Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari

[Emu]

Ron (and plenty of the others at Mclaren) made some big claims for the P1 that they shouldn't have made and have to various degrees been proved wrong. However that is in the past and we should move on. The problem however has been the claims made by over zealous fans. Initially it was the likes of Peleton25 and Mark Antar hinting at Nurburgring times of 6.3x etc and generally rubbishing the efforts of the opposition. Thankfully they've since stopped posting that sort of nonsense. Instead we are left with you posting irrelevant, misleading guesses and passing them off as facts.

Most Mclaren fans/owners are pretty reasonable guys and it's great to see them use their cars as intended. Unsurprisingly plenty of these same fans/owners find your posts an embarrassment. And because you're so disingenuous everyone enjoys a good laugh when some data comes out proving another one of your nonsensical assertions wrong. The fact that you won't even accept that the P1 has a firmer suspension than the Laferrari despite everyone who has driven both saying so is just another example of how unreasonable you are. But by all means carry on, it is very entertaining, especially when some data comes along to destroy whatever theory you're currently pushing.

Speaking of which, this is the size of the slick patch on a Trofeo (fitted to a 458s). Looks pretty big to me!

This just in. The 918 Cup 2 was never anything like the GT3 Cup 2. The truth has finally out! Now we can stop all the BS, I was right, you were wrong, Luque was wrong, Unotaz was wrong, Apolo1 was wrong, Bovingdon was wrong. Chris Harris test voided. <Please insert all your names here> were all wrong.

http://api.app.evo.co.uk/editions/uk.co.dennis.evo.208_5/data/6264_e31d451be383311a75c5956745ae7cb6/web.html

Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Magnesium roof, 918 Spyder tyres and huge downforce. Meet the most advanced 911 ever built
Words: Dan Prosser Pictures: Aston Parrott

The new Porsche 911 GT3 RS is just 10kg lighter than the GT3 upon which it is based – the smallest difference in kerb weight between the two concurrent Porsche Motorsport models to date. On the face of it that suggests this new version is the least comprehensive reworking of the GT3 yet. A deep dive into the technical details, however, reveals that the opposite is true. This is in fact the most technically ambitious and advanced GT3 RS yet, eclipsing even the special-edition 997-generation RS 4.0.

With the same 493bhp as that run-out model, this latest RS will lap the Nürburgring seven seconds faster thanks to grippier tyres and more effective aerodynamics, despite carrying an extra 60kg. The recorded time of 7min 20sec also puts the new GT3 RS nine seconds ahead of the Carrera GT supercar of 2003.

Remarkable as that may be, this is a car that’s always been about so much more than just the raw figures. Andreas Preuninger, boss of GT cars at Porsche Motorsport, is proud of that lap time, but he is at pains to point out its limited relevance. ‘We are at 7min 20sec with this car,’ he says. ‘Come on, guys, I mean… This is really, really fast. It’s something for the professionals. Most people can’t go beyond 8min 30sec or something. For me it is more important that everybody has fun with the car.’

The tyre is a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 lifted directly from the 918 Spyder. For the first time the rear wheels are 21 inches in diameter; the biggest wheel yet fitted to a GT3 RS (they’ll be the widest, too, at 12.5 inches across). ‘This new rubber is out of this world,’ enthuses Preuninger. ‘It’s tyre technology to the next level. We wanted to use [the 918’s] exact tyre on the RS, but all the CAD work showed us it doesn’t fit. The next problem was the production line – [it is] not wide enough for the 21-inch wheels, so the car got stuck. There were a lot of stones in the way for that tyre and we had to invest an outrageous amount of money. It was a really tough thing to make that tyre fit, but it was well worth it.

‘I would say the tyre is 20 per cent sticker than the GT3’s tyre, but the car’s overall aero is 300 per cent more. The aero is a huge step. The RS has more than double the downforce of the GT3, while still maintaining – and this is the big point – the same coefficient of drag. That’s unheard of.’

The tyres and the aero are just two areas that have been comprehensively overhauled in the pursuit of performance. As we’ll see, the same obsessive level of engineering has been applied to the chassis, the engine and the bodywork, too.

 

[Emu]

You're living in box with a PC and a Modem and I wonder how you can argue about tracks.

You wonder where the custom Trofeo Rs statement came from? Here is your source. Garbage-talker Bovingdon has just restated it.

 

[ajjers]

They stated aspirations and some things they said were confused. When Ron said he beat the 'Star in a Reasonably Priced Car' time by 10s, certain people assumed he was talking about the outright TG lap record, making the P1 as fast as an F1 car, whilst being driven by a fairly mediocre amateur driver. Those people were just stupid. There's nothing else to infer from that matter. If Ron had said he'd been up the runway faster than anything else, those same dummies would probably have thought that made the P1 faster than a Eurofighter. We have no idea how fast it is on the 'ring. The fact remains that it was much faster than the 918 at Anglesey on equivalent tyres and the 'ring will only yield a bigger advantage. It's frankly so fast in triple-digit speeds that it's dangerous. The braking performance at Laguna remains an oddity to the analytical mind.

