Gone off track Politically-laced off-topic discussion from BEV thread

[KiwiRob]

No, it is not "okay". Nor is the rapid upward spiral of anti Jewish sentiment (note anti-JEWISH) that has become increasingly virulent, increasingly ferocious in Europe, North America and elsewhere.

Geez, now I am violating my own resolution to steer way clear of politics on these discussion boards. I REALLY need to get a grip on myself and STFU.

Anti jewish sentiment is not ok, but sticking it to zionists (like Biden) and Israeli citizens is fine by me. They are the problem, the jewish guy that I used to work with in Norway is not. People need to learn to differentiate between an Israeli/zionist and a person who is jewish.

 

[KiwiRob]

I believe we are not even going to agree on the maths here.

Let's take your numbers as valid. You are stating that the movement of c.600k people in c.70 years is fast? Just in the first half of 2024, >25k immigrants from Africa have arrived to Spain. And again, what would you do with immigrants traveling to a region if they buy lands? Would you restrict it? And if they don't acquire lands and just move to that region? Do you ban them? If yes, would you do the same with all the immigrants from Africa moving nowadays to Europe?

You mention the Palestinians living there for thousands of years. I guess you also know what was the name that part of the world had back in the Roman Empire days. It was not Palestine, but Judaea. Imagine why was that. So let's not pretend the Jews chose that part of the world to be for a reason. Jews have been expelled from almost every country (including mine) and mistreated for centuries. Which obviously gives them no right to do the same with others now. But since you clearly refuse to mention this on any of your interventions, it might be good that someone does.

Regarding the Arab region opinion. What were they going to say? In case you have not noticed, Arabs don't want Jews on that part of the world. What is the solution proposed by Iran to the Palestinian conflict? Let's say the international community prevails and a two-state solution is finally reached. We don't have a single evidence the Arab world is going to accept it. Cause talks have already been there, and they did not move forward for a reason (let me guess, all your recent research in the last year points to the blame being on the US and the west in general).

I would have never given a state to a group of individuals based on their religion. I am not a religious person, nor am I Jew, so maybe I lack the sensitivity here. But once it has been done, and taking into account in the other side of the conflict we have not only innocent civilians dying by the hand of Israel, but also terrorists which once were elected by the Palestinians and also some of the worst enemies of freedom in the world (like Iran or Russia), writing about the conflict only mentioning the evil Jews just screams antisemitism IMO.


A fantastic and brief summary of the conflict. I would change nothing from this post by Martin. Basically cause I see no hate on it, which is what seems to be present in most of the discourse around this conflict.

It’s very fast. You can't relate what happened over a century ago to how rapidly people move around the world today, to do so is incredibly ignorant.

The worlds population around the time of the first Aliyah was approx 1.4b, in 1947 it was about 2.5b, today it’s close to 8.2b, so back then 600k people was a lot, especially in such a small geographic area.

In the early 2nd century CE, the Roman province called Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina (literally, "Palestinian Syria").

There will never be a 2 state solution, Israel does not want a 2 state solution, they have never wanted a 2 state solution, they want to expel all Palestinians from Palestine. They have purposely destroyed everything in Gaza, they have dropped more bombs on Gaza than the RAF dropped on Dresden and Hamburg during WW2.

Yesterday the IDF launched a fairly large incursion into the West Bank, an area the world recognises as illegally occupied since 1967. Nearly 700 West Bank Palestinians have been killed this year, mostly by settlers taking land and the IDF helping the settlers.

Arabs, Christian’s and Jewish people lived in harmony for centuries, the problems started when Israel was forced on them. As you say no country should be founded based off a religion and text in a book which by and large is the first fantasy novel.

If the western nations especially the US stopped supporting Isreal and allowing them to continue what they are doing the conflict would have ended a long time ago.

As for Oct 7th, I believe the Israeli govt knew what was coming and decided to allow it to happen. It makes no sense that a border with some of the highest security measures in the world was breached so easily, and that it took nearly 4 hours for the IDF to respond. There is an airbase with Apache attack helicopters 20 minutes flying time from Gaza, this base has helicopters on 24 hour alert. Also most of the 1200 people who were killed 600 of them were IDF, and many of the civilians were killed by friendly fire. Israel needed an excuse to start removing Palestinian's and restart the Gaza settlements, this was it, it’s backfired on them in so many ways.

 

[SKY]

It’s very fast. You can't relate what happened over a century ago to how rapidly people move around the world today, to do so is incredibly ignorant.

The worlds population around the time of the first Aliyah was approx 1.4b, in 1947 it was about 2.5b, today it’s close to 8.2b, so back then 600k people was a lot, especially in such a small geographic area.

In the early 2nd century CE, the Roman province called Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina (literally, "Palestinian Syria").

