slower than a Speciale? I call it as I see it.
If he'd started being 2s slower than a Speciale, and then improved 2s, then I might have bought what they were selling.
Bucketslash11
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trust me, 4 minutes is not noticeable
how far off was the 12c that was tested? (@lbonu1967 Luque)
was it minutes or degrees?
Bucketslash11
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i remember an article in a magazine of the most reliable cars over total of 15 years total if i'm not mistaken
from 1-3 years a toyota was on top, but from 4-15 years (divided into sections of 3-4 years each) porsche boxter and 911 were on top
so much for your speculation, i guess you are the one with a fragile ego
Yeah you're probably right, the lightweight options probably didn't make a huge difference, but the weissach pack aero would have (worth over 4s at the ring if I recall) and the P1 would have got even more of a spanking.
Unlike the P1 the 918 has a race proven engine, doesn't mean that customers should be asked to lend their cars to Motortrend especially as PCNA had a demo car available. Most P1 owners would not be as generous as Treynor.
4s for the speciale over the gt3? As you yourself have said on countless occasions, Portimau is a high speed track and would suit the 458s much more than the gt3. Also as we've also established the 458s ran late in the day with loads of rubber on track as opposed to the 918 which ran early in the day when the track was green and slippery.
One point I will concede is that Trofeo/MSPC2s tests were probably done on different days as Chris is wearing different clothes. Why don't you get Bilbo Baggins to ask him on twitter?
Weissach package is weight only.
http://904.porsche.com/microsite/918/international.aspx?ws=1#chapter-weissach
Half the weight saving of the Weissach pack was already on this car with the lightweight wheels anyway. Meanwhile Treynor's P1 was the heavier options if I recall.
What engine do you suppose the 12C GT3 (Nurburgring 24hr lap record holder) and 650S GT3 (3rd in Gulf 12 hours) have? And unlike the 918 or LaFerrari, if you type McLaren P1 and <insert any track> into YouTube you'll most likely see P1s being tracked on that track. Where has the 918 engine been race proven?
That's the only reason I'd even give the Speciale 2s and the GT3 is not entirely without aero. You don't get 4s for that.
The times make it obvious, different days, different tyre pressure.
Last 15 years is not the here and now. Reliability has gone downhill since the 991 came out. Multiple fires, especially in GT3s, but also in other 911s as above.
A lot less than a degree:
http://www.germancarforum.com/threa...ari-topgear-evo-etc.52070/page-66#post-735837
Hopefully now you'll accept that alignment can be slightly out for non-deliberate reasons. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't even be a tolerance range in the first place.
Perhaps Sport Auto should check the alignment before the test, rather than after, and fix it if necessary, instead of bitching.
<< An der vorderachse liegen spur und sturz leicht außerhalb der vom hersteller angegebenen range. Dasselbe gilt fur die hinterachse. Die einstellungen sind sozusagen fahrdynamik optimiert >>
At the front axle are track and fall slightly outside the range specified by the manufacturer. The same is true for the rear axle. The settings were as it, are optimized for driving dynamics
Emu, Who's bicht ?
The Weissach Pack is not weight only, it has completely different aero at the back and therefore more downforce. It would have been quicker still than the non WP car MotorTrend used at LS
The 918's engine is taken from the Porsche RS Spyder racecar. Here, educate yourself
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_RS_Spyder
4.6 litre, race proven, naturally aspirated v8 producing 608bhp and weighing just 135kg. An outstanding piece of engineering.
And of course the Speciale was 4s quicker than the gt3 at Portimau. Unless you're now accusing Chris Harris of being Ferrari biased rather than Porsche biased? Does your tinfoil hat chafe against your ears?
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