Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari

[treynor]

Hi Ben,
I take it that they ran the 918 in HL Mode? it does make a big difference. Doing the same test in UK next month, agree the only fair way is on the rubber the cars are supplied with etc...

They did, and from my perspective that's fair game as long as it's included in the description. The 918 could only get in 1 good lap at a time, just like the previous one they tested. The P1 by comparison has no 'hot lap' mode but you can get a similar effect by running it in 'charge' mode for a lap until it's at full charge, then turning that off and going for it.

Rather, the basic problem is this: every factory has a strong incentive to cheat exactly as much as they can get away with without being caught. Test results affect brand perception and sales, and they all know it. And since we all want test results to be representative of what we'd experience if we bought the car, this is bad for consumers. Using only customer cars is one way to combat this structural problem; another idea is since vBOX telemetry is now ubiquitous, and you can download the software to read the files, I think mag car tests should make the telemetry from their tests available for download. That way any owner can compare their car to the test car - does it accelerate the same, does it brake the same, does it have the same mid-corner grip? - and many of the common forms of cheating (different tires, juiced-up engine, special brake pads) would be relatively easy to spot, when the test car's telemetry looks materially different from 5 different customer cars.

I'm asked to have the telemetry from all three cars (the first 918, the second 918, and my P1) made available for everyone to download.

 

[Bucketslash11]

Rather, the basic problem is this: every factory has a strong incentive to cheat exactly as much as they can get away with without being caught. Test results affect brand perception and sales, and they all know it. And since we all want test results to be representative of what we'd experience if we bought the car, this is bad for consumers. .

like how mclaren returned to angelsy weeks after the comparison with the trofeo R tyres (and possibly different camber, caster and toe-in angle)

 

[kingjr9000]

*My* idea was to test a customer-owned P1 on retail tires, either by itself or with other customer cars, with the same driver and same track and same day. This approach would eliminate the usual shenanigans of factory cars which sometimes do not perform the same as customer examples.

That is not what actually occurred on Tuesday.

I expect what did occur will provide months of fodder for the interwebs

Wait, so you're saying porsche sent a tuned car? That's not good.

 

[kingjr9000]

We should prepare for a war from Mac fans. I get the feelings porsche did a ferrari.

 

[Apolo1]

Wait, so you're saying porsche sent a tuned car? That's not good.

In my experience Porsche just give the 918 to the Mags, and say see you in few days, no support crew etc. HL mode is not a tuned car, its a standard function, just like sport- plus mode on say a 991Turbo S,

 

[kingjr9000]

He's dropping too many hints that one of them did something. If porsche did end up doing a ferrari, we'd never hear the end of it...

 

[Mafalda]

Hi Ben, how many possibilities to have a LaFe full review?

 

[Apolo1]

They did, and from my perspective that's fair game as long as it's included in the description. The 918 could only get in 1 good lap at a time, just like the previous one they tested. The P1 by comparison has no 'hot lap' mode but you can get a similar effect by running it in 'charge' mode for a lap until it's at full charge, then turning that off and going for it.

Rather, the basic problem is this: every factory has a strong incentive to cheat exactly as much as they can get away with without being caught. Test results affect brand perception and sales, and they all know it. And since we all want test results to be representative of what we'd experience if we bought the car, this is bad for consumers. Using only customer cars is one way to combat this structural problem; another idea is since vBOX telemetry is now ubiquitous, and you can download the software to read the files, I think mag car tests should make the telemetry from their tests available for download. That way any owner can compare their car to the test car - does it accelerate the same, does it brake the same, does it have the same mid-corner grip? - and many of the common forms of cheating (different tires, juiced-up engine, special brake pads) would be relatively easy to spot, when the test car's telemetry looks materially different from 5 different customer cars.

I'm asked to have the telemetry from all three cars (the first 918, the second 918, and my P1) made available for everyone to download.

