One supercar or several CSL versions?
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EnI
Piston Pioneer
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Mind that this strategy review is destined for investors mainly. No detailed info for general public.
M cars are not core BMW products. But it was pointed out before M product portfolio would expand a lot, so would the M3 CSL get sibling.
Regarding performance cars I guess you are talking about "supercar", or something similar.
Like I said earlier: right now BMW are focused on securing the future, so the irrational products like supercars or super-coupes are not #1 priority.
But be sure some of such cars will come after 2012 (eg. Z8 / M10).
Till the end of 2012 - so in 5 years - BMW are to launch 6 completely new models: 1er coupe, 1er cabrio, X6 SAC, PAS ("F5"), X1 SAV, 4dr GT ("8er").
Not enough for you?
And be sure in the time frame from 2013 till 2020 we will also get several new BMW models (candidates: Z2, Z8, M10, X2, X4, F3, F2, 1er sedan, 1er Touring, etc).
And since Mini & RR are also brands in BMW AG portfolio they were mentioned in a paragraph explaining product line expansion.
Mind that this strategy review is destined for investors mainly. No detailed info for general public.
M cars are not core BMW products. But it was pointed out before M product portfolio would expand a lot, so would the M3 CSL get sibling.
Regarding performance cars I guess you are talking about "supercar", or something similar.
Like I said earlier: right now BMW are focused on securing the future, so the irrational products like supercars or super-coupes are not #1 priority.
But be sure some of such cars will come after 2012 (eg. Z8 / M10).
Till the end of 2012 - so in 5 years - BMW are to launch 6 completely new models: 1er coupe, 1er cabrio, X6 SAC, PAS ("F5"), X1 SAV, 4dr GT ("8er").
Not enough for you?
And be sure in the time frame from 2013 till 2020 we will also get several new BMW models (candidates: Z2, Z8, M10, X2, X4, F3, F2, 1er sedan, 1er Touring, etc).
And since Mini & RR are also brands in BMW AG portfolio they were mentioned in a paragraph explaining product line expansion.
EnI
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
I'm not sure that cars like M CS / CSL - the limited editions - are not a relevant topic for a future strategy presentation.
Like I said: this presentation targeted investors & business public - and they are mostly interested in money and even more money - and not in supercars or street legal racing cars.
I'm not sure that cars like M CS / CSL - the limited editions - are not a relevant topic for a future strategy presentation.
Like I said: this presentation targeted investors & business public - and they are mostly interested in money and even more money - and not in supercars or street legal racing cars.
PanterroR
Lap Time Luminary
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
For me certainly not. I want more performance orientated cars and less cruisers and comfortable "ships"...
Good you didn't told us what to expect from 2020 to 2065!
C'mon, man...
Till the end of 2012 - so in 5 years - BMW are to launch 6 completely new models: 1er coupe, 1er cabrio, X6 SAC, PAS ("F5"), X1 SAV, 4dr GT ("8er").
Not enough for you?
For me certainly not. I want more performance orientated cars and less cruisers and comfortable "ships"...
Good you didn't told us what to expect from 2020 to 2065!
C'mon, man...
EnI
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Saša & Andreas, if you two are willing to finance R&D, production & marketing activities for a new BMW supercar or super-performance car I'm sure BMW AG will be interested to build it. Instantly.
Top performance cars are a niche of a niche. Not very significant & important for the business.
But be sure we will get some new M & CSL cars in the next years. And zillions new great "civil" engines in regular models (eg 400+HP V8 TT).
6 billion Euro cost-cutting program by 2012 (incl R&D costs being cut) is not compatible with R&D-cost-extensive supercar.
Right now - in the next 5 years - BMW will try to please the investors more. And I'm sure soon after that also the car enthusiast needs will also be addressed.
Although I'm not quite sure who in this forum is capable of buying a limited-edition BMW supercar. Or even a CSL model. I guess not many.
