Gone off track Politically-laced off-topic discussion from BEV thread

[Matski]

I sincerely hope the U.S and EU defend their markets and products against these Commies.
For the rest, they can be a global brand in China and maybe the less fortunate countries in the world (AKA every single country except the West)

Wait, so you're anti-free-market-capitalism? Ya dern Commie!

 

[Design FIRST]

Wait, so you're anti-free-market-capitalism? Ya dern Commie!

The only truly sustainable defense of markets is the ability to offer attractive, innovative, highly competitive, appropriately priced products. Legislators should be required to help cultivate an environment that will allow manufacturers to achieve this. In the context of infrastructural, fiscal and regulatory criteria. Manufacturers should be conscientious of the requirement to offer attainable, affordable quality products without shortsightedly focusing on short term capital gain in order to cater to the whims of inpatient, greedy shareholders. The focus should be on presenting high quality, high value for money products and not investing huge sums of money on often fleeting, fashionable narratives that, in essence, have very little to do with the automobiles they should be manufacturing, other than unnecessarily boosting their prices.

 

[klier]

Wait, so you're anti-free-market-capitalism? Ya dern Commie!

I am all for fair and honest free market capitalism. Hence I want to exclude China from the equation. Why is this so hard to grasp for some people? I feel like I have to keep explaining that one. The street has traffic both ways, it's not one direction. Actions and reactions. China wants free trade while protecting their own pathetic enterprises in any which way possible. F'ing LOL.

 

[SKY]

Impossible to compete against a dictatorship. Not when the west economies are mature democracies when workers have rights, are syndicated, etc. The impact in production costs is obvious.

Not sure about the rest of the countries. I’m from Spain. Our problem is we live in a low-cost economy. Everything comes from China cause it’s cheaper (most of the times also worse) and that has had a huge impact on our industry. Which explains why salaries are so low and at the same time why we look after cheap Chinese products. Poverty circle.

Always easier to read a situation once is clearly present in your economy (except for politicians, of course). We are not going to solve world’s problems here on a car forum. But I do have one thing clear: I’m not buying a Chinese car. Nor a Chinese phone for that matter.

 

[klier]

But I do have one thing clear: I’m not buying a Chinese car. Nor a Chinese phone for that matter.

I'd rather walk than buy a Chinese car

 

[kiki voinea]

Nor a Chinese phone for that matter.

Erm....So you are using a Samsung.

But I really doubt you don't have an chinese product.

Not to mention that most ( ...all ) EU car manufacturers use chinese parts.

This chinese hate is kind of hypocritical.

 

[Design FIRST]

This chinese hate is kind of hypocritical.

"Hypocritical" ? That is surely open to debate. But it is undeniably is the dismissal of the reality of crucial co-dependancies. And ironically, the European dependancies are self inflicted to a significant extent. "Germany/solar energy", "Germany/robotics" are but two tags for examples of Germany and Europe permitting things to slip out of their hands and into those of China. Products of myopic corporate greed and the inability to identify big picture scenarios. The Chinese exploited this.

 

[klier]

Erm....So you are using a Samsung.

But I really doubt you don't have an chinese product.

Not to mention that most ( ...all ) EU car manufacturers use chinese parts.

This chinese hate is kind of hypocritical.

We are all well aware that everything we own has parts coming from China, mister Obvious. It's literally what @SKY said but you simply chose to ignore. Now who is the hypocrite here??

 

[SKY]

We are all well aware that everything we own has parts coming from China, mister Obvious. It's literally what @SKY said but you simply chose to ignore. Now who is the hypocrite here??

This, basically.

@kiki voinea I personally try to do what I can in order not to support communism. Trying to avoid any product with Chinese links is silly in this world we live.

Don’t use TikTok either.

 

[Matski]

Hence I want to exclude China from the equation.

I understand that, I don't necessarily disagree, but having the state do that means it isn't a free market - hence, tongue-in-cheek dern commie comment. FWIW I don't perceive China to be particularly communist anyway, it's hyper-nationalist state-capitalist totalitarian regime, state ownership and control appears to be about a thousand times more pervasive than any indication the people own the state.

 

[klier]

I understand that, I don't necessarily disagree, but having the state do that means it isn't a free market - hence, tongue-in-cheek dern commie comment. FWIW I don't perceive China to be particularly communist anyway, it's hyper-nationalist state-capitalist totalitarian regime, state ownership and control appears to be about a thousand times more pervasive than any indication the people own the state.

