86 [Official] Toyota GT 86

[Soup]

 

[Levi68]

No way the BRZ costs 5K more for being exactly the same car in low spec minus the HIDs.

 

[Guibo]

Chris Harris's video review.

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Got the impression he seems to like it...


More comments via Pistonheads:

There was a lovely moment when I asked Tetsuya Tada, Chief engineer on the GT 86, what the car's Nurburgring lap-time was, and he just smirked. Because I was already laughing myself. I suggested 11 minutes. He said he didn't know and didn't care.

Be in no doubt that whether you like the styling or not, the GT 86 marks an important shift in ethos for the rapid horseless carriage. If, in five years time, other sectors of the enthusiast market are no longer allowing themselves to be judged in terms of ever-greater performance, and have chosen more subjective criteria, then we will owe the GT 86 a great deal.

PH has already published not one but two first drives on the car, because we wanted to get one live promptly. Time with the car was tight, and there was nothing on the public road, but you can still glean a lot from these brief encounters.

We've heaped praise on so much of the car it's probably useful to discuss the areas that could prove problematic in the showroom.
Styling and badge-issues are best left to the individual tastes, but it would be hard to suggest that an Audi TT or Peugeot RCZ won't hold greater appeal to the fashinistas, both outside and in.


Is it fast enough? I think so. If you buy into the 86 ethos, you don't much care if a Focus RS scoots away from the lights. Pulling out of second gear turns, on a dry circuit, the car had enough power and torque to overcome the mechanical grip of those 215 section tyres. That tells me all I need to know.

Is the £25,000 price reasonable? Absolutely.

Toyota or Subaru? If you'd asked me that an hour before driving the GT 86, I'd have trenchantly answered 'Scooby' for all the obvious, 555-derived, reasons. Once I was looking out of the side window and revving the Bristols off the thing, the thought didn't even enter my mind. In fact, I'm enjoying the AE 86 heritage link more and more, and liked the GT 86's supple suspension. I'm hearing that the Subaru might be a touch firmer, but can't pass judgment until that information is confirmed and we get to drive it.

Given that I suspect you will be exposed to heaps more sideways-driven GT 86 footage, one last note on the car's behaviour when driven in true Hachi Roku manner. The GT 86 creates slip-angle through power, not torque. Clever engineers will find fault with that statement but, from behind the wheel, you have to use all the engine revs to make it jiggle about. With the engine buzzing above 5,500rpm, and the Torsen differential forcing power to both rear wheels, the car has a quite a narrow window of stability. Too much throttle and you quickly need to use all the lock to correct the slide, too little and the car will straighten itself, and deliver those unprepared a sharp little tank slapper.

This isn't an M3. It asks much more of the driver to execute gratuitous slides. You need to unsettle the car more subtly, use momentum to help create yaw, then pounce on the opportunity, and extract the most from it by throwing just the right amount of gas at the suggestion of a slide, nurture it and ride it out. It's quite tricky to start with, but once you find a rhythm, it's a blast. Pointless info, I know, but then this isn't What Car?

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25161

 

[Levi68]

EPIC!

This is the review I have been waiting for. Chris Harris is IMO the best automotive journalist.

All respect to Toyota for having build the two best sportscars of this decade: the LFA and the GT86.


Sorry to bring this up, but both of these cars should have been BMW's, however they are not, they are Toyotas.

 

[Cashmere]

Seems like Chris forgot attach the external mic, it was difficult to make out some of what he was saying. Doesn't really sound like a boxer engine, but it sounds great for a 4 banger. Looking forward to all the special versions.

 

[330CIZHP]

Seems like Chris forgot attach the external mic, it was difficult to make out some of what he was saying. Doesn't really sound like a boxer engine, but it sounds great for a 4 banger. Looking forward to all the special versions.

I was quite confused since Chris Harris said the only disappointment in the car was the noise. It sounded a bit drony, but from video stand point still it seemed quite sporty.

 

[Levi68]

I can understand he wasn't that pleased by the sound if to compare it to any race 4 cylinder engine or the sounds of all the best supercars he has driven, Porsche 911 GT3 4.0, Ferrari 458 Italia, Lexus LFA, Ferrari 599 GTO to name only these.