And I'm sure BMW will not build a supercar only to satisfy some internet-based car enthusiast's wet dreams.
Or only to please automotive press.
I'm going to abandon BMW AG the same day they decide to build a specially-designed stand alone supercar (not based on same existing regular model). Eg. a car like M1 was. And I'm sure BMW CEO will be fired on the same day as well.
Saša & Andreas, if you two are willing to finance R&D, production & marketing activities for a new BMW supercar or super-performance car I'm sure BMW AG will be interested to build it. Instantly.
Top performance cars are a niche of a niche. Not very significant & important for the business.
But be sure we will get some new M & CSL cars in the next years. And zillions new great "civil" engines in regular models (eg 400+HP V8 TT).
6 billion Euro cost-cutting program by 2012 (incl R&D costs being cut) is not compatible with R&D-cost-extensive supercar.
Right now - in the next 5 years - BMW will try to please the investors more. And I'm sure soon after that also the car enthusiast needs will also be addressed.
Although I'm not quite sure who in this forum is capable of buying a limited-edition BMW supercar. Or even a CSL model. I guess not many.
And I'm sure BMW will not build a supercar only to satisfy some internet-based car enthusiast's wet dreams.
Or only to please automotive press. I'm going to abandon BMW AG the same day they decide to build a specially-designed stand alone supercar (not based on same existing regular model). Eg. a car like M1 was. And I'm sure BMW CEO will be fired on the same day as well.
bmer
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
True, I just thought about this. I bet BMW is preparing for the strict emission laws that have been proposed. This procedure has propably affected their future model plans. So most likely this means less high-consumption vehicles and more low-emission models.
Especially now when EU is trying to de facto ban performance cars due excessive gas emissions!
True, I just thought about this. I bet BMW is preparing for the strict emission laws that have been proposed. This procedure has propably affected their future model plans. So most likely this means less high-consumption vehicles and more low-emission models.
PanterroR
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Wrong; as long as their car suits my character and my style, meets all my wishes and expectations, feels good, drives good and is of good quality, i'm gonna buy/drive it, no matter what they produce apart of my choice.
Be sure i won't buy it and as you already know i speak for myself here, not for those thousands. I'm their customer and it's my right to react on their future products.
Absolutely. But that's what i was expecting after E39 and not PAS.
I very well know what steps you have to take to become even better and more competitive. I also know they've been making some serious money and they want to expand and to gain even more in all areas. Therefore further actions are needed and smart investment of capital. How smart that is, i think only BMW knows, i don't. My comments are about cars and their looks and 1st impressions i get, not about how smart they are in doing business. If they weren't smart and if their strategies weren't good, they wouldn't be where they are today, so it absolutely doesn't come to my mind to bitch about their strategy. I only know what i'd like to see and that's what i'm saying. Entering and opening new segments and daring to be the very 1st one in them takes a lot of expensive R&D and i'm sure they know what they're doing, but myself and many BMW owners/lovers/enthusiasts that i know... I don't think that PAS is what were expecting. Simple as that.
I'm not a business man in that branch so i don't wanna be smart ass and say i know. With all those crazy laws and EU restrictions and stuff, it's very hard to know what to do to gain sales, profit and other stuff. BMW is adjusting to almost every market in the world and they're doing great at the moment and that's what makes them so great.
Will that continue in the future with cars like PAS coming... I don't know... I hope for them.
But you ain't see me driving that PAS, that's for sure.
Wrong; as long as their car suits my character and my style, meets all my wishes and expectations, feels good, drives good and is of good quality, i'm gonna buy/drive it, no matter what they produce apart of my choice.
Be sure i won't buy it and as you already know i speak for myself here, not for those thousands. I'm their customer and it's my right to react on their future products.
Absolutely. But that's what i was expecting after E39 and not PAS.
