i3 (I01) [Official] The BMW i3 Official Thread

[Sunny]

In the absence of the possibility that BMW controls who gets invited to this and future BMW events, we have to conclude that 100% of "randomly" selected journalists think that the i3 is wonderful.

How is it any diffrent Ace, from any of the these press drive events for any car by any manufacturer?

Note on general state of this thread - yes, electric cars are new and unfamiliar and with their own pros and cons. There is definitely a case for an intelligent debate about these pros and cons. I also get why many don't "get it" and why it is even not suitable for many. But some of the arguments put forth here is just outright silly and bordering on some kind of automotive version of xenophobia.

 

[ACE]

How is it any diffrent Ace, from any of the these press drive events for any car by any manufacturer?

Did I suggest it was different to other manufacturers? No, I simply gave a plausible answer to Eni's question.

And using the word xenophobia is inappropriate in this discussion IMO.

 

[DblPen]

I personally don't get cars like the i3 or any all electric city car but then again I don't live in a big city so my brain isn't tuned to that kind of lifestyle. I'm sure if 99% of my journeys were less than 10/15 miles such a car would make a lot of sense especially if you were being offered a proper car for the occasional long journey.

The distance between two biggest cities in my country are 100km and most poeple travel from 10 to 20 km to work, so i3 would be like ideal vehicle. The bad thing is charging points are non existant or any infrastructure for electric vehicles.

 

[EnI]

Ok guys for the love of mercy... stop getting so personal with each other.

It must be the Moon.

 

[Deckhook]

The distance between two biggest cities in my country are 100km and most poeple travel from 10 to 20 km to work, so i3 would be like ideal vehicle. The bad thing is charging points are non existant or any infrastructure for electric vehicles.

I honestly can't answer what manufacturers are doing to boost the amount of charging points but IMHO the only way for these vehicle to gain global appeal is for a dramatic increase in the number of charging points and these very manufacturers to pay for this to happen.

But ultimately until it's built into surface of parking spaces both at the side of the street and in car parks through contactless charging I don't see it overtaking fossil fuels whilst it's still readily available.

 

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[Sunny]

Did I suggest it was different to other manufacturers? No, I simply gave a plausible answer to Eni's question.

And using the word xenophobia is inappropriate in this discussion IMO.

I thought I clarified the context in which I used the word pretty well - "automotive version of xenophobia". Xenophobia, according to wikipedia -

the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange

which is exactly what some here are displaying. So IMO, very appropriate.

 

[SCOTT27]

BMW Mulls Boosting Electric-Car Capacity on Early Demand

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW), the world’s biggest maker of luxury vehicles, is considering a production increase for the i3 electric car after early demand for the model exceeded the automaker’s expectations.
Customers have reserved more than 8,000 of the compact city car, which will cost $41,350 in the U.S., even before the battery-powered model hits European showrooms next month, Chief Financial Officer Friedrich Eichiner said late yesterday.

“If demand holds, which is what it’s looking like, we will soon have to invest more,” he said at a press conference in Amsterdam. BMW expects to sell more than 10,000 of the i3 next year and “will adjust capacity according to demand.”
BMW’s preliminary success is a positive sign for the entire industry. While automakers are rolling out scores of new electric cars, they have struggled with efforts to gain traction with alternative-drive vehicles amid consumer concern that powering systems offer only limited distance before a recharge is needed and objections to higher prices.
The i3 will go on sale in Germany for 34,950 euros ($47,440) on Nov. 16, followed by the U.S., China and Japan in the first half of next year. The model made its public debut July 29 at simultaneous events in New York, London and Beijing. The push to sell the electric car and recoup investments in the technology underpinning the vehicle include an international print, TV and Internet advertising campaign.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ectric-car-investment-on-early-i3-demand.html

 

[Cabasse0]

Scott > official tarets for i3 is10000 units & 1500 for the i8 ?

 

[deity]

How is it any diffrent Ace, from any of the these press drive events for any car by any manufacturer?

Note on general state of this thread - yes, electric cars are new and unfamiliar and with their own pros and cons. There is definitely a case for an intelligent debate about these pros and cons. I also get why many don't "get it" and why it is even not suitable for many. But some of the arguments put forth here is just outright silly and bordering on some kind of automotive version of xenophobia.

How is it fair that what you perceive to "make sense" is what actually makes sense? If I disagree with you I "don't get it" but at the same time you acknowledge that there is a clear, rational reason why a person would be on either side.