 

[Levi68]

Off-Topic

Drifting champ and Scion spokesdriver Ken Gushi narrowly missed a deer while shooting a spot for the Scion FR-S, and the helicopter camera crew caught the entire ordeal in glorious high-def.

Gushi and crew were filming at Mt. Diablo State Park in Northern California when the close encounter took place, and by close, we're not talking feet, we're talking inches.

Always the marketing pro, Gushi went on to commend the Scion's steering and brakes for helping avoid disaster. Check out the video and Gushi's response after the jump.

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Bragging rights for good brakes in real situation?

 

[Guibo]

Not a test drive, but still high praise from a rather unexpected source.

"Opposite Lock: Why the E30′s True Successor is a Toyota

The iconic BMW E30 has now been debated, glorified, worshiped and written about ad nauseum. If you haven’t owned an E30, and you’ve never had the chance to drive one, all of this fuss over a 30 year old car must be driving you properly nuts. What could possibly be so special about a car released the same year as Michael Jackson’s Thriller album?

Rather a lot, actually. The E30 ascended to cult-classic status because its parts coalesced into one harmonious whole. The E30 was a driving instrument that sought to convey every bit of sensory information possible from the road surface to your brain. Strapping into the E30 was like plugging an HDMI cable into your head – the other end gathering data from the contact patches. As you made progress down the road, this car remained raw and honest. If you only let it, it would please you until you ran out of fuel, tires, or brakes. To put it simply, the E30 delivered purity unmatched by modern cars.

Fast forward to the current millennium and you will find a car-scape mostly devoid of precision driving instruments. Burdened with comfort, technology and safety appendages, modern cars have grown in weight. Through the years they’ve also gown layers, incrementally distancing you, the driver, from the sensory experience. The latest layer to surface between driver and road has risen from the necessity of increased efficiency. Electronic power steering replaces the hydraulic pump that used to reduce the muscle needed in wheeling your steed. Somehow, in the application of this technology, the subtleties wiggling up through the steering shaft have been erased – or at least, reduced. Even the Porsche 911 – fabled for its telepathic steering feel – has fallen prey to this technology, though reviews thus far suggest the damage is limited.

At the racetrack or on a snaking road, only a car free of sensory callus can carry you to driving nirvana. The magical pixie dust of the E30 is no magic at all – it’s a mechanical simplicity that connects you to the driving experience. In the quintessential linguistic contradiction: less is more.

Let’s distill the E30 down to its fundamental ingredients. The car was lightweight, the M3 tipping the scales at a scant 2,865 lbs – earlier non-M models dipping as low as 2,460 lbs. All E30s were rear-wheel drive, save for the iX one-off which pioneered the 3 series’ first AWD system. A manual gearbox was standard. Six-cylinder models and sports four-cylinder models came equipped with a limited-slip differential. While the engines on offer varied widely in power, all engines were responsive and free-revving – save for the Euro market diesels.

The above, in a nutshell, defines the essential DNA of a pure sports car: lightweight, rear-wheel drive, manual gear selection, and responsive, free-revving power delivered through a limited-slip differential. You cannot overlook any of these ingredients without undoing a helmet-full of driving fun. Add much on top of these ingredients, and you begin to distract from the purity of the car.

So then, what cars in the market place today were baked to simple perfection using the prescribed ingredients? All Lotus cars, the Mazda Miata, the Porsche Cayman, Boxster and 911 GT3 RS, all Caterham cars, the Weismann MF4-S, and a few other small-batch independent sports cars. By and large, the short list is very, very short. Recent favorites such as the Honda S2000 and Mazda RX-8 have gone the way of the cassette player, and their presence is sorely missed.

Of course, all of these cars fail to embody the essence of the iconic E30. For one reason or another, they all miss the mark in some way. The car that comes closest is arguably the Mazda Miata. It combines all essential ingredients into a handsome package, at a reasonable price point. Yet the Miata is still slightly soft relative to the E30 of its day – particularly the E30 M3, which had a telescopic focus on performance.

The others on the short list are overpriced, bordering on exotic – which the E30 was not. What we’re looking for is the simple everyday performance car – attainable, and thrilling, for all. And if our candidate is to truly match the E30, it must also have a side of practicality and everyday utility – just as the E30 mustered.