As regards the LaF Anglesey time, I entered it on fastestlaps referencing the availbale evidence, but it was rejected as a rumour.


All I know is that many testers have commented how well the McLarens absorb bumps on the road. Maybe the LaFerrari does it better but both are very good at it. The 918 less so.

Try posting a picture of a non-worn Trofeo. This is disingenuity at play again.

Brand new Z06 Cup 2. If this tyre were a person, kids would slap them on the head and sing, "Jack-Jack you baldy."
http://www.web-cars.com/images/vette_img/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-tire-2_a dot jpg

Brand new 458 tyre.
http://www.mycarportal.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Pirelli_PZero_trofeo_race_ferrari_458_italia dot jpg

991 Cup 2s, "Auto Stock" (see video info.) - 2:01.52 on Monza through traffic (2:38 - 4:39, VBox at start). 1s difference on the fastest of the fast tracks (no traffic on 458S lap), automatic mode, plus bit of traffic. Chris Harris tyre test, 4s difference on Portimao Cup 2 vs Cup 2???? Something not quite right there is there? 1:59 with Trofeo Rs, or just bullshit??

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Trollcasting. Trollololololololo-heheheheheh! (Same driver.)

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The fact that you've posted these videos is hilarious. Please tell me why you think this owner who tracks his cars extensively has got rid of the MSPC2s on his 458s and replaced them with Trofeos? Just another in the list of drivers who have found Trofeos to be quicker on their cars than MSPC2s. Still waiting for the first guy to find MSPC2s to be quicker than the Trofeos on the same car. You'd thought it would have happened by now.

And as for me posting a bald picture of the Trofeo yes, that's taken from the 458s video at Monza and explains why the 458s was only 1s faster than the gt3. Next time try reading the video description.

 

[Emu]

The fact that you've posted these videos is hilarious. Please tell me why you think this owner who tracks his cars extensively has got rid of the MSPC2s on his 458s and replaced them with Trofeos? Just another in the list of drivers who have found Trofeos to be quicker on their cars than MSPC2s. Still waiting for the first guy to find MSPC2s to be quicker than the Trofeos on the same car. You'd thought it would have happened by now.

And as for me posting a bald picture of the Trofeo yes, that's taken from the 458s video at Monza and explains why the 458s was only 1s faster than the gt3. Next time try reading the video description.

Please explain to me how a GT3 in auto on Cup 2s through traffic is within 1s of a 458S on Trofeo Rs and beating it on Cup 2s. Where is the 4s gap?

Next time don't post a worn Trofeo R and pass it off as new. Worn Trofeo R, more slick, how does that affect dry performance?

 

[ajjers]

Please explain to me how a GT3 in auto on Cup 2s through traffic is within 1s of a 458S on Trofeo Rs and beating it on Cup 2s. Where is the 4s gap?

Next time don't post a worn Trofeo R and pass it off as new. Worn Trofeo R, more slick, how does that affect dry performance?

Can you even read? The worn Trofeo is from the 458s that did the 2.00 at Monza on the day in question. The reason why it was only 1s quicker than the GT3 is because the tyres were knackered. He says so in video description and posts a picture of the tyre at the start of the video to emphasize the point. Yet still some how this is lost on you.

Now tell me why has he switched from MSPC2s to Trofeos?

Your Trofeo picture makes exactly the same point as mine, as the tyres gets wider the slick portion gets wider just like the MSPC2.

 

[Emu]

Can you even read? The worn Trofeo is from the 458s that did the 2.00 at Monza on the day in question. The reason why it was only 1s quicker than the GT3 is because the tyres were knackered. He says so in video description and posts a picture of the tyre at the start of the video to emphasize the point. Yet still some how this is lost on you.

Now tell me why has he switched from MSPC2s to Trofeos?

Your Trofeo picture makes exactly the same point as mine, as the tyres gets wider the slick portion gets wider just like the MSPC2.

No it doesn't. The tread width on Trofeos gets wider as the tire does. On the Z06 Cup 2, the tread width stay the same and a giant 3 inch wide slick portion develops.

What would cause a worn tyre to be significantly slower in the dry? Larger contact patch. 458S had a clear track, GT3 had traffic. 1s difference, not 4s. Today is the day all your delusions were shattered.

1) Chris Harris Test - Wrong.

2) 918 Cup 2 similar to GT3 Cup 2 - Wrong.

3) 918 Cup 2 less sticky than Trofeo R - Wrong.

