Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari
- Thread starter hoffmeister_fan
- Start date
How come this isn't in the Australian history text book?Guys - you're never going to win on this...
It couldn't at Castelloli it would seem.
What speed circuit were they racing on?
At the end of the day that 918 WP press car was >100hp up on stock anyway as Castelloli peak speeds proved.
Doesn't help. You're putting more strain on the steering wheel. Hence why FWD cars are slower through corners.
Data clearly says otherwise. There's nearly 2s being lost under braking. Scary but check out the trace. Zero out the braking advantage in the graph and the P1 wins by ~1s. Also clearly highlights areas of AWD traction advantage (T2, T8 and T11).
Whilst the P1 lost at Laguna, its time is a long way from slow, being 3.2s faster than a Viper ACR, which ran the 'ring in 7:12. The 'ring is 6 times as long as Laguna Seca, and it's a much faster track, where the P1's traction disadvantage with be less of an issue, straights are longer relative to braking zones and corners are faster, giving more of an advantage to the P1 in terms of straight line speed and downforce. Furthermore, as Randy stated in the article, the 918 needed to be recharged in between hot laps at Laguna Seca. I think this demonstrates that the P1 is very definitely a sub-7 minute car, despite the fake times posted by the same people who said the P1 had 5 mechanics and a dozen sets of tyres at Laguna.
C&D also got 2.7s 60-100mph, same as Motor Trend, same as Autocar. The 918 has never demonstrated the ability to be faster than the P1 in a straight line, or in terms of peak speeds, anywhere except Castelloli. This isn't a person being sour, these are just facts which don't add up.
Drag is higher on WP cars.
Oh dear Emu, the 918 at Castelloli was the same one that lost to the P1 at Bruntingthorpe. 1000hp my ass. The 918 achieved it higher peak speed than the P1 because it exited the previous corner much faster with more traction (the P1 was on corsas) and it was able to hold on to that advantage. Simple.
If there are any ringers being used it is the black P1 (P1 OOV) Mclaren have used in all the European tests. Chris Goodwin said that it doesn't have normal levels of equipment/sound proofing and is undoubtedly lighter than any customer car. The same goes for the yellow XP model Carlos Lago used for the 1/4 mile run at Dunsfold. McLaren will wheel out P1 OOV for the forth coming Top Gear test, it will undoubtedly perform better than any customer car could have.
If there are any ringers being used it is the black P1 (P1 OOV) Mclaren have used in all the European tests. Chris Goodwin said that it doesn't have normal levels of equipment/sound proofing and is undoubtedly lighter than any customer car. The same goes for the yellow XP model Carlos Lago used for the 1/4 mile run at Dunsfold. McLaren will wheel out P1 OOV for the forth coming Top Gear test, it will undoubtedly perform better than any customer car could have.
Another real world owner finding that Trofeos are superior to bespoke MSPC2s. This is the guy we've seen power sliding his Laferrari around Monza. He's ditched the MSPC2s on his 458s for Trofeos and here he puts up a very decent 2.00.31 at Monza even though the Trofeos are nearly completely worn out.
Here he is goofing around with an awesome overtake at 0.40s and later powersliding round the outside of a Laferrari at parabollica.
And just in case you've never seen him in his Laferrari
Here he is goofing around with an awesome overtake at 0.40s and later powersliding round the outside of a Laferrari at parabollica.
And just in case you've never seen him in his Laferrari
The physics on that just don't work out I'm afraid. Just as a launch is critical to quarter mile ET, so too is corner exit critical to lap time, however neither affects peak speeds much at all. This is because acceleration is much faster at lower speeds, and quicker ground coverage leaves less time to accelerate. In circuit driving, higher speeds also mean earlier braking. Only hp, weight (to a lesser extent) and drag affect peak speed I'm afraid.
Rubbish, P1 owners have clocked exactly the same 60-130mph times as the yellow P1 used in MT's Dunsfold test. Furthermore, Treynor's P1 is not the lightest spec and was still comfortably faster than the 918 at Laguna, even though that 918 was much faster than the one which lapped last year.