Enter the long awaited Toyota FT-86. That the name Toyota has even appeared in the acclaimed company of the aforementioned sports cars is nearly cause for alarm or moderate stomach upset. Defibrillator cast aside, desperate chest-thumping abandoned – we had all gone home, the collective body of driving enthusiasts considering the Japanese brand clinically dead.

A blip occurred on the EKG over 5 years ago when rumor began to spread of a pure sports car surfacing from the brand. As much as it pained sports drivers to glance their eyes on Toyota dealer lots – lest their eyes set hold of the world’s most homely and boring automotive lineup – memories of happier times could still be called to mind. Iconic cars such as the Sports 800, 2000GT, Corolla GT-S and Supra spring to mind – dating back to the late 1960′s. The Corolla GT-S, internally code-named the AE86, finds a special resting place in many enthusiasts’ hearts, as this car captured much the same appeal as the E30. It was a simple, honest performance car that combined all essential ingredients into an affordable package, while retaining everyday usability and practicality. It was, to some extent, a Japanese E30.

Now, in January of 2012, we can add the Toyota FT-86 to the list of pure, uncompromising sports cars. The mandate of this car is in parallel with that of the original E30, and this Toyota’s mechanical similarities may surprise you. Since we’re all driving enthusiasts at heart, let’s use the E30 M3 as a reference point. The M3 weighed in at 2,865 lbs, the FT-86 weighs an impressive 2,700 lbs (final figures are not out yet, but some expect it to weigh as little as 2,600 lbs!). The M3 was powered by a naturally aspirated 2.3 liter inline-4 cylinder that produced 192 hp at 6,750 rpm and 176 lb-ft of torque at 4,750 rpm, en route to a 7,300 rpm rev limit. The FT-86 is powered by a naturally aspirated 2.0 liter boxer-4 cylinder that produces 200 hp at 7,000 rpm, 151 lb-ft of torque at 6,600 rpm, eventually bouncing off the limiter at 7,400 rpm. The M3 was rear-wheel drive with a limited-slip differential standard, the FT-86 follows in kind. The M3 transfered power through a 5-speed manual transmission, the FT-86 offers a 6-speed manual. The M3, along with all other E30s, offered surprising practicality with a sizable trunk and 2+2 seating configuration. The FT-86 features a 2+2 layout with a sizable trunk and fold-down rear seats expanding total storage volume.

What of the alleged successors within the BMW brand? Some – not least the marketing department – will point to the 1 series as heir to the E30 thrown and go on to insist that the 1 series M Coupe is the true successor to the E30 M3. I’ve spent a healthy amount of time behind the wheel of the understeering 1 series, and it lacks two of the core ingredients necessary to make it a worthy successor. The base 128i weighs 3,208 lbs, putting it a stout 200 lbs over the pivotal 3,000 lb tipping point that tends to exemplify a light weight sports car, and all other cars mentioned fall below this weight. The 1 series fails to include another ingredient: a limited-slip differential. What of the 1 series M Coupe? The car goes further astray as mechanical muscle adds considerable weight, the 1M registering 3,296 lbs on the scales. 431 lbs is a monumental amount of weight to be added to a sports car, and it permanently and irreversibly alters both the driving experience and the spirit of the car. I’ve driven the 1M in haste and while it delivers in all other departments, there is a spiritual element missing. In sports car rhetoric, that spiritual element is called, “lightness.” Further, it’s not a sports car for everyone, as hardly anyone can purchase it.

If you long for the visceral appeal of a BMW E30, the best solution may be to go out and buy a classic E30. If you’re bent on the sublime M version, then you’ll have to gather up a few more dollars, because current appreciation of the car has a low-milage specimen sitting at approximately $25,000 to $30,000 USD. Coincidentally, the Toyota FT-86 is expected to launch with a base price just over $25,000 USD.

While I’m smitten by the E30 and stand in awe of its driving appeal, I’ve already been down the vintage car path. I’ve owned an E30 and loved every minute of it, but for an assortment of reasons, I’m ready to drive cars built in step with modern hair styles. Even the most hard-core among us might rationally insist on owning a car built within the last decade.

If you fall into the category of reformed vintage sports car driver, or earnest enthusiast looking for a modern E30, your options are limited – but no longer absent. As far as I see it, there is only one car that closely matches the performance of the E30 M3 while capturing the spirit of the car. BMW have reportedly played with the idea of a Z2 sports car, but as of yet, this car is set on the far off horizon – and there is tragic rumor that it may launch with front-wheel drive. It’s clear that in the year 2012, there is only one true successor to the BMW E30: the Toyota FT-86.