I'm sick & tired of internet "experts" who bitch all over the place. BMW are about business - and you're a businessman as well, Saša - so you should know in business you have to be innovative & gain advantages over competitors to be successful. And since core markets are saturated, BMW are entering & opening niche markets. They are not experimenting - such decisions are based on analyses, researches, financial calculations etc. Excuse me, but I trust BMW officials - they have all the arguments why eg. PAS, X6 & X1 are important for BMW, and why some performance car is not. Especially now when EU is trying to de facto ban performance cars due excessive gas emissions!
I very well know what steps you have to take to become even better and more competitive. I also know they've been making some serious money and they want to expand and to gain even more in all areas. Therefore further actions are needed and smart investment of capital. How smart that is, i think only BMW knows, i don't. My comments are about cars and their looks and 1st impressions i get, not about how smart they are in doing business. If they weren't smart and if their strategies weren't good, they wouldn't be where they are today, so it absolutely doesn't come to my mind to bitch about their strategy. I only know what i'd like to see and that's what i'm saying. Entering and opening new segments and daring to be the very 1st one in them takes a lot of expensive R&D and i'm sure they know what they're doing, but myself and many BMW owners/lovers/enthusiasts that i know... I don't think that PAS is what were expecting. Simple as that.
I'm not a business man in that branch so i don't wanna be smart ass and say i know. With all those crazy laws and EU restrictions and stuff, it's very hard to know what to do to gain sales, profit and other stuff. BMW is adjusting to almost every market in the world and they're doing great at the moment and that's what makes them so great.
Will that continue in the future with cars like PAS coming... I don't know... I hope for them.
But you ain't see me driving that PAS, that's for sure.
SCOTT27
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
I understand the need to have a brand image and something to sustain and propell that image a status symbol or a headline grabbing supercar.
The reason why BMW are not interested in this route apart from sustaining it's future and independence. Is that the BMW image is so strong the world over there is no need to create a a status when every product does the talking and in some cases practically dominates their respective segment .
I understand the need for Audi and it's R8 to further it's ambitions and give greater attention to the Audi brand . Granted the R8 is an exciting car with a beautiful design possibly the most attractive design the company offers today as well as the TT.
BMW do not need such a car yet as they want to further show their flexibility in cutting edge cars such as the original X3 to latest upcoming models The X6 , RFK or PAS and the car that will become the flagship of BMW - The connection to Rolls-Royce - premium and emphasis on performance . The production CS. This is where now adays you grab headlines These cars will be interesting and highly individual with every BMW core value included even if it is the PAS.
If BMW introduced it's "Efficient Dynamics" line in one corner and a full on supercar in the other - The question will be why show your emphasis on efficiency when this completely destroys your ideals.
The M brand is strong enough as each car has it's own agenda and is respected for this. where as a Supercar would be contradictive to a top end performance coupe such as a BMW M6 Why build this and another competitor in it's segment?
As I have covered before that these cars have a Warholian quality "famous for 15 minutes" As we have seen before The Audi R8 will find it's time when the Mercedes SLC comes along and then with news in The German industry circles that Ferrari are developing an entry level competitor for their brand well it is indeed a supercar vicious circle.
I understand the need to have a brand image and something to sustain and propell that image a status symbol or a headline grabbing supercar.
The reason why BMW are not interested in this route apart from sustaining it's future and independence. Is that the BMW image is so strong the world over there is no need to create a a status when every product does the talking and in some cases practically dominates their respective segment .
I understand the need for Audi and it's R8 to further it's ambitions and give greater attention to the Audi brand . Granted the R8 is an exciting car with a beautiful design possibly the most attractive design the company offers today as well as the TT.
BMW do not need such a car yet as they want to further show their flexibility in cutting edge cars such as the original X3 to latest upcoming models The X6 , RFK or PAS and the car that will become the flagship of BMW - The connection to Rolls-Royce - premium and emphasis on performance . The production CS. This is where now adays you grab headlines These cars will be interesting and highly individual with every BMW core value included even if it is the PAS.