There will never be a 2 state solution, Israel does not want a 2 state solution, they have never wanted a 2 state solution, they want to expel all Palestinians from Palestine. They have purposely destroyed everything in Gaza, they have dropped more bombs on Gaza than the RAF dropped on Dresden and Hamburg during WW2.

Yesterday the IDF launched a fairly large incursion into the West Bank, an area the world recognises as illegally occupied since 1967. Nearly 700 West Bank Palestinians have been killed this year, mostly by settlers taking land and the IDF helping the settlers.

Arabs, Christian’s and Jewish people lived in harmony for centuries, the problems started when Israel was forced on them. As you say no country should be founded based off a religion and text in a book which by and large is the first fantasy novel.

If the western nations especially the US stopped supporting Isreal and allowing them to continue what they are doing the conflict would have ended a long time ago.

As for Oct 7th, I believe the Israeli govt knew what was coming and decided to allow it to happen. It makes no sense that a border with some of the highest security measures in the world was breached so easily, and that it took nearly 4 hours for the IDF to respond. There is an airbase with Apache attack helicopters 20 minutes flying time from Gaza, this base has helicopters on 24 hour alert. Also most of the 1200 people who were killed 600 of them were IDF, and many of the civilians were killed by friendly fire. Israel needed an excuse to start removing Palestinian's and restart the Gaza settlements, this was it, it’s backfired on them in so many ways.

It’s hard to debate with anyone calling you ignorant while at the same time he displays such fanatism and partiality.

Since you seem unable to display any bit of capability to put aside that hate and go as far as stating the Jews allowed a terrorist attack on their own soil, I’ll leave it here.

I believe I’m quite younger than you, but the years I have been around internet boards have already taught me that fanatism is beyond any sort of debate.

Cheers!

 

[klier]

It’s hard to debate with anyone calling you ignorant while at the same time he displays such fanatism and partiality.

It's like a middle school essay. Teacher would rate it 4/10 due to baseless wild speculation and personal bias.

As for Oct 7th, I believe the Israeli govt knew what was coming and decided to allow it to happen.

Of course. And the FBI/CIA is responsible for 9/11.

 

[KiwiRob]

It’s hard to debate with anyone calling you ignorant while at the same time he displays such fanatism and partiality.

Since you seem unable to display any bit of capability to put aside that hate and go as far as stating the Jews allowed a terrorist attack on their own soil, I’ll leave it here.

I believe I’m quite younger than you, but the years I have been around internet boards have already taught me that fanatism is beyond any sort of debate.

Cheers!

Where did I say jews? I said Israelis, you have to differentiate between jews and Israeli citizens, they are not mutually interchangeable, you should start reading comments from Norman Finkelstein and Daniel Levy. A lot of jews living outside Israel are horrified at what the Israeli govt is doing.

Allowing Oct 7th to happen gives Israel a lot of rope to do whatever they want to the Palestinians, they know the US will veto any and all censorship of them in the UN. US politicians are in the back pocket of AIPAC, money talks, AIPAC pays. A sensible level retaliation would have been killing a few thousand Palestinians. Not 40000, or if the Lancet and Johns Hopkins medical journals are correct its anywhere from 80000 to 186000 deaths.

International team including Johns Hopkins experts makes excess deaths projections in Gaza

Johns Hopkins civil and systems engineering professor Tak Igusa explains how the research team modeled projections of future casualties from trauma, infectious diseases, and other factors in Gaza

hub.jhu.edu

The Lancet and Genocide By “Slow Death” in Gaza

A recent survey of Middle East scholars found that most regard Israel’s actions in Gaza since October 2023 either as “genocide” (34 percent) or as “major war crimes akin to genocide” (41 percent). The survey’s authors note that the respondents in the survey are long-time followers of the...

arabcenterdc.org

I see you and Klier don't care, you have an agenda, they're just Muslims, they don't count. Your attitude it obvious, it's attitudes like yours that are part of the reason why there is so much distrust of the western world from the rest of the world. They see whats happening and they see that the organisations who are supposed to stop this are circumvented by the west and in particular the US, its a real case of do what we say not what we do.

The end goal is to remove Palestinians from Gaza, where it's backfired on them is the Palestinians aren't leaving, they know if they go they will never be allowed back, just as they aren't allowed back into Israel. The next step which is starting is to carry out the same kind of operation in the west Bank, which looks like its already started. Anyone who is supporting what Israel is doing is pond scum.

They did know it was coming, it's been report by Haaretz that they knew about it before time. Sometimes when it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its not a chicken.

Report: New Evidence Reveals IDF Had Detailed Prior Knowledge of Hamas Plan to Raid Israel
A never-before-seen IDF document surfaces startling new details of Hamas' operational plans to invade Israel; The report outlines Hamas orders to take between 200-250 Israelis hostage.

