86 [Official] Toyota GT 86
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The Toyota 86 and the Subaru BRZ are 2+2 sports cars jointly developed by Toyota and Subaru, manufactured at Subaru's Gunma assembly plant. For the first-generation model, Toyota marketed the sports car as the 86 in Asia, Australia, North America (from August 2016), South Africa, and South America; as the Toyota GT86 in Europe; as the 86 and GT86 in New Zealand; as the Toyota FT86 in Brunei, Nicaragua and Jamaica and as the Scion FR-S (2012–2016) in the United States and Canada.
hoffmeister_fan
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I've only seen it in passing once I was driven by the Lexus dealer in Santa Monica at night last summer. Funny thing was that I wasn't really expecting or thinking about the LFA, but mid-conversation with a buddy of mine, I stopped talking, and the LFA just honed in on my attention like a laser beam. I like the Japanese styling of the LFA, it's different from what's out there.
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^ I really like your car wishlist hoffmeister_fan. I see all sportcars have NA engines in all forms: H4, H6, V10, 12. M5 F10 is the est comfort/sport car out there with imense torque for daily drive. Till now porbably the most adavanced production turbo engine and also the best sounding (after F40), even if BMW tricked, but well, ther is no other way whe you have snails on the engine 
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I'm delighted with both the Toyota and Subaru designs and more so with the outcome of the collaboration. What's not to like?
Here is the return of the people's sports car; it's pretty light at 1180 kg, it's not only perfectly balanced left to right but also has a lovely 53:47 front to rear weight distribution. It's got one of the lowest centers of gravity this side of a Carrera GT with a Boxer engine featuring both direct and indirect fuel injection. It's naturally aspirated so throttle response will be keen too - how refreshing in this day and age. Of course, it's RWD.
So here's a car with 150 kW and 205 Nm that weighs less than your average hot hatch but has all of the above mentioned attributes. It's an enthusiast's delight - made even more relevant in these times by its affordability, compact size and driver appeal. Quite simply, there's nothing like it out there at the moment.
Sure, a Scirocco R will leave it trailing in its wake in the traffic light drag race but that's not what people ought to buy this car for. This thing is a party on wheels. Check out this footage to dispel any doubts as to the car's dynamic ability.
[YouTube]0Jr-iYAtpWM[/YouTube]
Here is the return of the people's sports car; it's pretty light at 1180 kg, it's not only perfectly balanced left to right but also has a lovely 53:47 front to rear weight distribution. It's got one of the lowest centers of gravity this side of a Carrera GT with a Boxer engine featuring both direct and indirect fuel injection. It's naturally aspirated so throttle response will be keen too - how refreshing in this day and age. Of course, it's RWD.
So here's a car with 150 kW and 205 Nm that weighs less than your average hot hatch but has all of the above mentioned attributes. It's an enthusiast's delight - made even more relevant in these times by its affordability, compact size and driver appeal. Quite simply, there's nothing like it out there at the moment.
Sure, a Scirocco R will leave it trailing in its wake in the traffic light drag race but that's not what people ought to buy this car for. This thing is a party on wheels. Check out this footage to dispel any doubts as to the car's dynamic ability.
[YouTube]0Jr-iYAtpWM[/YouTube]
The FWD TT is even lighter at about 2800lbs and has the more "enjoyable" handling compared to the quattro models. I wouldn't look to much into weight distributions, I suppose RenaultSport are doing performance totally wrong with the Megane Trophy which has a 65/35 dist.
I see this car as somewhat in the vein of previous gen MX-5's, back to basics not relying on power and a car which you can take to ~80% of it's ability safely and enjoyably on the road. It's probably not the car for the person who is after a cruiser as I'd say it's not really a motorway muncher.
However with this back to basic's nature and less everyday drive-ability than say a GTI with it's extra torque, I feel the price will have to represent this and it should undercut it in price.
On thing that may hurt it's market though is it's emissions, in my country (judging by the figures in the link below) it will fall into a higher road tax band and cost a few hundred euro more per year than a german hot hatch.
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^^
If the video Martin posted isn't enjoyment then I don't know what is. The sheer concentration and engagement communicated by the driver show that this car isn't a toyot. It's a sports car, and the engine acoustics are. It bad either. Haters and sceptics alike need to give this car a clap. It's the working man's sports car.
If the video Martin posted isn't enjoyment then I don't know what is. The sheer concentration and engagement communicated by the driver show that this car isn't a toyot. It's a sports car, and the engine acoustics are. It bad either. Haters and sceptics alike need to give this car a clap. It's the working man's sports car.
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I saw this vid. It sounds quite good, if to be shy. I have he feeling, today, the worlds best sport cars are in Japan:
GT86: FUN, this car should really be like go-kart.
