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Looks like Bilbo needs a partner, and friends.
Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari
- Thread starter hoffmeister_fan
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hoffmeister_fan
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ho-lee sh**, you guys still talking about tires?
kingjr9000
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Here goes treynor's first impression of the laf and p1:
P1 and LF
First impressions: completely different cars, as distinct as the 12c and 458. Both are delightful to drive. The P1 feels more like a track car behind the wheel: louder, snug seats, stiffer suspension. The LF feels like a really tightly setup 458 Speciale with a beautiful engine note.
Love em both.
P1 and LF
First impressions: completely different cars, as distinct as the 12c and 458. Both are delightful to drive. The P1 feels more like a track car behind the wheel: louder, snug seats, stiffer suspension. The LF feels like a really tightly setup 458 Speciale with a beautiful engine note.
Love em both.
Zafiro
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Nice to know who Treynor is
Benjamin Sloss Treynor is the guy Google hired to make sure its websites never go down. But that’s not his only identity. On another part of the web, Treynor is a kind of automobile-collecting demigod who enjoys the worship of car-obsessed minions from across the globe.
http://www.wired.com/2012/12/treynor/
Benjamin Sloss Treynor is the guy Google hired to make sure its websites never go down. But that’s not his only identity. On another part of the web, Treynor is a kind of automobile-collecting demigod who enjoys the worship of car-obsessed minions from across the globe.
http://www.wired.com/2012/12/treynor/
kingjr9000
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I'm sorry
. I assumed some of you would have heard of him as the guy who bought the yellow 599xx evo [HASHTAG]#512[/HASHTAG].
kingjr9000
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Here goes some more from mclife and it is confirmed that the laf is the most comfy:
(Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakebitten
I'm betting the P1 will rack up more track miles and the LF will rack up more street mileage. Both Im sure will see the track and street but I have heard the LF is more comfortable and more street friendly. Is this your impression as well? End Quote)
That is my impression so far as well. The LF is quite comfortable: the seats are surprisingly cush, it's quieter inside than a 458 Speciale when just cruising around and off the throttle, and the suspension is much more compliant than the P1. The motor is still in break-in, but it's delightful: torquey, musical, instant throttle response.
Handling on the LF is typical sporting Ferrari, which is delightful. It's set up very much "on the nose" on the P ZERO Corsas: the front points & turns instantly, and there's great feedback through the steering wheel when the front tires start to push. Grip is very high, and the G forces build quickly with steering wheel angle. The back end is lively - it stays planted if you're careful with the throttle, but it's ready to provide some slip angle without much provocation. Christine already got one oversteer moment coming downhill in the twisties. Definitely a playful car, but also one which demands some respect - much like the 599XX.
The P1 feels more like a track car which somehow happens to have a license plate. It's louder, more stiffly-suspended, and the seats are pure race spec - deep buckets into which you fall rather than sit and which hold you firmly in place. The front end feels a bit more remote and provides less tire feedback, but the back end is very planted and communicates slip angle beautifully. Oversteer when it happens is easily felt and corrected. The motor is very powerful once the turbos spool up, and in street driving there's very little effective turbo lag because of the electric assist.
With very little driving experience so far, I'd agree with your guess: the P1 will see more track time, the LF will get more mileage overall. I'm less sure which car will be quickest on the track - they're going to be different to drive, for sure, and both have very very high limits. I suspect they're going to be pretty close.
(Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakebitten
I'm betting the P1 will rack up more track miles and the LF will rack up more street mileage. Both Im sure will see the track and street but I have heard the LF is more comfortable and more street friendly. Is this your impression as well? End Quote)
That is my impression so far as well. The LF is quite comfortable: the seats are surprisingly cush, it's quieter inside than a 458 Speciale when just cruising around and off the throttle, and the suspension is much more compliant than the P1. The motor is still in break-in, but it's delightful: torquey, musical, instant throttle response.
Handling on the LF is typical sporting Ferrari, which is delightful. It's set up very much "on the nose" on the P ZERO Corsas: the front points & turns instantly, and there's great feedback through the steering wheel when the front tires start to push. Grip is very high, and the G forces build quickly with steering wheel angle. The back end is lively - it stays planted if you're careful with the throttle, but it's ready to provide some slip angle without much provocation. Christine already got one oversteer moment coming downhill in the twisties. Definitely a playful car, but also one which demands some respect - much like the 599XX.
The P1 feels more like a track car which somehow happens to have a license plate. It's louder, more stiffly-suspended, and the seats are pure race spec - deep buckets into which you fall rather than sit and which hold you firmly in place. The front end feels a bit more remote and provides less tire feedback, but the back end is very planted and communicates slip angle beautifully. Oversteer when it happens is easily felt and corrected. The motor is very powerful once the turbos spool up, and in street driving there's very little effective turbo lag because of the electric assist.
With very little driving experience so far, I'd agree with your guess: the P1 will see more track time, the LF will get more mileage overall. I'm less sure which car will be quickest on the track - they're going to be different to drive, for sure, and both have very very high limits. I suspect they're going to be pretty close.
kingjr9000
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And another batch from mclife:
(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyb
Hi Ben!