 

[Sunny]

^Yes, there is a rational debate to be made about pros and cons about electric cars and it's suitability for various uses/markets, but when that argument, to use an example, is this silly caricature -

And somehow the i3 target market is going to want to get out of their compostable status symbol and hop onto a bus? Give me a break. Probably just gonna call the chauffeur to drive the S600 over instead.

Yes, that would be an example of not "getting it". I live around many people with electric cars, I assure you none of them have a chauffeured S600 and many do take public transportation regularly.

 

[Deckhook]

^Like I said earlier it's a deliberate lifestyle choice an electric car and as such I am sure those people would prefer to use public transport than use a gas guzzler.........but they are still in a minority and for the rest of us the idea of driving a car part of the way to then jump on a bus/train etc to complete our journey is very alien. It will take a lot of years and a whole change to the infrastructure and method of charging before this type of product will catch on with the masses.

 

[EnI]

In the absence of the possibility that BMW controls who gets invited to this and future BMW events, we have to conclude that 100% of "randomly" selected journalists think that the i3 is wonderful.

Actually, the Miramas track "drive" in August was an exclusive event where only the invited journalists from selected media were present (as passengers in i3 prototypes).

The October press drives in Amsterdam has been an open press event - when every journalist who applied in advance got a chance to participate & test drive the i3 himself/herself.

So, the August "drive" - on which the negative Road&Track review is based on - was controlled by manufacturer since BMW stuff was present all the time & also the media recording was limited (eg. no dash shots allowed etc).

And ALL the reviews from Amsterdam press drives (I had read) has been positive so far - regarding the drive (handling, performance, steering etc).

Actually, the R&T article was the only one so far criticizing the i3's handling.
And as said: it's obvious Mr Cammisa, the author of the R&T article, has obviously very wrongful expectations. Expectations has to be within "genre": compare sub-compact MPVs with each others not an mini MPV with a large sedan etc.

Also, saying "It does not drive like a BMW" is quite a vague claim. Which BMW? 1er? X5? X1? 7er LWB? Z4? M3? 6er Cabrio?

Geez, the i3 has the length of VW Polo yet it's 12cm (4.7") higher - so it has mini MPV dimensions & sitting position. Sure the point of gravity is lower than on conventional MPV but still on eg. sub-compact car level, not eg a coupe level. Also: the cones on the track were placed very tight together to demonstrate i3's tight turning radius - so making extremely short turns at higher speed in an MPV - sure you get the SAV driving feeling, and not the one of sports coupe.

i3 drives & handles exceptional well for what it is: a city car of MPV proportions. And it's as agile as much smaller (shorter) cars. Eg. VW Polo's turning radius is 10.60m and the one of i3 is 9.86m - merely the same (9.80m) as the turning circle of VW Up!, which is more than 50cm (half a meter!) shorter than BMW i3 - and consequently much less roomier.

To expect from a sub-compact city MPV (mind i3 is the shortest BMW available at the moment!) to drive like a sports car is just ridiculous. And it's even more stupid to compare it (any feature & characteristic) with full-size luxury 5dr sedan Tesla S. It's like comparing apples & oranges.

Being a RWD rear-engined MPV i3 is set to understeer when pushed in corners - it's a city MPV, not a sports car. And drivers of city cars are usually not very much familiar with oversteering & also not liking it (mainly because city cars are FWD or set to drive like a FWD car).

Here are some lines from British press regarding i3's handling & drive:

And it corners like a BMW. Sort of. OK, a short, wide BMW with narrow tyres. Pile into a bend and it'll understeer. Jam the accelerator hard in a tight bend and the front end goes light and it'll understeer. But be smooth, or give a slight lift to dig the front tyres in, and it's neutral, the driven rear wheels finding plenty of traction. The chassis gives you good feel for what's up, the steering less so. But the steering is direct and the wheelbase short, so the i3 is always agile.

Because you sit high, there's some lateral rocking on undulating roads, but nothing to upset the applecart. Otherwise the ride is decently controlled, if fairly taut. Because the body feels so strong and rigid, you've got confidence.

The rigidness of the carbon fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) shell and the positioning of the batteries below the floor pan give it a head start in this regard, as does the near-perfect 50:50 weight distribution.

Yet even though it's rear-wheel drive, those expecting lurid BMW M3-like sideways moments will be disappointed; find the limits of the skinny tyres and the i3 will push on in understeer rather than oversteer. Still, the rear-drive set-up does give the handling a purity.

The steering is surprisingly weighty and full of feel, allowing you to place the car exactly where you want it, while the low centre of gravity means that it remains composed during quick direction changes.