GT-R: POWER, this thing destroys the G-meter.
LF-A: ART, in engineering & design, simply a masterpiece.
GT86: FUN, this car should really be like go-kart.
GT-R: POWER, this thing destroys the G-meter.
LF-A: ART, in engineering & design, simply a masterpiece.
Poverty
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I think we all understand the intention of this car, its basically a hard top attempt of the mx5, and a less hardcore lotus elise. For 28,000 pounds the competition is pretty steep though, and people will look at the on paper stats and just wont get it. For the majority of people, they do not track the car, and for a occasional weekend toy, the mx5 must surely be better suited as it is after a convertible.
This car is basically like a gen7 celica but with rwd instead of fwd. Do you think it will be a sales success? I doubt it, not for 28,000 pounds and such a weak engine. 0-60 in 7 secs is a joke.
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Forget pure acceleration. The confidence and corner speeds the owners will be carrying in this car will make up for whatever drag raves they lose against to hatches. This ca will find itself in the hands of happy owners.
Poverty
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I didn't realize a quattro TT was about 3100 lbs. Not bad. But the weight distribution is 60:40, pretty abysmal for a "performance" car.
Regarding making a sports car with the LFA engine....as B773ER has said, it's called the LFA. Keep in mind, just the LFA engine is about $90,000.
Yes, because the Toyota badge is that terrible.
/sarcasm.
Since you brought up the TT, let's keep in mind that it's based on a V-Dub Golf. Now the TT is a nice car with a pretty trick Bauhaus-inspired design, but let's not kid ourselves that it's one of those VW's with 4-ring emblems slapped on to it. Again, nothing wrong with taking advantage of economies of scale, but let's not kid ourselves.
The Toyota/Subaru makes zero intentions of being a luxury car filled with frills, unlike a TT, it's a very roots-oriented sports car for the sake of driving fun.
Styling is subjective, I'll give you that. But, pray-tell, what stupid superfluous gadgets does the LFA have?
Many well-respected auto journalists/enthusiasts who have spent their personal and professional time behind the wheels of so many cars that many of us can only dream of driving, yet many say it's one of the most focused driver's car. Yeah, the price is rather stratospheric, but many upon many say it's rather justified.
Sorry, Poverty, don't mean to single you out, but I can't help feeling you're a tad bit biased, all because of a little ol' badge.
weight distro doesnt mean much. The evo, impreza and megane sport have similiar weight distrobution.
If nissan can do it, albeit whilst making a loss per unit in the early days, so can toyota. Make that LFA engine more easily accessible imo. Id buy one tomorrow.
The TT uses some of the architecture, but having owned a true VW mk5 golf chassis car and now the TT I can say the drive is very very different. Different materials, stiffer, lighter, and a wider track. Seems good enough for the TTRS to beat ALL porsches in the targa tasmania rally, and only beating by a race prepped lambo superleggari and a 700hp GTR. But thats off topic so lets not discuss the TT again.
The LFA is overpriced for what it is truth be told. Theres nothing groundbreaking as such on the car either. Give me a GT3 RS 4.0 instead.
Now lets look at it logically.
Toyota ft86.
0-60 in 7 secs.
143mph top speed.
High emission engine.
Low spec interior.
Undesirable badge
Premium 28k sterling price tag.
28k also buys you.
3 year old audi TTRS
3 year old bmw m3
New scirocco R
5 year old aston v8 vantage
8k more gets you a new boxster
new lotus elise
new mx5
new clio sport cup and 8k change
So as you can see the competition is tough, and who wants to own a shouty shouty car like the ft86 that has no bite to back it up. Its straightline performance figures are dismall for 2011, it will be getting smoked off the lights by diesels, normal everyday mercedes c-class, etc, never mind when it comes up against a fwd hot hatch which once rolling will obliterate this silly cereal box car with the obscene price tag,
28k and 200hp doesnt go. 200hp and 17k and I could see it selling. In the mean time i'll stick to a mx5 or lotus for my rwd shit n giggles. Or just do what I do now and go karting.
Poverty
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so what they really need is a renault clio. How many people actually do track days? Not many, and I can assure you that to really enjoy the car and get good cornering speeds will require a confident driver, soemthing most people again are not.
Dont get me wrong guys, as a track enthusiast I get the intention of the car, and im sure its a blast, but from a sales success point of view I cannot see it selling due to its high price tag. The car is meant to be a all rounder, but so far it looks like it only excels in one department and only when you are in an environment which allows you to do so.
Dont get me wrong guys, as a track enthusiast I get the intention of the car, and im sure its a blast, but from a sales success point of view I cannot see it selling due to its high price tag. The car is meant to be a all rounder, but so far it looks like it only excels in one department and only when you are in an environment which allows you to do so.