I know you do, and I agree with this here too. The people only own their own minds.

 

[KiwiRob]

I am all for fair and honest free market capitalism. Hence I want to exclude China from the equation. Why is this so hard to grasp for some people? I feel like I have to keep explaining that one. The street has traffic both ways, it's not one direction. Actions and reactions. China wants free trade while protecting their own pathetic enterprises in any which way possible. F'ing LOL.

View attachment 755064

Isn't that exactly what the US is doing by protecting their pathetic enterprises with sanctions and tariffs?

The Chinese communists just happen to be better at capitalism than the capitalist west.

 

[KiwiRob]

But I do have one thing clear: I’m not buying a Chinese car. Nor a Chinese phone for that matter.

How are you going to remove the Chinese made components in your car and phone, both will be full of Chinese made components.

 

[KiwiRob]

This, basically.

@kiki voinea I personally try to do what I can in order not to support communism. Trying to avoid any product with Chinese links is silly in this world we live.

Don’t use TikTok either.

I do the same with products from Israel.

Not using TikTok is one thing but if you're using Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and YouTube you're giving all you data to the US, you can be a sure as anything the NSA or some other agency has a backdoor into those apps. I don't trust the US any more than I trust China, the US looks after the US they don't give a crap about anyone else's interests.

 

[SKY]

I do the same with products from Israel.

Not using TikTok is one thing but if you're using Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and YouTube you're giving all you data to the US, you can be a sure as anything the NSA or some other agency has a backdoor into those apps. I don't trust the US any more than I trust China, the US looks after the US they don't give a crap about anyone else's interests.

Well, then we clearly differ in our views of the world. I’m not a fan of the US, but I certainly think it is way better than China. Any democracy is better than a dictatorship. Also, I consider people who are indulgent with China or with communism tend to be lefties who see fascists everywhere and then have no problem with left dictatorships like Cuba, Venezuela and the likes. Maybe not your case, but certainly a trend I have noticed.

Not a problem with Israel products on my side either. Which again does not mean endorsement of their ways.

 

[KiwiRob]

IMO if you're buying Israeli products you are supporting them, that in my book makes you complicit and a bad person

I can't blame China for the postion they are in, they were given the opportunity by greedy western companies (who fired tens of millions of people) who off-shored production to China to increase there profits. They would have been foolish not to have leapt at the opportunity.

I doubt Cuba would be a dictatorship today if the US had lifted its embargo decades ago. Note Castro other-threw the US backed Batista dictatorship. Venezuela is also a problem the US had a hand in making.

I will add I'm definitely not a leftie.

 

[klier]

I do the same with products from Israel.

Yeah, how you're Hamas stuff going? Sprinkled with a bit of Hezbollah?

I will add I'm definitely not a leftie.

No it appears you just support terrorism

 

[martinbo]

Yeah, how you're Hamas stuff going? Sprinkled with a bit of Hezbollah?



No it appears you ***TO ME*** just support terrorism

No, it only appears to you. Your hate-laced rhetoric has no place on this forum.

It appears TO ME that you support the unlawful killing of innocent civilians.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I do the same with products from Israel.

Not using TikTok is one thing but if you're using Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and YouTube you're giving all you data to the US, you can be a sure as anything the NSA or some other agency has a backdoor into those apps. I don't trust the US any more than I trust China, the US looks after the US they don't give a crap about anyone else's interests.

I've refused to work with Israeli companies my entire adult life so I see where you are coming from.
I don't want to support neither the US/Israel nor China but I have to admit I use Google and Youtube and no doubt there's chinese components in everything I use on a daily basis be it phone or car.
I'm also a car guy that loves GM and Ford products and want EVs that represent better value.

I understand I don't do much that will actually "improve the world" and most of the time act in a selfish and short-sighted way so I refrain from preaching as more often than not I'll come out as a hypocrite and rightfully so.

If the world is going to sh!t I'd rather enjoy some good cars while it lasts... Chinese, American... send them all!

 

[KiwiRob]

Yeah, how you're Hamas stuff going? Sprinkled with a bit of Hezbollah?



No it appears you just support terrorism

Why is it terrorism, why isn't it fighting colonial oppression? Do you consider the Stern Gang, Irgun and Haganah as terrorists? They commented incredible atrocities up to 1947, in 1948 they formed the nucleus the IDF. when you boil it all down its a property right issue, the Palestinians were driven off there land, kicked out of there homes and villages and didn't receive any compensation. They were then thrown into refugee camps and left to rot.