4) Tyre for tyre the 918 was quicker at Anglesey - Wrong.

Quadruple KO.

 

[Apolo1]

No it doesn't. The tread width on Trofeos gets wider as the tire does. On the Z06 Cup 2, the tread width stay the same and a giant 3 inch wide slick portion develops.

What would cause a worn tyre to be significantly slower in the dry? Larger contact patch. 458S had a clear track, GT3 had traffic. 1s difference, not 4s. Today is the day all your delusions were shattered.

1) Chris Harris Test - Wrong.

2) 918 Cup 2 similar to GT3 Cup 2 - Wrong.

3) 918 Cup 2 less sticky than Trofeo R - Wrong.

4) Tyre for tyre the 918 was quicker at Anglesey - Wrong.

Quadruple KO.

Mycroft, at the end of a difficult week, you have made me smile.....
For that I thank you.....genuinely....

 

[ajjers]

No it doesn't. The tread width on Trofeos gets wider as the tire does. On the Z06 Cup 2, the tread width stay the same and a giant 3 inch wide slick portion develops.

What would cause a worn tyre to be significantly slower in the dry? Larger contact patch. 458S had a clear track, GT3 had traffic. 1s difference, not 4s. Today is the day all your delusions were shattered.

1) Chris Harris Test - Wrong.

2) 918 Cup 2 similar to GT3 Cup 2 - Wrong.

3) 918 Cup 2 less sticky than Trofeo R - Wrong.

4) Tyre for tyre the 918 was quicker at Anglesey - Wrong.

Quadruple KO.

Are you saying that bald tyres are quicker in the dry than ones with rubber on?

 

[Emu]

An end to battery ignorance, ignore the journos

LaFerrari -
163ps (120kW),
2.3kWh,
146kg or 60kg? 146kg may include e-motor?
0.038kWh/kg
52.17kW/kWh
106.5A/kWh

918 -
312+ps (230kW),
385V,
606A,
6.8kWh
138kg
0.049kWh/kg
33.8kW/kWh
89.11A/kWh
Road Test: 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder Review

P1 -
179ps (131kW),
535V,
245A, (131,000W/535V)
4.7kWh
96kg
0.049kWh/kg (joint lowest weight relative to capacity)
27.9kW/kWh (lowest power usage relative to capacity)
52.1A/kWh (lowest charge usage rate relative to capacity - hence no brake re-gen needed)
Exclusive: McLaren P1 Review - GTspirit

 

[Emu]

Are you saying that bald tyres are quicker in the dry than ones with rubber on?

Bald bald no. If there's still rubber on, as there clearly is, then losing some tread depth is not an issue in the dry, it even helps. In fact Ferrari have historically used narrower and shallower tread on many K1s for that very reason.

 

[ajjers]

Bald bald no. If there's still rubber on, as there clearly is, then losing some tread depth is not an issue in the dry, it even helps. In fact Ferrari have historically used narrower and shallower tread on many K1s for that very reason.

Yep but those tyres had no tread left. You called them bald yourself earlier in the thread. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Emu]

Yep but those tyres had no tread left. You called them bald yourself earlier in the thread. Thanks for proving my point.

What's that round the edges? There is still clearly tread and rubber there.

What happens here when those narrow pen knife slits wear down? You basically get left with a tyre identical to a Hoosier R6 across 90% of the width.

Z06 Cup 2

Hoosier R6

 

[Unotaz]

No it doesn't. The tread width on Trofeos gets wider as the tire does. On the Z06 Cup 2, the tread width stay the same and a giant 3 inch wide slick portion develops.

What would cause a worn tyre to be significantly slower in the dry? Larger contact patch. 458S had a clear track, GT3 had traffic. 1s difference, not 4s. Today is the day all your delusions were shattered.

1) Chris Harris Test - Wrong.

2) 918 Cup 2 similar to GT3 Cup 2 - Wrong.

3) 918 Cup 2 less sticky than Trofeo R - Wrong.

4) Tyre for tyre the 918 was quicker at Anglesey - Wrong.

Quadruple KO.

The 918 and the P1 were tested on different days and different conditions. So to be fair, the best way to test the two cars would be to do it on the same day, by the same driver, on their fastest respective tire options (Trofeo R for the P1 and MPSC2 "N0" for the 918).

Wait.........this sounds awfully familiar

Oh that's right, we did have a test like that, it's called the Motor Trend Head2Head! They did test the two cars on the same day, on the same track, by the same professional driver.

Result? 918 won by 0.82s. Using ONE SET of tires. Running ONE LESS session than the P1. Using LESS LAPS to do it as well.

