S-Class (W223) [Official] Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W223)

[AbsoluteUnit]

Yesterday on a Dutch highway, I was on my way to a client. During the day the permitted speed is limited to 100 km/h. My automatic adaptive cruise control was set to 105 km/h. Suddenly, out of the blue, the car decelerated, because the system detected a non-existent 50 km/h speed sign.
So confident-inspiring these in-car assistent systems…

The funny thing is, Mercedes probably has the best in-car assistant/autonomous driving features. So if they can't get it to work faultlessly...

 

[Mick Briesgau]

The funny thing is, Mercedes probably has the best in-car assistant/autonomous driving features. So if they can't get it to work faultlessly...

Well, they can’t. I’m driving these kind of systems in a Mercedes since 2006. Always the newest, most sophisticated, refined option. It is getting better, but there is still a long way to go to perfection. What am I saying, not to perfection, but even to an acceptable level, which it still hasn’t reached imo.

 

[sl123]

Well, they can’t. I’m driving these kind of systems in a Mercedes since 2006. Always the newest, most sophisticated, refined option. It is getting better, but there is still a long way to go to perfection. What am I saying, not to perfection, but even to an acceptable level, which it still hasn’t reached imo.

Twice I had a sudden emergency full stop in the city without any cause. The garage found no cause each time. But it shakes my confidence in the car.

 

[kiki voinea]

The funny thing is, Mercedes probably has the best in-car assistant/autonomous driving features. So if they can't get it to work faultlessly...

As an avid user of all ADAS , I can confidently tell you that MB is one of the worst. Not because it fails , but because it is sooooo damn "safe" and slow.

And it fails to detect the car in front if bigger curve is in front of you.....

I speak for W222 and W223

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Twice I had a sudden emergency full stop in the city without any cause. The garage found no cause each time. But it shakes my confidence in the car.

Yep, sounds familiar, have experienced this as well.

Was that in one of your Mercedes or your BMW?

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

As an avid user of all ADAS , I can confidently tell you that MB is one of the worst. Not because it fails , but because it is sooooo damn "safe" and slow.

And it fails to detect the car in front if bigger curve is in front of you.....

I speak for W222 and W223

Completely disagree. I believe the W223 is the most confidence inspiring iteration of driver assistance I have ever experienced. But then we have driven very different cars outside of the S. Or perhaps we have very misaligned expectations. I feel bulletproof in the W223, coddled, and constantly reassured the Mercedes's network of nannies will do their best to keep me safe if I have a lapse of judgement, or another road user does.

I experienced a few false 'obstacle' glitches in the W222, but none so far in the W223 apart from a lange change system that is not entirely consistent in its availability.

Mercedes has openly stated recently that we are up to 50 years away from true autonomous driving on open roads. Earlier predictions are wildly off the reality of what is actually required for Level 5 autonomy.

And yes, I think Tesla has pulled off one the biggest marketing BS cons in automotive history by getting morons to believe they are actually self driving.

 

[sl123]

Yep, sounds familiar, have experienced this as well.

Was that in one of your Mercedes or your BMW?

W222 + W223.
I have to admit that the system on the other hand prevented two crashes. One was in the city: I changed the radio station on the W223s touchscreen thus not paying attention what’s going on in front of me.
The second time on the Autobahn: In front of me was a Mercedes Sprinter in full metal design, without windows, so I couldn't see through. Suddenly the Sprinter pulled to the right onto the hard shoulder - and there was a traffic jam in front of me. Before I could even react, the car initiated autonomous emergency braking from about 100 km/h and came to a halt about 20 cm before the car in front of me. At least it saved me from serious injury.

 

[kiki voinea]

Completely disagree. I believe the W223 is the most confidence inspiring iteration of driver assistance I have ever experienced. But then we have driven very different cars outside of the S. Or perhaps we have very misaligned expectations. I feel bulletproof in the W223, coddled, and constantly reassured the Mercedes's network of nannies will do their best to keep me safe if I have a lapse of judgement, or another road user does.

I experienced a few false 'obstacle' glitches in the W222, but none so far in the W223 apart from a lange change system that is not entirely consistent in its availability.

Mercedes has openly stated recently that we are up to 50 years away from true autonomous driving on open roads. Earlier predictions are wildly off the reality of what is actually required for Level 5 autonomy.

And yes, I think Tesla has pulled off one the biggest marketing BS cons in automotive history by getting morons to believe they are actually self driving.

Please read what I wrote.

For me it is slow and too "safe" . I like it a little more "risky". I did not say that it's bad. Just slower.

So probably suits you well. But I live in a intense traffic , and being slow to accelerate/decelerate/react makes you some sort of a problem.

But completely agree: We are faaaar away from 100% FSD

 

[Mick Briesgau]

W222 + W223.
I have to admit that the system on the other hand prevented two crashes. One was in the city: I changed the radio station on the W223s touchscreen thus not paying attention what’s going on in front of me.
The second time on the Autobahn: In front of me was a Mercedes Sprinter in full metal design, without windows, so I couldn't see through. Suddenly the Sprinter pulled to the right onto the hard shoulder - and there was a traffic jam in front of me. Before I could even react, the car initiated autonomous emergency braking from about 100 km/h and came to a halt about 20 cm before the car in front of me. At least it saved me from serious injury.