If BMW introduced it's "Efficient Dynamics" line in one corner and a full on supercar in the other - The question will be why show your emphasis on efficiency when this completely destroys your ideals.
The M brand is strong enough as each car has it's own agenda and is respected for this. where as a Supercar would be contradictive to a top end performance coupe such as a BMW M6 Why build this and another competitor in it's segment?
As I have covered before that these cars have a Warholian quality "famous for 15 minutes" As we have seen before The Audi R8 will find it's time when the Mercedes SLC comes along and then with news in The German industry circles that Ferrari are developing an entry level competitor for their brand well it is indeed a supercar vicious circle.
GrimReaper
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Ok, I'm purely speculating here and have absolutely no market research or fact behind this.
My look on the entire "BMW not wanting a supercar because it doesn't require to achieve higher brand image" is not entirely true.
Sure it must be one of the reasons but its not the main one for sure. Every car company can support a supercar and the way I look at it is, if you build a supercar, then you will get in atleast 50% of your buyers from other different brand loyalties and this loyalty would trickle down to their smaller model ranges.
BMW don't require the trickle down but increased sales are never bad are they. After all, (as many people rightly pointed out in this thread) BMW is more for the shareholders first and then to the loyalists.
They have the know how, the backup monetary resources and the brand following who would easily pickup a BMW supercar rather than a competing Porsche or Ferrari etc. in the same segment (slightly lower).
Now, I know that BMW probably won't make one and I'm not really concerned but I just wanted to make a point that I don't buy that BMW isn't just concerned at all with the supercar segment.
Ok, I'm purely speculating here and have absolutely no market research or fact behind this.
My look on the entire "BMW not wanting a supercar because it doesn't require to achieve higher brand image" is not entirely true.
Sure it must be one of the reasons but its not the main one for sure. Every car company can support a supercar and the way I look at it is, if you build a supercar, then you will get in atleast 50% of your buyers from other different brand loyalties and this loyalty would trickle down to their smaller model ranges.
BMW don't require the trickle down but increased sales are never bad are they. After all, (as many people rightly pointed out in this thread) BMW is more for the shareholders first and then to the loyalists.
They have the know how, the backup monetary resources and the brand following who would easily pickup a BMW supercar rather than a competing Porsche or Ferrari etc. in the same segment (slightly lower).
Now, I know that BMW probably won't make one and I'm not really concerned but I just wanted to make a point that I don't buy that BMW isn't just concerned at all with the supercar segment.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Supercar ...
What is the point making a car for max 3,000 customers - since supercars usually are limited editions?
R&D for such a car is beyond expensive - since a company has to finance a complete car research & development (with finest materials & tech)- all that for 2,000 examples max. No to mention human resources - all the people working on the project: from designers, managers, engineers, marketers, support stuff etc. Not to mention the production - developing pressing tools for a ridiculously small edition of cars. And since there is no automated production line for such a car the car is actually hand made assembled.
A totally irrational waste of resources.
To satisfy some collectors mainly - mind that usually not the true driving enthusiasts buy such cars but often the buyers are some tycoons, sheiks etc - the collectors. There is no doubt the car would be sold out instantly. But same can be said for other supercars as well - since they are collector items.
It's like producing an insanely expensive die cast model in 1:1 scale.
There is absolutely no economic reason for a supercar whatsoever. Expect you are a supercar carmaker like eg. Ferrari, Lambo, even Porsche in some twisted way.
Performance serial cars ...
Such cars are much cheaper to make, and had much greater halo effect on regular models than supercar would have (eg. M3 have much more in common with 318d than possible BMW supercar). Btw, do you buy a Ford because of Ford GT, or Corolla due the Supra, or Maxima due GT-R? I guess not. Or even A-class due the SLR. Not at all.
BMW offer the M variants of regular models - M3 (coupe, CSL coupe, cabrio - sedan also on the way), Z4 M (roadster & coupe), M5 (sedan & touring), M6 (coupe & cabrio). Performance model in almost every segment.