P.S. Do you know how big of a gap is 0.82s at Laguna Seca? 7 grid positions in the 2013 American Le Man GT class qualifying. So much for "P1" huh? Might as well call it P7

 

[Emu]

The 918 and the P1 were tested on different days and different conditions. So to be fair, the best way to test the two cars would be to do it in the same day, by the same driver, on their fastest respective tire options (Trofeo R for the P1 and MPSC2 "N0" for the 918).

Wait.........this sounds awfully familiar.......

Oh that's right, we did have a test like that, it's called the Motor Trend Head2Head! They did test the two cars on the same day, on the same track, by the same professional driver.

Result? 918 won by 0.82s. Using ONE SET of tires. Running ONE LESS session than the P1. Using LESS LAPS to do it as well.

No dice. You can't polish off a 1.3s whooping against a full-on 918 WP after 1 hot lap on a dry 70s track regardless of a different day and the brake issue on Laguna is yet to be looked into. P1 made its Laguna time on first set of tyres anyway. Your arguments are pathetic. Let's face it, the P1 almost matched the 918's superman tyres even on PZCS.

The Anglesey delta is massive - nearly 2%. The Laguna delta is trivial - <1% - and the lap is littered with mistakes.

Ever found it odd that Chris Harris rates the P1's brakes as the best after driving the car on Trofeos, and Bovingdon said nothing on brakes, but now the P1's brakes are flagged up as poor? Very odd don't you think?

 

[Emu]

Now on intent of design:

http://auto.ferrari.com/en_EN/sports-cars-models/car-range/laferrari/#specifications
LAFERRARI: THE MOST EXTREME PERFORMANCE EVER ACHIEVED BY A FERRARI

But Ajjers says not intended to be fast.

http://904.porsche.com/microsite/918/international.aspx?ws=1#
Porsche intro shows 917s... over 30,000 race victories...blah blah

But not intended to be fast.

Also note non-standard wheels as well as non-standard roof:

 

[Unotaz]

No dice. You can't polish off a 1.3s whooping against a full-on 918 WP after 1 hot lap on a dry 70s track regardless of a different day and the brake issue on Laguna is yet to be looked into. P1 made its Laguna time on first set of tyres anyway. Your arguments are pathetic. Let's face it, the P1 almost matched the 918's superman tyres even on PZCS.

The Anglesey delta is massive - nearly 2%. The Laguna delta is trivial - <1% - and the lap is littered with mistakes.

Ever found it odd that Chris Harris rates the P1's brakes as the best after driving the car on Trofeos, and Bovingdon said nothing on brakes, but now the P1's brakes are flagged up as poor? Very odd don't you think?

LOL, keep it coming buddy!

You can't prove the MPSC2 is superior to the Trofeo R, just like I can't prove the opposite is true either. Unless we run the 2 tires on the same car, on the same day, we will never find out. What we can, and we did, is to find out which car is the fastest on the same day, on the same track, with the same professional driver.

We have that with the Motor Trend comparison. 918 won. P1 lost. End of story.

If you read the C7 Z06 redo lap article at Big Willow, Motor Trend says the same thing:

"The big question, then, is whether to reverse the result of the comparison test.....Carlos Lago and I have debated the subject, and we agree it's simply impossible to say without putting both cars back-to-back again. Based on the information we have, the best we can do is declare a mistrial rather than overturn on appeal."

 

[Unotaz]

EMU/MYCROFT/LMFAO:

Let me just remind you of the current scoreboard between the LaF/918/P1 (all results are officially published):

Top Gear Review (Subjective):
1. LaFerrari (1st, 1st, 1st)
2. Porsche 918 (2nd, 2nd, 3rd)
3. Mclaren P1 (3rd, 3rd, 2nd)

Evo UK Review (Subjective)
1. 918
2. P1

Autocar UK Review (Subjective)
1. P1
2. 918

Nurburgring
918 - 6:57s (record holder for production car on road tires)
P1 - No time published

Anglesey (Evo)
918 beat the P1 by 0.2s (first test)
P1 went 1.2s faster on Trofeo R on second test (months after 1st test, Porsche was not invited)
LaF laps 0.5s faster than P1 (on the same Pirelli Corsa tires as P1)

MIRA (Autocar)
918 beat the P1 by 1.1s.

Laguna Seca (Motor Trend)
918 beat the P1 by 0.82s.

There, I'm being a nice guy to you here by highlighting the only test where the P1 won outright.

Now, about that name "P1"....

Because Mclaren?

 

[kingjr9000]

Hey mods, if I could get enough agrees, could you lock the thread since its basically nothing but a 918 and laf bashing and a p1 praising? Or at least until emu leaves or new evidence comes out.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

It's gone from a ruined P1 v LaFerrari v 918 Spyder thread to a ruined thread about tyres.

I wonder what each side is hoping to achieve before they give in?

 

[Monster]

Done, I am locking this thread too.