911 (991) [Official] Porsche 991 911 Carrera 4 & 4S
- Thread starter omoderncultureo
- Start date
The Porsche 991 is the seventh generation of the Porsche 911 sports car, produced from September 2011 to December 2019. It was unveiled at the 2011 Frankfurt Motor Show on 15 September as the replacement for the 997. Production: September 2011 – December 2019.
Merc1
Premium
I do too. Would have gone with a Panamera if it weren't for the pending facelift. I love the Boxster, 911, Cayenne and there is such a love/hate thing with the Panamera.
M
Sunny
Premium
Apparently they taught the old manual a new trick -
Not sure what is the point of double declutching a syncromeshed transmission, let alone automatically doing in it in a manual. I am guessing it will also blip the throttle, so now you look like a star even on a manual, no need to plunk 4k for a PDK...
edit: the 370z has something similar - link
Not sure what is the point of double declutching a syncromeshed transmission, let alone automatically doing in it in a manual. I am guessing it will also blip the throttle, so now you look like a star even on a manual, no need to plunk 4k for a PDK...
edit: the 370z has something similar - link
Giannis
Staff member
I am of the opinion that what double clutching offers is mainly a huge smile that shouts "yes, I am that good". It's something I enjoy doing in my old Clio that has a manual clutch and cable operated gas pedal/intake butterfly (compared to drive by wire). I am not sure if I see any difference if I just blipped the throddle when I push the clutch pedal, but I like to think that I'm doing something more
Seriously speaking, though, isn't the double-clutching supposed to sync the gears, so that you can just bang the gear in and quickly take your foot off the clutch?
Sunny
Premium
I am of the opinion that what double clutching offers is mainly a huge smile that shouts "yes, I am that good". It's something I enjoy doing in my old Clio that has a manual clutch and cable operated gas pedal/intake butterfly (compared to drive by wire). I am not sure if I see any difference if I just blipped the throddle when I push the clutch pedal, but I like to think that I'm doing something more
Seriously speaking, though, isn't the double-clutching supposed to sync the gears, so that you can just bang the gear in and quickly take your foot off the clutch?
I was thinking a little more about this, if the transmission can automatically double clutch, it means there is some hydraulic/electrical mechanism controlled by ecu/tcu that can engage and disengage the clutch. So my question is what does the clutch pedal do, does it actually mechanically engage/disengage the clutch like in a normal manual transmission or is it just a fancy electrical switch telling the ecu/tcu to do it for you?
Giannis
Staff member
I doubt they offer a mechanically/hydraulically controled clutch. I find it more possible to just blip the throttle (which is controlled from the ECU) in order to just offer a sportier-feeling experience. They would have to reengineer half the car in order to automatically double clutch!
On the other hand, isn't the new 7sp manual 'box heavily based on the PDK, with the gear lever being only a joystick, as the gears are controlled by the PDK's hydraulics, leaving only the clutch manually operated?
klier
Premium
You're right, the new Turbo will not come with a manual option.
Don't you mean "manual"?
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
That's very clever and could be a hint at what we might see in the GT3, a hybrid version of a a manual gearbox and PDK. I will dig into this and find out whether the clutch in the car is hydraulically or electronically operated.
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
It seems like the clutch is still manually operated as this gearbox feature which was debuted in the Nissan 350z is more of an ECU exercise in managing revs and engine speeds on the behalf of a driver when it sense an intention to downshift. Nissan even mated the ECU with the Gearbox. Hopefully Porsche will release some more technical mumbojumbo about their solution.
Here's an article explaining the workings: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/08/porsche-auto-blip/
Here's an article explaining the workings: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/08/porsche-auto-blip/
Sunny
Premium
I don't think the Porsche unit is similar to the Nissan one.
The Nissan unit, just uses some sensors to detect when the clutch is about to engage and tell the ecu to blip the throttle based on the engine and vehicle speed. Where as the press release for the Porsche unit explicitly says it "automatically double declutches".
The Nissan unit, just uses some sensors to detect when the clutch is about to engage and tell the ecu to blip the throttle based on the engine and vehicle speed. Where as the press release for the Porsche unit explicitly says it "automatically double declutches".
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
That raises a few questions
-Is it a hardware or software feature?
-If it is hardware does it mean that cars without sports chrono plus will have hardware in the gearbox that's "dead weight"?
-If software, will existing 991s be able to update the ECU?
-Or is it simply a reworked manual gearbox with a manual clutch that can also be electronically operated by the ECU?
Sunny
Premium
Yea, I have, but just a 10 min test drive and I never used the 7th gear. I actually liked it. It is pretty slick, not as mechanical or notchy as the GT3 unit. The high position of the shifter feels odd and probably needs adjusting to but is probably awesome once you get used to it. I drove it back to back with PDK and I would definitely pick it over the PDK - which is BTW vastly better than PDK in 997.
Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
Soup
Premium
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evo...orsche_911_carrera_4_review_and_pictures.html
What is it?
The Porsche 911 Carrera 4, the latest iteration as the new 991 range steadily grows. We’ve driven it in entry level C4 trim, which kicks the AWD range off at £77,924.