Whats wrong with M6 (Vmax = 305km/h!)? Not enough performance car?
Also the 135i is not a sissy with 306HP under the hood!
4 coupes in model line (1er, 3er, 6er, Z4 Coupe), and two more coming (x6 an 8er).
Not enough sporty cars?
BMW will add some new M variants, and possibly some new limited edition CS / CSL variants as well.
And Z8 (and its M coupe alter ego: the M10) are also coming after 2012.
Again ... A supercar is a no go for BMW. Too expensive. Too little gains for too much efforts. Input not justified by output. Period. It doesn't fit BMW in philosophy right now. One one hand they promote EffecientDynamics, and imagine an introduction of 600HP supercar with insane gas emissions & fule consumption. A complete travesty.
Yes, now someone will recall the M1 - the M1 was developed as a racing car: to participate in motorsport racing. The car was developed in cooperation with Lamborghini - resulting in the only BMW mid-engined model ever. BMW have no know-how by themselves to develop such a car. Approx only 450 cars were made - only due a reason it was able to compete in some racing series, where only serial cars were allowed to participate.
Supercar in Audi & Lexus case can be sort of halo effect car, or image booster. But can hardly make a brand sporty performance oriented. One supercar is not enough. One super car doesn't make a brand sporty performance oriented (think GT-R, Supra, GT etc). If a brand wants to be a sporty performance brand, the whole model line has to be in compliance with the sporty performance philosophy - not only the supercar.
Now back on topic ...
Supercar ...
What is the point making a car for max 3,000 customers - since supercars usually are limited editions?
R&D for such a car is beyond expensive - since a company has to finance a complete car research & development (with finest materials & tech)- all that for 2,000 examples max. No to mention human resources - all the people working on the project: from designers, managers, engineers, marketers, support stuff etc. Not to mention the production - developing pressing tools for a ridiculously small edition of cars. And since there is no automated production line for such a car the car is actually hand made assembled.
A totally irrational waste of resources.
To satisfy some collectors mainly - mind that usually not the true driving enthusiasts buy such cars but often the buyers are some tycoons, sheiks etc - the collectors. There is no doubt the car would be sold out instantly. But same can be said for other supercars as well - since they are collector items.
It's like producing an insanely expensive die cast model in 1:1 scale.
There is absolutely no economic reason for a supercar whatsoever. Expect you are a supercar carmaker like eg. Ferrari, Lambo, even Porsche in some twisted way.
Performance serial cars ...
Such cars are much cheaper to make, and had much greater halo effect on regular models than supercar would have (eg. M3 have much more in common with 318d than possible BMW supercar). Btw, do you buy a Ford because of Ford GT, or Corolla due the Supra, or Maxima due GT-R? I guess not. Or even A-class due the SLR. Not at all.
BMW offer the M variants of regular models - M3 (coupe, CSL coupe, cabrio - sedan also on the way), Z4 M (roadster & coupe), M5 (sedan & touring), M6 (coupe & cabrio). Performance model in almost every segment.
Whats wrong with M6 (Vmax = 305km/h!)? Not enough performance car?
Also the 135i is not a sissy with 306HP under the hood!
4 coupes in model line (1er, 3er, 6er, Z4 Coupe), and two more coming (x6 an 8er).
Not enough sporty cars?
BMW will add some new M variants, and possibly some new limited edition CS / CSL variants as well.
And Z8 (and its M coupe alter ego: the M10) are also coming after 2012.
Again ... A supercar is a no go for BMW. Too expensive. Too little gains for too much efforts. Input not justified by output. Period. It doesn't fit BMW in philosophy right now. One one hand they promote EffecientDynamics, and imagine an introduction of 600HP supercar with insane gas emissions & fule consumption. A complete travesty.