A newly surfaced document reveals that Israel Defense Forces and Israeli intelligence systems had detailed knowledge of Hamas' plan to raid Israel, including the number of hostages to be taken and specific instructions for their treatment while in captivity.

According to a Monday night report presented by Israel's public broadcaster, Kan, the document, which is based on information from military intelligence's 8200 Unit, began circulating on September 19, less than three weeks before the October 7 massacre.

Report: New evidence reveals IDF had detailed prior knowledge of Hamas plan to raid Israel

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[KiwiRob]

It's like a middle school essay. Teacher would rate it 4/10 due to baseless wild speculation and personal bias.



Of course. And the FBI/CIA is responsible for 9/11.

What has 9/11 got to do with this?? Nothing is the answer. 9/11 or something like it was inevitable, the US has been meddling in the Middle East since the end of WW2, they've made far more friends then enemies.

 

[Matski]

It doesn't matter where anybody here is prepared to draw the line, or which parts of history you want to normalise, and which you want to demonise - if you let terrorism justify war crimes, and war crimes justify terrorism, the cycle of hate and dead, innocent people who are just trying to live their lives, won't stop.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Of course. And the FBI/CIA is responsible for 9/11.

Haha, spot on. I was reading KiwiRob's essay and thought the same: Next, he's going to say 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government. (Just as before he stated the US is responsible for Castro and Chavez/Maduro)

I wonder who from the USA hurt him so bad...... May be a yankee stole his girl back in elementary school.

 

[Matski]

Without taking sides, it's known that the CIA advocated for false flag terrorist attacks on (and above, well above) US soil, in order to incriminate the Cubans, to justify an invasion.

 

[KiwiRob]

Haha, spot on. I was reading KiwiRob's essay and thought the same: Next, he's going to say 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government. (Just as before he stated the US is responsible for Castro and Chavez/Maduro)

I wonder who from the USA hurt him so bad...... May be a yankee stole his girl back in elementary school.

The US has messed around in the Middle East for so long, acting with impunity 9/11 was inevitable, there was no need to orchestrate it. I feel pretty confident that something like 9/11 will happen again in the future.

 

[KiwiRob]

For those who think the 2 state solution is desirable, what are you going to do with the West Bank settlements? Do those Israelis become Palestinian citizens? If you think Israel is going to give up that territory you’re mental, Israel does not want it. A Palestinian state wouldn’t function if it’s full of Jewish settlements.

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[Design FIRST]

Without taking sides, it's known that the CIA advocated for false flag terrorist attacks on (and above, well above) US soil, in order to incriminate the Cubans, to justify an invasion.

1953 coup d'etat that lead to the toppling of Iranian prime minister Mosaddegh...Protective hand being held over many WWII Nazi war criminals... Much "dirty work" conducted by the CIA.

 

[KiwiRob]

1953 coup d'etat that lead to the toppling of Iranian prime minister Mosaddegh...Protective hand being held over many WWII Nazi war criminals... Much "dirty work" conducted by the CIA.

Which enabled the US to install the Shah as their friendly dictator, which ultimately led to the 1979 Islamic Revolution. All because Mosaddegh wanted foreign oil companies to open their books to ensure they paid enough royalties on the oil they were drilling, when they refused he nationalised them.

 

[KiwiRob]

When you watch this it’s horrifying that someone from the US is allowed to do what she will ultimately do. Settler violence against the Palestinians is beyond believe, Israel won’t reign then in, due to the right of return them need to continually take land from the West Bank. And you think Palestinians are to blame for the two state solution not working, it can’t work as long as there are 700000 Israeli settlers living on stolen land in the West Bank.

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[Gianclaudio]

Without taking sides, it's known that the CIA advocated for false flag terrorist attacks on (and above, well above) US soil, in order to incriminate the Cubans, to justify an invasion.

But again, you're showing just one side of the coin. How is different from Cuban's intervention in Angola, Congo or Bolivia.
What was Che Guevara and his guerrilla doing in my country? Tourism?

Edit: An what a pity they didn't full out invade and took that cancer from
Cuba, which sadly has metastasize all over Latin America.

Also, I find this fascinating: I clearly remember the US ambassador Manuel Rocha (at that time) openly asking not to vote for Morales (the left party who has ruled for the last 20 years) in the 2003 elections, because Bolivia could lose support from the USA.
Of course, people would do otherwise.
20 years later, Rocha was discovered to be working for the cuban government all the time:

US diplomat turned Cuban spy jailed for 15 years

Victor Manuel Rocha is believed to have spied for communist nation for more than four decades.

www.bbc.com

Former US ambassador sentenced to 15 years in prison for serving as secret agent for Cuba

A former career U.S. diplomat has been sentenced to 15 years in federal prison after admitting he worked for decades as a secret agent for communist Cuba.