I’ve yet to drive the Toyota, but I’m eagerly awaiting track-time at the helm. The only complaint I’ve read thus far from recent reviews would be that the tire size is a touch to small, leaving the car needlessly searching for traction. Stock tire sizing is 215/45/17 square, so I imagine going to a 225 sticky compound all-round would solve this issue, and allow for serious track pace. If this car delivers half the fun of an E30 on track, I’ll be smitten – along with thousands of other track-addicts.

If you’ve never heard of the Toyota FT-86, it could be because it carries so many different name plates. In actuallity the car was conceptualized by Toyota, but executed by Subaru – hence the ripping boxer-4. Subaru’s version is called the BR-Z while the Asian market retains the FT-86 moniker, and North America gets the flabby Scion FR-S badging. I cringe at the thought of owning a Scion – imagine: a brand below Toyota. But you mustn’t judge a car by its badge – not when the ingredients are so pure underneath. Hail the new E30."

Opposite Lock: Why the E30's True Successor is a Toyota

 

[Human]

Toyota GT-86 and Subaru BRZ purist-spec versions released (JDM)

Toyota and Subaru are saluting driving enthusiasts by offering a stripped down purist version of the GT-86/BRZ in Japan. When we say "purist," we are referring to the absence of features that racers would be least interested in having on their cars, therefore, lowering the price while potentially increasing performance.
Set to hit the Japanese market in March for a base price of 2,058,000 yen (~$26,490 / ~£16,750) for the BRZ and 1,990,000 yen (~$25,625 / ~£16,200) for the GT-86, the purist package, known as RA and RC, respectively, receives an interior without air-condition, stereo/speakers, cup holders, door lamps, leather wrapped steering wheel; hand brake and shift knob, aluminum pedals, decorative silver trim inside, stainless sill plates, and no trunk lamp; trim or matt.
On the outside is where most purist wannabees will draw the line, as Subaru/Toyota really shows how far they are willing to go to prove that the RA/RC package is meant for true driving enthusiasts. Toyota offers unpainted flat black front and rear bumpers (painted on BRZ), side mirror housings and door handles. Also gone are fog lamps, retractable side mirrors and rear spoiler. But for the final and ultimate deletion, Toyota takes away the fancy 17-inch alloy wheels and gives true sleeper wheels - steel 16-inchers with 205/55R tires.
For mechanicals, there's not too much taken away. Besides having no air-conditioning compressor to drag on the engine, the plastic engine cover that sits on top of the intake manifold has been deleted. Ventilated brake disks are taken away from the rear brakes while all corners measure 15-inches in diameter - a tiny bit smaller than the 16-inch front discs available on the higher R and S spec models. But the biggest change is the removal of the torsen (torque sensitive) rear differential in favor of a mechanical diff as reported earlier by Chris Harris.
Not only is the purist package lighter by 40 kg (88 lbs) but also the price tag is quite pure as well. No pricing has been announced for the U.S. yet but in the UK the base BRZ starts at £24,995 on-the-road - approximately £8,795 more than the purist in Japan, if you were to compare straight in-market values at today's exchange rate.
There's no word if the RC and RA purist trim packages will make their way overseas, but don't count on it.


Read more: Toyota GT-86 and Subaru BRZ purist-spec versions released (JDM)

 

[Levi68]

The LFA and GT86 make me want to do a Toyota propaganda against BMW. I do feel betrayed to get a Toyota instead of a BMW which has always been my favorite brand.


Back to topic: Does anybody miss the M3 E30? Don't let this happen another time and get a GT86 before they are gone!

 

[Guibo]

FR-S coverage but applicable to the Toyota/Subaru, from Motor Trend's WOT blog February 16, 2012.

Scion FR-S Has Junk in the Trunk, Meets Nissan GT-R

Here’s one thing we’d like to know about the 2013 Scion FR-S, or rather, its future owners: how many of these RWD sports coupes will seriously be hitting the track once they drop into consumer hands?