Yes, now someone will recall the M1 - the M1 was developed as a racing car: to participate in motorsport racing. The car was developed in cooperation with Lamborghini - resulting in the only BMW mid-engined model ever. BMW have no know-how by themselves to develop such a car. Approx only 450 cars were made - only due a reason it was able to compete in some racing series, where only serial cars were allowed to participate.
Supercar in Audi & Lexus case can be sort of halo effect car, or image booster. But can hardly make a brand sporty performance oriented. One supercar is not enough. One super car doesn't make a brand sporty performance oriented (think GT-R, Supra, GT etc). If a brand wants to be a sporty performance brand, the whole model line has to be in compliance with the sporty performance philosophy - not only the supercar.
Now back on topic ...
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- Name
- Marcus
Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
I give you credit for devotion and loyalty, you'll support any and everything BMW says no matter what. I get all the business jive and what not, but I think what some hardcore BMW enthusiasts want is a sports car in that mix also. With al this expansion and what not surely a sports car of some sort could be at least penciled into all this. All this gas and emissions is sorta bs because more suvs and larger cars like an 8 series aren't going to help the enviroment either. BMW is out to make money and they're going to make their type of cars (i.e. performance gas swilling relative to say Honda or Toyota) more environmentally friendly, which is what every other simlar brand is trying to do. If BMW can't build a sports car along with all the proposed "green" models then they aren't as diverse as some here make them out to be.
M
Saša, now you are BSing. Sorry, bro.
You sound like: "I decline to buy a 5er series because BMW are not offering 600HP M6 CSL instead of X1 & PAS."
If you do not like PAS - it's an easy task for you: do not buy it. Very simple. But some (many!!!) people will buy it. Thousands people per year.
And I guess BMW satisfied your needs quite well since you drive 535d, and very much interested in X5 & X6.
I'm sick & tired of internet "experts" who bitch all over the place. BMW are about business - and you're a businessman as well, Saša - so you should know in business you have to be innovative & gain advantages over competitors to be successful. And since core markets are saturated, BMW are entering & opening niche markets. They are not experimenting - such decisions are based on analyses, researches, financial calculations etc. Excuse me, but I trust BMW officials - they have all the arguments why eg. PAS, X6 & X1 are important for BMW, and why some performance car is not. Especially now when EU is trying to de facto ban performance cars due excessive gas emissions!
Please, all the BMW-future-strategy doubters, tell me your version of a strategy. What new product should BMW introduce to gain sales, revenues & profits + cutting costs at the same time, in your opinion.
I'm waiting for you answers.
I give you credit for devotion and loyalty, you'll support any and everything BMW says no matter what. I get all the business jive and what not, but I think what some hardcore BMW enthusiasts want is a sports car in that mix also. With al this expansion and what not surely a sports car of some sort could be at least penciled into all this. All this gas and emissions is sorta bs because more suvs and larger cars like an 8 series aren't going to help the enviroment either. BMW is out to make money and they're going to make their type of cars (i.e. performance gas swilling relative to say Honda or Toyota) more environmentally friendly, which is what every other simlar brand is trying to do. If BMW can't build a sports car along with all the proposed "green" models then they aren't as diverse as some here make them out to be.
M
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- Name
- Marcus
Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
A million and one excuses ENI. Everyone else does it and I don't seem them suffering for it. My goodness even Lexus is going to have something that will likely rip any BMW made on a track. For the sake of BMW's enthusiast side all this rallying against a supercar is just plain ridiculous for a company as healthy as BMW. If all their plans pan out here, will there then be enough money and what not to do something "just because" to make a statment? I think so.
I do agree that one car doesn't make a brand sporty which is all the more reason why if brands like Nissan, Toyota, Ford etc. can produce a supercar then surely BMW should have one since BMW's entire lineup is sporty. I don't see how you could possibly think a supercar wouldn't produce a halo effect for BMW, it does for everyone else.
M
Supercar ...