Thanks for that. Very interesting. Can you elaborate a little on the tyre feel comment? End Quote)
Surely. I read what a car is doing through:
Visual: is the car tracking on arc I've requested through steering, and does it change arc as I move the steering wheel?
Body: what are the G-forces, what is the road sensation (vibration, etc.), and does the angle or amplitude of the G forces change (i.e when the back end lets go, the G forces in the rear of the car decrease quickly and the overall G force points more forward)
Hands: how much force is required to turn the wheel, and what vibration or sensation do I feel coming through the wheel?
The LaFerrari provides great input through the hands: the steering wheel weights up as G forces build, and as the front tires start to push there's vibration and minute twitches telegraphed through the steering wheel. This makes it very easy for me to tell what the front end is doing. By comparison the P1 has less feedback through the steering wheel -- I sometimes can't tell if the front is pushing -- and more feedback through the chassis.
I found it very comfortable to get into the power and step the back end of the P1 out a bit exiting corners because I could tell what was going on with the rear tires via the chassis (and no doubt the computer was helping me significantly). By comparison I had less confidence on turn-in with the P1 because the front end offered less feedback. My very early impression is that the LF is going to be the opposite - exquisite feel on the way into the corner, more subtle feedback on the exit. However, take this with a big grain of salt - I haven't driven the LF on Trofeo Rs or at the track yet, and the P1 in race mode on Trofeos handled quite differently from the P1 in street mode on Corsas.
This isn't a knock on either car, mind you. They're simply different.
(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyb
Hi Ben!
Thanks for that. Very interesting. Can you elaborate a little on the tyre feel comment? End Quote)
Surely. I read what a car is doing through:
Visual: is the car tracking on arc I've requested through steering, and does it change arc as I move the steering wheel?
Body: what are the G-forces, what is the road sensation (vibration, etc.), and does the angle or amplitude of the G forces change (i.e when the back end lets go, the G forces in the rear of the car decrease quickly and the overall G force points more forward)
Hands: how much force is required to turn the wheel, and what vibration or sensation do I feel coming through the wheel?
The LaFerrari provides great input through the hands: the steering wheel weights up as G forces build, and as the front tires start to push there's vibration and minute twitches telegraphed through the steering wheel. This makes it very easy for me to tell what the front end is doing. By comparison the P1 has less feedback through the steering wheel -- I sometimes can't tell if the front is pushing -- and more feedback through the chassis.
I found it very comfortable to get into the power and step the back end of the P1 out a bit exiting corners because I could tell what was going on with the rear tires via the chassis (and no doubt the computer was helping me significantly). By comparison I had less confidence on turn-in with the P1 because the front end offered less feedback. My very early impression is that the LF is going to be the opposite - exquisite feel on the way into the corner, more subtle feedback on the exit. However, take this with a big grain of salt - I haven't driven the LF on Trofeo Rs or at the track yet, and the P1 in race mode on Trofeos handled quite differently from the P1 in street mode on Corsas.
This isn't a knock on either car, mind you. They're simply different.
kingjr9000
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This is a little snippet of fchat user "driftwithme" and his view on why people think the p1 has turbo lag:
I understand why some people might think the p1 has lag. The car really tricks your mind because when you gun the throttle, there is an instant torque fill that is silent. This happens while the turbos are whistling and gushing while building boost behind your head. Then you get another kick once they open up. Its a bit hard to explain but i have had to change my driving style on track because of this issue. I actually feel the engine to be a bit too responsive, so what i do is shift up a gear or go slow in and fast out in the corners. And here's a photo of his p1:
I understand why some people might think the p1 has lag. The car really tricks your mind because when you gun the throttle, there is an instant torque fill that is silent. This happens while the turbos are whistling and gushing while building boost behind your head. Then you get another kick once they open up. Its a bit hard to explain but i have had to change my driving style on track because of this issue. I actually feel the engine to be a bit too responsive, so what i do is shift up a gear or go slow in and fast out in the corners. And here's a photo of his p1:
Mark ANTAR
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Here goes some more and it is confirmed that the laf is the most comfy:
(Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakebitten
I'm betting the P1 will rack up more track miles and the LF will rack up more street mileage. Both Im sure will see the track and street but I have heard the LF is more comfortable and more street friendly. Is this your impression as well? End Quote)
That is my impression so far as well. The LF is quite comfortable: the seats are surprisingly cush, it's quieter inside than a 458 Speciale when just cruising around and off the throttle, and the suspension is much more compliant than the P1. The motor is still in break-in, but it's delightful: torquey, musical, instant throttle response.
Handling on the LF is typical sporting Ferrari, which is delightful. It's set up very much "on the nose" on the P ZERO Corsas: the front points & turns instantly, and there's great feedback through the steering wheel when the front tires start to push. Grip is very high, and the G forces build quickly with steering wheel angle. The back end is lively - it stays planted if you're careful with the throttle, but it's ready to provide some slip angle without much provocation. Christine already got one oversteer moment coming downhill in the twisties. Definitely a playful car, but also one which demands some respect - much like the 599XX.