Technical highlights?
The latest version of Porsche’s PTM system uses an electromechanical clutch to distribute torque when required to the front axle, with a claimed maximum response time of only 100 milliseconds, continuously informed by a variety of sensors.
The four-wheel drive cars benefit from a wider rear track (42mm on the C4 and 36mm on the C4S) with 10mm wider rubber at the rear. And as with all 991s, there’s an extensive range of high-tech chassis options available such as the PDCC active anti-roll bars and PTV torque vectoring, at a price of course.
As well as introducing a driven front axle, it’s also the debut of the wider 991 bodyshell – as before, an extra 44mm across the hips – that will also be used in future Turbo and RS high performance 911s.
What’s it like to drive?
Naturally, there’s a weight penalty (50kg over a rear-drive 991), but Porsche claims the 991 ‘4’ is up to 65kg lighter than the equivalent 997.2 thanks to the carefully chosen materials used in the car’s construction.
As with the rear-wheel drive 991, this is not a car that immediately wants to begin a dialogue with the driver, like say a 997. However, when you find the right road to really exploit it, the C4 is blisteringly effective. There’s a little more weight to the steering from the moment you begin to turn, and grip levels are immense. Say what you like about the steering, but you never find yourself making a second correction once you’ve set your course.
The 3.4-litre flat-six produces searing power and almost painfully loud sound effects with the sports exhaust and symposer open into the cockpit, but the otherwise excellent PDK tested here feels like it has a short second gear and a long third. With the 3.4 needing 5000rpm before it delivers a level of punch in line with its sound effects, you can be left waiting for the real fireworks.
How does it compare?
Fans of old 911s might be nonplussed by the devastating, vice-free (or character-free?) competence of the above, but subjectively there feels slightly more to engage with in this car than the rear-wheel drive Carrera.
Anything else I need to know?
A seven-speed manual gearbox comes as standard, with the PDK twin-clutch transmission an option. The Carrera 4S uses Porsche’s 394bhp 3.8-litre flat-six engine, with prices for the more powerful car starting at £87,959.
What is it?
The Porsche 911 Carrera 4, the latest iteration as the new 991 range steadily grows. We’ve driven it in entry level C4 trim, which kicks the AWD range off at £77,924.
Technical highlights?
The latest version of Porsche’s PTM system uses an electromechanical clutch to distribute torque when required to the front axle, with a claimed maximum response time of only 100 milliseconds, continuously informed by a variety of sensors.
The four-wheel drive cars benefit from a wider rear track (42mm on the C4 and 36mm on the C4S) with 10mm wider rubber at the rear. And as with all 991s, there’s an extensive range of high-tech chassis options available such as the PDCC active anti-roll bars and PTV torque vectoring, at a price of course.
As well as introducing a driven front axle, it’s also the debut of the wider 991 bodyshell – as before, an extra 44mm across the hips – that will also be used in future Turbo and RS high performance 911s.
What’s it like to drive?
Naturally, there’s a weight penalty (50kg over a rear-drive 991), but Porsche claims the 991 ‘4’ is up to 65kg lighter than the equivalent 997.2 thanks to the carefully chosen materials used in the car’s construction.
As with the rear-wheel drive 991, this is not a car that immediately wants to begin a dialogue with the driver, like say a 997. However, when you find the right road to really exploit it, the C4 is blisteringly effective. There’s a little more weight to the steering from the moment you begin to turn, and grip levels are immense. Say what you like about the steering, but you never find yourself making a second correction once you’ve set your course.
The 3.4-litre flat-six produces searing power and almost painfully loud sound effects with the sports exhaust and symposer open into the cockpit, but the otherwise excellent PDK tested here feels like it has a short second gear and a long third. With the 3.4 needing 5000rpm before it delivers a level of punch in line with its sound effects, you can be left waiting for the real fireworks.
How does it compare?
Fans of old 911s might be nonplussed by the devastating, vice-free (or character-free?) competence of the above, but subjectively there feels slightly more to engage with in this car than the rear-wheel drive Carrera.
Anything else I need to know?
A seven-speed manual gearbox comes as standard, with the PDK twin-clutch transmission an option. The Carrera 4S uses Porsche’s 394bhp 3.8-litre flat-six engine, with prices for the more powerful car starting at £87,959.
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
Urgh. Bummer to read that the convertible is less tantalizing than the coupe. It's nothing new though but I just wished that Porsche had edged closer to mitigating the added weight of a folding roof but that would have required a carbon fiber tub which is not an option in a car at this price bracket.
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Porsche
Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, is a German automobile manufacturer
specializing in high-performance sports cars, SUVs, and sedans,
headquartered in Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. Owned by
Volkswagen AG, it was founded in 1931 by Ferdinand Porsche.
In its early days, Porsche was contracted by the German government
to create a vehicle for the masses, which later became the Volkswagen
Beetle. In the late 1940s, Ferdinand's son Ferry Porsche began
building his car, which would result in the Porsche 356.
Official website: Porsche
Official website: Porsche