What is the point making a car for max 3,000 customers - since supercars usually are limited editions?
R&D for such a car is beyond expensive - since a company has to finance a complete car research & development (with finest materials & tech)- all that for 2,000 examples max. No to mention human resources - all the people working on the project: from designers, managers, engineers, marketers, support stuff etc. Not to mention the production - developing pressing tools for a ridiculously small edition of cars. And since there is no automated production line for such a car the car is actually hand made assembled.
A totally irrational waste of resources.
To satisfy some collectors mainly - mind that usually not the true driving enthusiasts buy such cars but often the buyers are some tycoons, sheiks etc - the collectors. There is no doubt the car would be sold out instantly. But same can be said for other supercars as well - since they are collector items.
It's like producing an insanely expensive die cast model in 1:1 scale.
There is absolutely no economic reason for a supercar whatsoever. Expect you are a supercar carmaker like eg. Ferrari, Lambo, even Porsche in some twisted way.
Performance serial cars ...
Such cars are much cheaper to make, and had much greater halo effect on regular models than supercar would have (eg. M3 have much more in common with 318d than possible BMW supercar). Btw, do you buy a Ford because of Ford GT, or Corolla due the Supra, or Maxima due GT-R? I guess not. Or even A-class due the SLR. Not at all.
BMW offer the M variants of regular models - M3 (coupe, CSL coupe, cabrio - sedan also on the way), Z4 M (roadster & coupe), M5 (sedan & touring), M6 (coupe & cabrio). Performance model in almost every segment.
Whats wrong with M6 (Vmax = 305km/h!)? Not enough performance car?
Also the 135i is not a sissy with 306HP under the hood!
4 coupes in model line (1er, 3er, 6er, Z4 Coupe), and two more coming (x6 an 8er).
Not enough sporty cars?
BMW will add some new M variants, and possibly some new limited edition CS / CSL variants as well.
And Z8 (and its M coupe alter ego: the M10) are also coming after 2012.
Again ... A supercar is a no go for BMW. Too expensive. Too little gains for too much efforts. Input not justified by output. Period. It doesn't fit BMW in philosophy right now. One one hand they promote EffecientDynamics, and imagine an introduction of 600HP supercar with insane gas emissions & fule consumption. A complete travesty.
Yes, now someone will recall the M1 - the M1 was developed as a racing car: to participate in motorsport racing. The car was developed in cooperation with Lamborghini - resulting in the only BMW mid-engined model ever. BMW have no know-how by themselves to develop such a car. Approx only 450 cars were made - only due a reason it was able to compete in some racing series, where only serial cars were allowed to participate.
Supercar in Audi & Lexus case can be sort of halo effect car, or image booster. But can hardly make a brand sporty performance oriented. One supercar is not enough. One super car doesn't make a brand sporty performance oriented (think GT-R, Supra, GT etc). If a brand wants to be a sporty performance brand, the whole model line has to be in compliance with the sporty performance philosophy - not only the supercar.
Now back on topic ...
A million and one excuses ENI. Everyone else does it and I don't seem them suffering for it. My goodness even Lexus is going to have something that will likely rip any BMW made on a track. For the sake of BMW's enthusiast side all this rallying against a supercar is just plain ridiculous for a company as healthy as BMW. If all their plans pan out here, will there then be enough money and what not to do something "just because" to make a statment? I think so.
I do agree that one car doesn't make a brand sporty which is all the more reason why if brands like Nissan, Toyota, Ford etc. can produce a supercar then surely BMW should have one since BMW's entire lineup is sporty. I don't see how you could possibly think a supercar wouldn't produce a halo effect for BMW, it does for everyone else.
M
EnI
Piston Pioneer
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Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Here I disagree.
Halo effect from supercar is kind a myth.
Many analyses showed such a car can only influence sales of performance coupes, while other segments are completely unaffected.
Mind that not many customers are aware such supercar even exists - since it's usually not even displayed in every showroom.