Honestly, we want to know. Scion hosted the Scion FR-S media launch at the Sodegaura Forest Raceway in Japan, and there’s no doubt in any of our minds that the long-awaited sports car is destined for greatness. The Scion FR-S (along with its Subaru BRZ sibling) is more than just a car; it should be well on track in inspiring a fresh wave of driving enthusiasts, curious to know what it’s like to hang a car near the limit. While we’re looking forward to more seat time stateside, we also wanted to check the claim that the Scion FR-S can take a full set of mounted wheels and tires and tools onboard*. And just for kicks, we brought along a Nissan GT-R that was lying around.

Two mounted wheels fit on top of the folded back seat with no problems. Will four be an issue?

Nope. Trust us, you can still drive with four wheels/tires behind you. We recommend securing the load.

The view from the back. That's an air compressor behind the toolbox, and there's still space for an ice cooler and other track day necessities.

Having an extra set of tires available is a godsend on those hot track days when greasy is on the menu, and who doesn’t bring equipment like a jack and hand tools with them to a track day? If there’s one piece of consumer advice we can hand out today, it’s that the Scion FR-S can handle four full-size wheel/tires (17-inch wheels wrapped in 215/45-17 Michelin Primacy HP rubber), a two-ton-rated jack, air compressor, and toolbox with alarming ease. We should have brought more junk.

Source: http://wot.motortrend.com/scion-fr-s-has-junk-in-the-trunk-meets-nissan-gt-r-170325.html

How it's often done with some other cars

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Jeez, haven't visited this thread in awhile, and look what I missed: a brilliant Chris Harris review. Definitely worth the wait, and yes, he has one of the best jobs in the world. Also, I'm glad how he touched on the differing priorities between the GT86/BRZ and TT & RCZ....it's really different strokes for different folks.

I'll have to catch up on the rest of the posted items on this thread when I'm not so bogged down.

I was quite confused since Chris Harris said the only disappointment in the car was the noise. It sounded a bit drony, but from video stand point still it seemed quite sporty.

It sounds good to me too. But I may have to take what he says about sound quality with a grain of salt, considering he's consistently spoiled by his GT3 RS 4.0...nothing will sound right after that

 

[330CIZHP]

Videos of Subaru BRZ/GT-86 racing car at Fuji

JONSIBAL » Blog Archive » Subaru BRZ GT300 Shakedown

 

[330CIZHP]

The Scion seems to be one hell of a cheaply priced car posted on Scion forums

Authenticity not verified yet

 

[Centurion]

Wow. That's a rock bottom price. For comparison the 3d Golf 2.5 Starts at $17,999 in the US.

 

[mini_cooper4]

What !? How the hell this car only costs $15k over there... OMG you americans got it cheap again...
Anyone knows the price in Germany ?

 

[mini_cooper4]

I know there are people interested in buying this car on this forum. I expect it to be priced at at least 25.000 euro in Europe as it's already priced 25.000paunds in the UK.
When I imported the first 7 Mazda CX-7s in BG and probably the first in EU my dealer in the US got suspended from MAZDA for 100.000$ and got a warning that he will be suspended for another 1M$ if he sells one more car for export as he was ruining the upcoming EU premier and market of the CX-7. I guess it will be the same case with SCION/Toyota as they are priced a lot cheaper over there...
I still work with some dealerships over there and I still have discount prices with shipping companies in the US. So I can import a car for you but it would be good if we import at least two cars.
//PM me if interested//

 

[Levi68]

If true I'd really really look in importing this car directly build it into a track car. I am drving to Geneva and am going to see what EU pricing info I can get there.
I went too my nearest Toyota dealer he said to me to expect it about 35.000 €. He has no clue about what he is talking.



However I do not believe the pricing is true. These numbers are only seen in the soource. I think it is just a the programmer that put in such a number too easily change it later when the pricing is officially released. 25,840 $.

<!-- <div class="model-price-block">
<p>
<span>$15,840</span>
<span class="small-copy">manual msrp<span class="asterisks">*</span></span>
</p>
<p>
<span>$16,640</span>
<span class="small-copy automatic-copy">automatic msrp<span class="asterisks">*</span></span>
</p>
</div> -->

<!-- <p>estimated mpg: 27 city / 33 highway MPG est**</p> -->

 

[330CIZHP]

My apologies. I should have validated first. I checked the Scion US website and there is no pricing it. Definitely, looks like this pricing was a hoax and was photoshopped.