You and your Fchat buddies never cease in spamming the net with false garbage, like the 5 mechanics and dozen sets of tyres used at Laguna... or the 7:04 'ring time... At the end of the day, Porsche and Ferrari are the only ones who have failed to provide a customer car for a test. Ferrari have even taken the extra step of prohibiting all instrumented testing and forbidding customers from providing a car for such tests. McLaren have never been anything but straight up and willing in all these tests thus far. McLaren is not the one with the question mark here.
The problem is that many of these 'real world' drivers, who make these claims are not actually fully using the tyres. E.g. the last guy who claimed a tyre delta on McLife was several seconds slower than a Z4 3.0 on Bridgestone run-flats, whilst driving a 12C with Trofeo Rs. You may as well drive a Mondeo to the supermarket and claim a tyre victory because you get back sooner on one set.
It's difficult to say how good that time is because lap times for Monza are very sparse. But the only car of any quality to post a lap was a 2006 997.1 GT3 (415ps). The standard (non-Speciale) 458 was 4s quicker than a 997.2 GT3 (435ps) on Bedford, which is not a horsepower track by any means, and is only half the length. So it doesn't really prove anything.
Pos Make / Model Time Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 2:09.00 '06 415 / 1375
2. Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0 JTDM 2:35.00 '10 170 / 1458 Giampaolo Tenchini
3. Peugeot RCZ GT THP200 2:37.00 '10 200 / 1365 globiracer
tristatez28lt1
Tire Trailblazer
Here is the thing: we can assume, speculate, look at data that demonstrates that the P1 is a fast car BUT we simply don't have a official ring time for the P1 with a video showing us how they achived the time like Porsche showed us. For whatever reason.Emu said:
As long as McLaren doesn't have an objective laptime for the P1, there is no reason to argue anything. End of story. Could have, would have, should have. Having the potential to achieve something and actually going out and achieving it are two utterly different things.
This thread shows that even with clear cut results that show the 918 (or in some cases the P1) win, we argue a tremendous amount (over completely irrelevant and speculative points).
It would be very boring if we didn't.
boyko23
Precision Pilot
From MT... 
Recently, we track-tested a Porsche 918 Spyder and a McLaren P1 to see which was the better million-dollar hypercar. The Porsche may have packed 17 less horsepower from its 4.6-liter V-8 engine and two electric motors, but it ultimately bested the McLaren's P1's twin-turbo 3.8-liter V-8 and electric motor producing a combined 904 hp.
Recently, we track-tested a Porsche 918 Spyder and a McLaren P1 to see which was the better million-dollar hypercar. The Porsche may have packed 17 less horsepower from its 4.6-liter V-8 engine and two electric motors, but it ultimately bested the McLaren's P1's twin-turbo 3.8-liter V-8 and electric motor producing a combined 904 hp.
Oh it wasn't packing 17 less hp. A car weighing 10% more with 17 less hp would get within <2mph on the straight.From MT...
Recently, we track-tested a Porsche 918 Spyder and a McLaren P1 to see which was the better million-dollar hypercar. The Porsche may have packed 17 less horsepower from its 4.6-liter V-8 engine and two electric motors, but it ultimately bested the McLaren's P1's twin-turbo 3.8-liter V-8 and electric motor producing a combined 904 hp.
tristatez28lt1
Tire Trailblazer
In the past italian magazine tested some cars in monza, i can post some numbers:
- Porsche 911 turbo (408 cv): 2.09.5
- Ferrari 355: 2.09.1
- Lamborghini Diablo SV: 2.05.9
The track nowday is a little differente, but lap times are comparable.
Ferrari 430 lap time is about 2.05, Ferrari 430 scuderia about 2.01, Porsche 911 gt 2 sub 2 minutes. So, i could suppose that a professional driver in a Ferrari 458 speciale with trofeo would be able to lap about 1.57.
At least we can take part without cheating, unlike the great chicken-horse. A 'DNS' is still a loss in racing and cheats get disqualified, which is again a loss. So Ferrari have been losers for a very long time.
Defeat? Yes. Heavy? No. Time set is still way beyond what anything else bar the 918 manages, with an imperfect lap and lots of room for improvement.
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