Respectfully,
I see no problem in running the 918 in HL mode, or the P1 on a full charge, after all they are both" assets" on customer cars. As long as it is pointed out in the test. In fact on these HB cars I would like to know the charge status of the batts, at the start of and at the conclusion of a timed lap.

Thanks for a transparent response.....

 

[Apolo1]

He's dropping too many hints that one of them did something. If porsche did end up doing a ferrari, we'd never hear the end of it...

What, you mean like when AC ran the 918 in none HL mode.....?

 

[kingjr9000]

What, you mean like when AC ran the 918 in none HL mode.....?

No I mean when said that every manufacturer has reasons to cheat: two 918s, his idea was to have a customer owned P1 and 918 come with customer equipped options, then he said that's not what happened, there are two 918s and one P1, then he also said that telemetry data will be shown and will provide information for toddlers to go to war over for months. I'm reading between the lines as well as the hidden message that he's put out. If it wasn't that bad for the 918, there wouldn't be that much for internet racers to fight over since most tests have already shown the 918 to be faster.

 

[martinbo]

What a fabulously entertaining and informative thread.

 

[kingjr9000]

What a fabulously entertaining and informative thread.

What do you mean?

 

[treynor]

Respectfully,
I see no problem in running the 918 in HL mode, or the P1 on a full charge, after all they are both" assets" on customer cars. As long as it is pointed out in the test. In fact on these HB cars I would like to know the charge status of the batts, at the start of and at the conclusion of a timed lap.

Thanks for a transparent response.....

We agree. I expect to see the 918 run in hot lap for the purpose of setting a best lap time. It would also be important for owners to understand what repeatable lap time they could achieve. I would want that information about my P1 too.

 

[martinbo]

What do you mean?

Erm... I meant what I said?

 

[klier]

And I do what I say!

 

[treynor]

Wait, so you're saying porsche sent a tuned car? That's not good.

No, that is not what I am saying either. Get out of binary mode!

I am saying simply that Tuesday's event was not customer-owned car vs customer car as I had hoped. That is a long way from saying that either mfr sent along a non-production-spec vehicle! I am also saying that I hope to establish a new way of evaluating car tests, in which telemetry is used to establish (even post facto) whether a factory-supplied press vehicle's results are repeatable with a production spec example. This change would eliminate much of the structural incentive which currently exists to send along nonproduction vehicles for testing.

 

[ajjers]

What, you mean like when AC ran the 918 in none HL mode.....?

I'm not sure this is true. The problem with the Autocar test at Bruntingthorpe is not that didn't use hot lap mode (the timed runs were definitely not the ones shown in the video). The problem was they did not know how to stall the rear wing which is why the 918 hit the wall between 150 and 200mph. According to the recent Chris Harris COTY video the rear wing can be stalled just by switching from race hybrid to sport hybrid.

 

[kingjr9000]

No, that is not what I am saying either. Get out of binary mode!

I am saying simply that Tuesday's event was not customer-owned car vs customer car as I had hoped. That is a long way from saying that either mfr sent along a non-production-spec vehicle! I am also saying that I hope to establish a new way of evaluating car tests, in which telemetry is used to establish (even post facto) whether a factory-supplied press vehicle's results are repeatable with a production spec example. This change would eliminate much of the structural incentive which currently exists to send along nonproduction vehicles for testing.

Whew! We're safe then! I should really stop being so quick to be paranoid. I have a question about your telemetry testing style: isn't what you're talking about similar to how motor trend does their telemetry during their BDC comparisons? Next: could you tell us how would your style of testing work and would it it differ from regular telemetry testing, or would we have to wait until the article comes out? Also, good luck on trying to establish your style of testing.

 

[ajjers]

Hi Ben,

How good is Randy compared to a normal pro driver at Laguna Seca or a highly skilled amateur like yourself? Did he express a subjective preference for either car?

 

[kingjr9000]

Hi Ben,

How good is Randy compared to a normal pro driver at Laguna Seca or a highly skilled amateur like yourself? Did he express a subjective preference for either car?

I thinks he's going to leave something that important for the article to answer.