Like I said: none customer decides to buy an eg. compact hatch or sedan due the brand's supercar existence.
Supercar is mainly an image booster for the brand. In short term. Kind a extra edition to other image boosting actions - supercar alone is not enough. Yet the sales particularly are not as affected as someone would thought.
Supercar is a wet dream. And wet dreams are typical for adolescents, or emotionally / sexually handicapped subjects.
IMO BMW AG is beyond that. Thanks God.
Here I disagree.
Halo effect from supercar is kind a myth.
Many analyses showed such a car can only influence sales of performance coupes, while other segments are completely unaffected.
Mind that not many customers are aware such supercar even exists - since it's usually not even displayed in every showroom.
Like I said: none customer decides to buy an eg. compact hatch or sedan due the brand's supercar existence.
Supercar is mainly an image booster for the brand. In short term. Kind a extra edition to other image boosting actions - supercar alone is not enough. Yet the sales particularly are not as affected as someone would thought.
Supercar is a wet dream. And wet dreams are typical for adolescents, or emotionally / sexually handicapped subjects.
IMO BMW AG is beyond that. Thanks God.
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- Marcus
Re: BMW AG future plans (till 2020) officially revealed!!!
Ok I'm gonna get this off my chest. The real issue I have here is not whether or not BMW can build or thinks a supercar fits their imagine, it is with this implication that a supercar is somehow beneath BMW or any true BMW enthusiast. That is bs. Nothing could be more snobbish or insulting IMO. I agree, no one or at least very few people (you have no way of knowing for sure unless you ask every single buyer why they bought into a brand) will buy a 1-Series or 535i because of a 250K BMW supercar, I got that.
However, this about who supercars appeal to I can do without. This type of thinking is why many people consider BMW drivers/owners/fans to be some things I can't mention here. It is elitist behavior seriously run amok.
In my case I'd simply like to see what the almighty BMW can do with a directive to build a world-beating sports/supercar. I couldn't care one bit about BMW's image or whether or not it is ultimately enhanced, which by the way it would be.
I simply don't see how an enthusiast and especially a BMW enthusiast could be so against BMW doing something other than more suvs/crossovers/coupe-sedan thingys.
M
Here I disagree.
Halo effect from supercar is kind a myth.
Many analyses showed such a car can only influence sales of performance coupes, while other segments are completely unaffected.
Mind that not many customers are aware such supercar even exists - since it's usually not even displayed in every showroom.
Like I said: none customer decides to buy an eg. compact hatch or sedan due the brand's supercar existence.
Supercar is mainly an image booster for the brand. In short term. Kind a extra edition to other image boosting actions - supercar alone is not enough. Yet the sales particularly are not as affected as someone would thought.
Supercar is a wet dream. And wet dreams are typical for adolescents, or emotionally / sexually handicapped subjects.
IMO BMW AG is beyond that. Thanks God.
Ok I'm gonna get this off my chest. The real issue I have here is not whether or not BMW can build or thinks a supercar fits their imagine, it is with this implication that a supercar is somehow beneath BMW or any true BMW enthusiast. That is bs. Nothing could be more snobbish or insulting IMO. I agree, no one or at least very few people (you have no way of knowing for sure unless you ask every single buyer why they bought into a brand) will buy a 1-Series or 535i because of a 250K BMW supercar, I got that.
However, this about who supercars appeal to I can do without. This type of thinking is why many people consider BMW drivers/owners/fans to be some things I can't mention here. It is elitist behavior seriously run amok.
In my case I'd simply like to see what the almighty BMW can do with a directive to build a world-beating sports/supercar. I couldn't care one bit about BMW's image or whether or not it is ultimately enhanced, which by the way it would be.
I simply don't see how an enthusiast and especially a BMW enthusiast could be so against BMW doing something other than more suvs/crossovers/coupe-sedan thingys.
M
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BMW
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational
manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced
from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