With 168bhp and 184lb ft of torque the moment you brush the throttle, the new BMW is more than merely brisk. In fact, its performance is good enough to match some big name hot hatches.

Indeed, in the cut and thrust of city traffic, the new BMW is extraordinarily agile and fun to drive.

The ride is quite firm and tends to become frigid on anything but smooth road surfaces. The damping, on the other hand, is relatively soft, leading to rather exaggerated levels of lean when you pitch the new BMW into a bend. The tall but narrow tyres provide relatively strong adhesion, but with so much performance on hand it doesn’t take much to get the traction and stability control systems working mid-corner.

Obviously those chaps knew what they were driving and appreciated the drive - and praised the car's qualities for what it is: a megacity EV of sub-compact MPV dimensions. No, it ain't Tesla S, it ain't 1er coupe, it even ain't Mini hatch.

It was designed to be brisk @ acceleration, agile in city streets & easy to park. And believe me: no other sub-compact MPV is as fun to drive as i3. Judge within the segment / genre, please.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Huh. Really? How?. You have to accept that there are people who will buy this car. You do not speak for the masses. Just cos you don't like it doesn't mean every single person in the world doesn't like it.

Oh braaf. Of course the introduction of electric cars is highly controversial! It's got nothing to do with what I think about them. Even the most ardent supporter of vehicles like the i3 would admit there is a level of uncertainty in whether this is the future of motor transport. Is the future something else we don't yet know about? What are the real costs of electric vehicles from the start of production to disposing of the vehicle for scrap. As more people buy electric cars, how do countries generate enough electricity to power them? Do we build more nuclear power stations or go for a more sustainable approach?

This is the most critical moment for the car since the car was invented. How can it remain relevant in the 21st Century.

Note on general state of this thread - yes, electric cars are new and unfamiliar and with their own pros and cons. There is definitely a case for an intelligent debate about these pros and cons.

Exactly. Which is what I was trying to do before ENI started getting insulting and talking about me, my personality and other aspects about me, rather than discussing the subject at hand. I reported the posts but nothing has happened and they're still there. In the future I won't waste my time reporting the posts and I'll just respond to ENI in the same may he talked to me.

 

[EnI]

What it stops EVs from being more popular & spread (beside high price - which then can be subsides if needed) is the LACK OF CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE. Except in some cities & areas in vast majority of places charging infrastructure is almost non-existing or very very limited. Street charging stations are rare, parking houses have very limited charging facilities, induction charging pads are still more of Sci-Fi ... There's a lack of standardized charging stations & plugs etc. Much has to be done on charging infrastructure so the EVs will become really useful.

The electro companies are not really interested in developing the infrastructure alone - since it's costly. While carmakers expect exactly that from those companies - since they will make money on selling electricity (charging the charges). Installation of powerful (QiuckCharge) charging stations is costly - since usually new transformer stations has to be built near-by to provide more powerful current etc. Not to mention all the cable installation beneath the streets etc.

So ... Until then EVs will be used by early adopters mainly, and will be limited to the areas with already developed charging infrastructure. The more charging infrastructure gets developed the more Evs will we see on the roads. In was the same case with ICE cars in the early years - the lack of gas stations holds the more rapid car expansion.

 

[Human]

What it stops EVs from being more popular & spread (beside high price - which then can be subsides if needed) is the LACK OF CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE. Except in some cities & areas in vast majority of places charging infrastructure is almost non-existing or very very limited. Street charging stations are rare, parking houses have very limited charging facilities, induction charging pads are still more of Sci-Fi ... There's a lack of standardized charging stations & plugs etc. Much has to be done on charging infrastructure so the EVs will become really useful.

The electro companies are not really interested in developing the infrastructure alone - since it's costly. While carmakers expect exactly that from those companies - since they will make money on selling electricity (charging the charges). Installation of powerful (QiuckCharge) charging stations is costly - since usually new transformer stations has to be built near-by to provide more powerful current etc. Not to mention all the cable installation beneath the streets etc.

So ... Until then EVs will be used by early adopters mainly, and will be limited to the areas with already developed charging infrastructure. The more charging infrastructure gets developed the more Evs will we see on the roads. In was the same case with ICE cars in the early years - the lack of gas stations holds the more rapid car expansion.