That, as well, sounds familiar. I’ve been saved several times after exhausting office days, for instance braking too hesitant in situations it should have been more sharp.

 

[mini_cooper4]

Completely disagree. I believe the W223 is the most confidence inspiring iteration of driver assistance I have ever experienced. But then we have driven very different cars outside of the S. Or perhaps we have very misaligned expectations. I feel bulletproof in the W223, coddled, and constantly reassured the Mercedes's network of nannies will do their best to keep me safe if I have a lapse of judgement, or another road user does.

I experienced a few false 'obstacle' glitches in the W222, but none so far in the W223 apart from a lange change system that is not entirely consistent in its availability.

Mercedes has openly stated recently that we are up to 50 years away from true autonomous driving on open roads. Earlier predictions are wildly off the reality of what is actually required for Level 5 autonomy.

And yes, I think Tesla has pulled off one the biggest marketing BS cons in automotive history by getting morons to believe they are actually self driving.

FSD 12.5 and up is crazy impressive.
There's plenty of hour long videos of it driving without interventions and it handles tough scenarios surprisingly well.
Still requires supervision but they are closer than ever.

 

[kiki voinea]

FSD 12.5 and up is crazy impressive.
There's plenty of hour long videos of it driving without interventions and it handles tough scenarios surprisingly well.
Still requires supervision but they are closer than ever.

Even the most die hard hater can't deny that ( I advise to look at the clips , for whoever wants)

BUT....Even if it's safe in 99.9% of the cases , that 0.01% may cause death....

 

[mini_cooper4]

Even the most die hard hater can't deny that ( I advise to look at the clips , for whoever wants)

BUT....Even if it's safe in 99.9% of the cases , that 0.01% may cause death....

Yes, it is a GIANT step up from 12.3.
What's even more impressive is that it does everything insanely smooth.

Busy city streets full of cars and people, cars parked on the road, people jaywalking, zero visibility turns, crossroads, merging... anything you can ask from it it does it and does it smoooooth.
Hundreds of videos where people intentionally try to push it over its limits and it handles everything without a sweat.
They scrapped the old FSD and pretty much started from scratch a few versions ago. It now learns from human behaviour - millions of Tesla drivers and an enormous amount of miles driven. It's surprisingly confidence inspiring and human like in the way it handles every situation.

Is it more capable than me as a driver ? No, but it only has one thing on its mind and it is driving whereas I often think about work behind the wheel.
Better than a huge chunk of people I had the "pleasure" of being a passenger of ? Yes, 99% of the time.
Better than my 87yo granpa ? I'd rather fall asleep behind the wheel of an FSD driven car for an hour than ride with him for a couple of miles.

 

[Jonathan19]

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[Merc1]

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M

 

[Rolf]

In my opinion the FL S-class coming in 2026 needs to be all PHEV with an EV range of at least 200km. If they can improve their battery chemistry and reduce the size using knowledge from the EQXX a 28Kwh battery could be 30% lighter and more compact which would increase the boot space and be more power dense than the current PHEV battery

 

[Merc1]

All PHEV is no go in US market. Not everyone wants to be bothered plugging up a car or the extra complexity.

M

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

All PHEV is no go in US market. Not everyone wants to be bothered plugging up a car or the extra complexity.

M

They're keeping the V8 for the US (I wish it was kept here in the UK, but alas).

However for most markets a more robust PHEV lineup would be good.

 

[Satanicom]

In my opinion the FL S-class coming in 2026 needs to be all PHEV with an EV range of at least 200km. If they can improve their battery chemistry and reduce the size using knowledge from the EQXX a 28Kwh battery could be 30% lighter and more compact which would increase the boot space and be more power dense than the current PHEV battery

Not everyone likes PHEV.

But I agree they needs to improve PHEV efficiency and battery density. 50% more cappacity is about 100miles or 160km range. That would be awesome especially in EU.

In Germany, France, Austria, Italy, a lot of people have ~60-70km distance to work. Imagine they travel only on EV mode on work and then back to home without charge. That would be really awesome.

Now in EU we have

Diesels:

• S350d 313hp
• S450d 367hp

... and diesel probably won't change

Petrol:

• S450 381hp
• S500 449hp
• S580 503hp

... I think S500 is excessive and they can merge S450 and S500 into one model - S480 with 420-430hp. S580 to bump on 530-540hp or even 600's version 557hp.

Hybrids:
S450e 300+150hp
S580e 367+150hp

They must upgrade batteries and make PHEV faster with more range, otherwise they won't be attractive. S580e with combined 517hp is 0.3s slower IRL than S450d with 367hp and have worst fuel efficiency.
S450e give him 330hp + 200hp with 160km range (0-100km/h should be under 5 sec)
S580e give him 449hp + 200hp with 160km range (0-100km/h should be around 4 sec)

AMG:
S63e 612+190hp

I wish S63e isn't stupid PHEV. If you want hybrid then develop something like Porsche 992.2 GTS.
639hp version and 70-80hp boost with small weight penalty. That would make S63 much faster and lighter.

 

[Jonathan19]

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[Jonathan19]

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