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The comparison with used cars is terrible. Not only is it unfair but a false economy. A cheap Aston is not cheap. Servicing a used Vantage totals to the down payment for the Toyota. There is a reason The Vantage can be had for reasonable money, it's dead expensive to own and so are many of the sports cars you mentioned that can be had at "bargain" prices. The point of the Toyota is that it's affordable to buy and too own. It's not trying to be a playboy car. It's a car for middle class people who would like to get their hands on a thrilling sports car st makes economic sense.
It should not. That is the most spectacular thing of the FT-86. It is a high revving engine, yet the emissions are only 160 gm/km. That is much lower than almost all 200 HP turbocharged cars. That flies in the face of the companies making excuses to move away from high-revving engines to turbo low-revving cars that it is not possible to have a low emission with high-revving engines. Truth be told, it is nothing but an excuse to cut corners.
A very flawed way of looking at things. Truth be told, I can buy a E60 M5 for $40K CAD and I can pay for it in cash. However, there is always a flipside and that is the maintenance costs are an arm and a leg, which keep me from getting one. It is also the reason why these cars depreciate so much since they become money pits.
Also, the 7 seconds 0 - 60 mph is a very conservative estimate. The true real world tests will show what the number looks like.
Nothing revolutionary about the LFA??
Clearly, it demonstrates your severe lack of understanding of the subject matter. I could see the skepticism in the beginning, but now LFA has proven everything and beyond what it was supposed to. If you don't like the LFA, that is fine, but please don't utter such baseless assumptions here.
How about the 10 patents the chief engineer developed just for the Lexus LFA R&D???
How about the circular loom weaving carbon fiber methodology that was invented by Toyota just for the Lexus LFA??
How about the fact that the V10 in LFA is lighter than a 3.0 Liter V6 and the size is smaller than a 4.0 Liter V8??
How about the 9500 rpm rev limit with almost 90% of the torque available even at the limit, which simply has been unheard of in a production supercar?? Never been done before.
How about an engine that almost has ZERO inertia and can rev up to 9000 rpm in just over half a second (which is why the digital tachometer you dogged on was invented since an analog cannot keep up with the rapidly rising and dropping engine rpms)
For a very first exotic supercar, lapping the Nurburgring in 7:14 on street tires with full luxury amenities including nav system, stereo etc. is no ordinary feat.
A very flawed way of looking at things. Truth be told, I can buy a E60 M5 for $40K CAD and I can pay for it in cash. However, there is always a flipside and that is the maintenance costs are an arm and a leg, which keep me from getting one. It is also the reason why these cars depreciate so much since they become money pits.
Also, the 7 seconds 0 - 60 mph is a very conservative estimate. The true real world tests will show what the number looks like.
Nothing revolutionary about the LFA??
Clearly, it demonstrates your severe lack of understanding of the subject matter. I could see the skepticism in the beginning, but now LFA has proven everything and beyond what it was supposed to. If you don't like the LFA, that is fine, but please don't utter such baseless assumptions here.
How about the 10 patents the chief engineer developed just for the Lexus LFA R&D???
How about the circular loom weaving carbon fiber methodology that was invented by Toyota just for the Lexus LFA??
How about the fact that the V10 in LFA is lighter than a 3.0 Liter V6 and the size is smaller than a 4.0 Liter V8??
How about the 9500 rpm rev limit with almost 90% of the torque available even at the limit, which simply has been unheard of in a production supercar?? Never been done before.
How about an engine that almost has ZERO inertia and can rev up to 9000 rpm in just over half a second (which is why the digital tachometer you dogged on was invented since an analog cannot keep up with the rapidly rising and dropping engine rpms)
For a very first exotic supercar, lapping the Nurburgring in 7:14 on street tires with full luxury amenities including nav system, stereo etc. is no ordinary feat.
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Don't know about other, but for me this is just the car that I was looking for. Sure I'd like more power, but for now, until I'll swapp in the 2013 WXR turbo engine, it will be enough. I waited very long for the BMW Z2 and till today there is no sign of any life. I would like the new Cayman S (981), but for the price I'd still take the faster new M3 (F80) and also alot more practical.
Poverty
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PATENTS doesnt make a car revolutionary. There are new patents filed daily for even the most mundane things. Revolutionary for a production road car, not revolutionary for the car itself though, as its been done. But lets stick to the FT86.
Theres nothing thrilling about a road car which does 0-60 in 7 secs, sorry.
P.S
TTRS costs pretty much the same to run as any other VAG hothatch. just add extra consumables for the extra cylinder
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