Also here in SA our demand for power currently outstrips supply + I cannot think whom will invest in any kind of charging station infrastructure here. Even with our fast growing economy (that puts enormous pressure on the grid) and HUGE infrastructure upgrades the price of electricity here is SA is SUPER or rather ridiculously high and I mean HIGH! We do not have a natural gas supply as such or any alternative. Also as new Power Stations are being build it will not be sooner than 2025 when supply will equal demand. I myself, living in a colder/cooler region in Central South-Africa spent more than 10% of my monthly income on my power bill to SA's only ESCOM. Whilst at the same time I spend 20% of my income on BMW's (Fuel and Insurance excluded)

Electric is NOT the solution, no debate about that. It is however a great means of adding substantial revenue and subsidy to BMW AG's treasure chest

 

[sunnyman12]

the[/U] solution, no debate about that. It is however a great means of adding substantial revenue and subsidy to BMW AG's treasure chest

I love the idea of not reverting to electric power, but we have to realize, our car companies have been bastardised, BMW does not represent what it used to, their focus is more about putting people in the driver seats, rather than drivers. We got to understand that EV's, or ridding cars of manuals, or self parking and autonomous cars, they are for people, not us. We love the sensation of driving, we hardly influence the industry.

I think that alternative powertrains are the future and soon, it has to be, petroleum as a mode of transport is antiquated, it is highly inefficient in its delivery, it causes large amounts of pollution, and it serves a bigger purpose producing everything else that we consume.

the i3 is probably not yet perfect, but it shows that we're not far off, I don't think we can write it off and say that it is not possible, mostly because it is not a technology that parallels why we are so attracted to automobiles.

PS- Also doesn't mean that all BMW's are bastardised, the m4 is on the horizon.

 

[braaf]

Oh braaf. Of course the introduction of electric cars is highly controversial! It's got nothing to do with what I think about them. Even the most ardent supporter of vehicles like the i3 would admit there is a level of uncertainty in whether this is the future of motor transport. Is the future something else we don't yet know about? What are the real costs of electric vehicles from the start of production to disposing of the vehicle for scrap. As more people buy electric cars, how do countries generate enough electricity to power them? Do we build more nuclear power stations or go for a more sustainable approach?

This is the most critical moment for the car since the car was invented. How can it remain relevant in the 21st Century.

I get your point. However all the points you raise have been debated to death before and after commercial Evs were released. Its now just a case of the believers vs the non believers which judging by your posts, you are clearly a non believer. My point is that the controversy is gone already. Evs are here and are happening.

We must also ask ourselves the question, with so many other so called cleaner alternatives (Fuel cells and bio fuels) available, why are so many manufacturers going the battery powered route. Do they know something we don't. As humanity we can't stand still. ICE's have been around for more than 100 years and although great strides have been made to make them more and more efficient their progress has been slow. It's time to start something new and develop it to be more efficient and electric cars is that something new.

 

[EnI]

BMW i3 with its tiny tires performed exceptionally well @ "elk-test" where most (28/31) "Car of the year 2014" contenders were tested:

Car ... Tyre ... Max. speed

Porsche Cayman ... Pirelli P Zero Front: 235/35 R20, Rear: 265/35 R20 ... 78 km/h
Tesla S ... Goodyear Eagle RSA 245/45 R19 ... 76 km/h
BMW i3 ... Bridgestone Eco Front: 155/70 R19, Rear: 175/60 R19 ... 73 km/h
BMW 4-series ... Bridgestone Potenza 225/50 R17 ... 73 km/h
Seat Leon ... Pirelli P7 225/45 R17 72 km/h
Skoda Octavia ... Dunlop Sport Max 225/45 R17 ...72 km/h
Maserati Ghibli ... Dunlop Sport Max 275/40 R19 ... 72 km/h
Jaguar F-type ... Pirelli P Zero Front: 255/35 R20, Rear: 295/30 R20 ... 72 km/h
Mercedes S 500 Lang ... Michelin Pilot Sport 3 275/40 R19 ... 71 km/h
Peugeot 308 ... Michelin Energy 205/55 R16 ... 70 km/h
Mazda3 ... Dunlop SP Sport Max 215/45 R18 ... 70 km/h
Lexus IS 300h ... Bridgestone Turanza 225/40 R18 ... 70 km/h
Range Rover Sport ... Pirelli Scorpion Verde all season 275/45 R21 ... 70 km/h
Renault Zoe ... Michelin X Green 185/65 R15 ... 69 km/h

More: http://totalcarmagazine.com/features/2013/10/09/no_car_turned_over_this_time/

And there's a bloke from R&T who claims i3 handles like an SUV. Really, Mr Cammisa?

 

[Deckhook]

^Exceptional result, if I were ever to buy an i3 I'll definitely be safe if an elk jumps in front. Not that we get elks here but I suppose a cow will have to do instead. lol