apnews.com

But yeah, it's always and only the USA. There wasn't any British, French or soviet Russian involvement in middle east -as per KiwiRob-
There weren't nor there are current interventions by Cuba/Russia/China in Latin America

 

[Design FIRST]

Those who are not directly involved really have absolutely no idea of the covert agendas of sophisticated intelligence services. Not only regarding their capacities enabling them to operate and execute, but also regarding the discourse between what the layman would conceive as being "unthinkable bedfellows". Regardless of whether those intelligence services are those of the USA, UK, EU member states, Russia, China, Israel, Iran, India, Pakistan, Brasil...and...and... Intelligence services are often theatrically emotionalized, dramatic liberties applied, perceived images proliferated on TV and movie screens, marketed as entertainment.

 

[J.E]

Battery Electric Vehicles have hit a technological dead end, because manufacturers are not able to make BEVs that are capable of recharging from 0 to 100% in five minutes or less.

Not to mention that quick charging destroys the battery life, so there's no room for improvement for BEVs anymore. It's game over. Besides, there's not actual customer demand for BEVs, there is coerced demand for BEVs. Nobody in their right mind wants a car that doesn't go very far and takes too long to be recharged.

The European Union is shoving electrification down European's throats, because they were dumb enough to rely on Russian oil and gas, rather drill, baby drill. Stupid idiots. This coerced electrification will drive social inequality even further and suddenly Brazilians will not feel the need to migrate to Europe in search of better life opportunities as Europe will become a poor continent, despite all the supposedly bright, smart, tall white men over there.

Congrats, morons, you have dug your own f#cking grave.

 

[Matski]

The European Union is shoving electrification down European's throats, because they were dumb enough to rely on Russian oil and gas, rather drill, baby drill. Stupid idiots.

Reliance on Russian gas has certainly impacted the energy sector in Europe, but I'm sceptical the need for electrification of cars has anything to do with that. The leading petroleum suppliers in Europe are European. The push for electrification has been more about GHG emissions than anything else.

This coerced electrification will drive social inequality even further

This is one of my biggest concerns also. Physical mobility is a key driver of social mobility. Governments wanting to tackle not only emissions but social and economic issues need to be improving public transportation infrastructure as an alternative if the accessibility of cars becomes more limited. If we stopped building our communities around cars, less people would be impacted by the social and economic barriers inherent in not owning a car.

 

[KiwiRob]

But yeah, it's always and only the USA. There wasn't any British, French or soviet Russian involvement in middle east -as per KiwiRob-
There weren't nor there are current interventions by Cuba/Russia/China in Latin America

Except I didn't say that. I was quite clear in my post about the issues with creating Israel, the UK were the instigator. The US thought has been screwing with the Middle East since 1947, many of the regions problems are caused by the US giving carte blanche to Israel, the vast majority of Vetos in the UN are from the US vetoing sanctions of Israel. Lets also not forgot George Bush II's claim that god told him top free the Iraqi people, him and Blair both should be rotting in prison today.

 

[KiwiRob]

Battery Electric Vehicles have hit a technological dead end, because manufacturers are not able to make BEVs that are capable of recharging from 0 to 100% in five minutes or less.

Not to mention that quick charging destroys the battery life, so there's no room for improvement for BEVs anymore. It's game over. Besides, there's not actual customer demand for BEVs, there is coerced demand for BEVs. Nobody in their right mind wants a car that doesn't go very far and takes too long to be recharged.

The European Union is shoving electrification down European's throats, because they were dumb enough to rely on Russian oil and gas, rather drill, baby drill. Stupid idiots. This coerced electrification will drive social inequality even further and suddenly Brazilians will not feel the need to migrate to Europe in search of better life opportunities as Europe will become a poor continent, despite all the supposedly bright, smart, tall white men over there.

Congrats, morons, you have dug your own f#cking grave.

Who needs to charge from 0-100% in 5 minutes? I've now owned EV's for 2.5 years and have never needed to do this.

You can't drill baby drill in the EU because there are no deposits worth drilling. the only places left to drill are off Lofoten and in the Barrett's Sea, the UK, German, Dutch sectors of the North Sea are tapped out. Lofoten is Norwegian and the Barretts is shared between Russia and Norway. There is oil and gas in both locations, a lot, the problem it's in deeper water than has ever been drilled before, the cost to develop these areas with today's technology has made it to expensive.

The EU needs to pull it's big boy pants on an get on with electrification. They need to set a date and stick to it. they then need to set a date to remove all the fossil fueled vehicles from the roads, 10-15 years from the banning of sale of ICE vehicles should be enough.

Germany's downfall is partly due to reliance on Russian gas (there wasn't anything else) and partly because the govt didn't halt closing the nuclear power stations when access to cheap gas was cut off, the power stations is all on them, its an own goal nearly are large as Brexit.