The P1 feels more like a track car which somehow happens to have a license plate. It's louder, more stiffly-suspended, and the seats are pure race spec - deep buckets into which you fall rather than sit and which hold you firmly in place. The front end feels a bit more remote and provides less tire feedback, but the back end is very planted and communicates slip angle beautifully. Oversteer when it happens is easily felt and corrected. The motor is very powerful once the turbos spool up, and in street driving there's very little effective turbo lag because of the electric assist.
With very little driving experience so far, I'd agree with your guess: the P1 will see more track time, the LF will get more mileage overall. I'm less sure which car will be quickest on the track - they're going to be different to drive, for sure, and both have very very high limits. I suspect they're going to be pretty close.
And it would be a good idea to reference McLarenLife.com (or provide the full link) for others to follow the original thread instead of copying-pasting...
kingjr9000
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I've posted some more pics of treynor's laf: http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/ferrari-laferrari.48498/page-66#post-728284
kingjr9000
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This is a slightly old little snippet from rennteam Whoopsy, who also has a speciale, f12 and the black 918 that we have on here. On this he states that the speciale is so good, that it can actully be compared to the 918 for sheer driving experience. Now begin to imagine how good the laf really is:
But for the few days that I had been driving the F12, it is beyond what the Speciale can do, the 'lightness' of the Speciale is over rated, with enough power, a car can be agile. The car is very much drivable if I give it a light touch on the throttle even in the rain. Mind you, this one has PZeros on, so it will be much better in the rain than the SuperSports. It is just as dart-y go cart like on steering as the Speciale. And it come pretty damn close to the 918 in accelerate feeling.
From pictures, the F12 always seems to look like a big car, but in real like it is not. It's actually only slightly larger than my 997 Turbo S, maybe 5 inches longer but another 3-4 inches wider, with a cabin only for 2, it is much roomier.
For sure it feels completely different than the FF. I didn't believe it but after driving both, the FF is firmly in the GT category but the F12 is in the sports car side but it's almost a mighty GT. One reason I will be keeping a F12 and the FF but not the Speciale. The F12 is just so versatile.
Not knocking the Speciale, but my 918 just made it redundant. It is a mighty fine car by it's own merit, it feels the closest to the 918, almost like it's conventional powered cousin. Porsche has a lot of work in front of them if they are thinking about doing a FeFi, the Speciale is a tough benchmark to beat and it takes the halo car 918 itself to beat it.
Now that the 918 is sold out, the Speciale is it's closest proxy. Take out the hybrid drivetrain of the 918 and it becomes the Speciale, it is that good.
But for the few days that I had been driving the F12, it is beyond what the Speciale can do, the 'lightness' of the Speciale is over rated, with enough power, a car can be agile. The car is very much drivable if I give it a light touch on the throttle even in the rain. Mind you, this one has PZeros on, so it will be much better in the rain than the SuperSports. It is just as dart-y go cart like on steering as the Speciale. And it come pretty damn close to the 918 in accelerate feeling.
From pictures, the F12 always seems to look like a big car, but in real like it is not. It's actually only slightly larger than my 997 Turbo S, maybe 5 inches longer but another 3-4 inches wider, with a cabin only for 2, it is much roomier.
For sure it feels completely different than the FF. I didn't believe it but after driving both, the FF is firmly in the GT category but the F12 is in the sports car side but it's almost a mighty GT. One reason I will be keeping a F12 and the FF but not the Speciale. The F12 is just so versatile.
Not knocking the Speciale, but my 918 just made it redundant. It is a mighty fine car by it's own merit, it feels the closest to the 918, almost like it's conventional powered cousin. Porsche has a lot of work in front of them if they are thinking about doing a FeFi, the Speciale is a tough benchmark to beat and it takes the halo car 918 itself to beat it.
Now that the 918 is sold out, the Speciale is it's closest proxy. Take out the hybrid drivetrain of the 918 and it becomes the Speciale, it is that good.
kingjr9000
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After most of the owner reviews that we've read, I'm starting to wonder if Ferrari's "tweaking" and "press manipulation" really matters. Because after most of the reports that we've seen from multiple owners basically match the press reviews. And about that time when ferrari pulled out of the match with the 650s, I don't think it was because they were scared, I think it was because they don't really have anything to prove. Don't forget the first time Evo timed the P1 and it came about a second faster than the speciale (even though it was tuned). I'm starting to wonder if mclaren are the ones who really need to step up their game and not Ferrari. (Just my own little summary after researching).
Ps, this speciale/918 comparison is just from one owner, but he just recently sold his 12c after he bought the speciale because of lack of space. He still said the 12c was a great car though.
Ps, this speciale/918 comparison is just from one owner, but he just recently sold his 12c after he bought the speciale because of lack of space. He still said the 12c was a great car though.
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Nobody has to step up their game. The cars are as equal as an E class and 5er are.
kingjr9000
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I can see where you're coming from when you say that, since it's mostly about that person's driving style. I guess I just got a bit too exited about the ferrari reviews and let my fanboyism get the best of me. But what do you think about everything else that I said in the post?
kingjr9000
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Ok.
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