S-Class (W222/C217/A217) [Official] Mercedes-Benz S-Class Cabriolet (A217)

[mercpassion]

I think this is the major problem MB along which the other german brands is facing, how to differentiate between different models, the current generation of MB models is even worse than the previous generation in this respect, never before until a long time is there been so much resemblance across the MB line up, for example the next gen E is ditto C/S.

it is almost embarrassing to see a super luxurious automobile like this with so much resemblance to lesser models, esp. the front, however ignoring that, they still undoubtedly beautiful.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I think the strategy is VERY deliberate.

 

[mercpassion]

i'm not too sure why though?????

 

[SDNR]

I think the strategy is VERY deliberate.

You're right, it is certainly deliberate.

i'm not too sure why though?????

because Mercedes-Benz is not run by car lovers .....it's a corporation run by finance, marketting, and accounting personal. This is a corporate decision pure and simple.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Yes and the company is emerging from a period of such discord that the design consistency is probably even more so deliberate and apparent. It has been more than a decade since MB has had a range sporting one design language, and they're still not quite there yet with the likes of cars like the GLE, SLK and SL still baring the scars of the pfeiffer twilight years turmoil.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

still baring the scars of the pfeiffer twilight years turmoil

well put

 

[klier]

If there was a market for it, it would've been done.

And there is none because a 4 door cabrio is ugly per definition.

 

[mercpassion]

I admit pfieffers time were not the best of designs, however I do respect him for one thing, that being that he strook the right balance of resemblance and individuality of models, a perfect example being the W221 S compared the W204 C, this is the best manner in which a C is meant to be, with only minor hints of the S design, unlike the new W205, which is just pure W222 S, without much of it's own personality.

 

[Wolfgang]

i'm not too sure why though?????

This article may give some hints?


BRUNO SACCO
Born: November 12, 1933
Today: He is 73 and lives in Sindelfingen, Germany
Major contribution: Consistent design language for Mercedes brand
EUROPEAN AUTOMOTIVE HALL OF FAME
The man who shaped the quintessential car company

Bruno Sacco demanded stylistic affinity between different-sized Mercedes models.

Bruno Sacco is the man who created the classic Mercedes-Benz look and silhouette.

After short stints for design houses Ghia and Pininfarina, the Italian joined Mercedes in 1958. He was 24 years old.

Following his arrival, he worked on classics such as the large 600 sedan, some regard as the predecessor of today's Maybach ultraluxury car.

After Sacco took charge of Mercedes' styling department in 1975 he introduced a coherent design philosophy based on two principles:

1. Vertical affinity, which required that successor models should not make their predecessors look outdated

2. Horizontal homogeneity, which demanded stylistic affinity between different-sized models.

The philosophy culminated in Mercedes' 1980s lineup. Every model from the 190 "Baby Benz" sedan up to the S class and SL models shared the brand's signature look. Today, the S class built between 1979 and 1990 is considered by many as the quintessential luxury sedan.

Source: Jens Meiners, Automotive News, January 8, 2007

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

I didn't realize that Sacco had hand with the 600. Impressive. What a legend.

And there is none because a 4 door cabrio is ugly per definition.

Granted, it's a concept, but if the Ocean Drive is any indication, it can be done well. But I am starting to sound like a broken record. If M-B or, by extension, Maybach does a 4-door cabrio, that'd be interesting, unique, and I am confident, it will look good. It's a risky endeavor, but I think it'll pay off well for them. It would be another feather in their cap for a manufacturer that has historically produced amazing cars. If the don't, they don't.

 

[Wolfgang]

I didn't realize that Sacco had hand with the 600. Impressive. What a legend.

Agreed. His contribution was defining the overall dimensions of the vehicle, while Paul Bracq did the styling.

 

[SDNR]

Agreed. His contribution was defining the overall dimensions of the vehicle, while Paul Bracq did the styling.

Sacco was a very methodical and thoughtful designer .....more intellectual than emotional, he brought an Italian philosophical approach to German design. He helped transform Mercedes-Benz from a quintessentially German industrial producer of the Modern era into a Global brand for the Postmodern world.

Sacco was right for his time but the world has changed dramatically and his approach is simply too inflexible for today's extremely competitive and dynamic market.

 

[Sayyaaf]

Sacco was a very methodical and thoughtful designer .....more intellectual than emotional, he brought an Italian philosophical approach to German design. He helped transform Mercedes-Benz from a quintessentially German industrial producer of the Modern era into a Global brand for the Postmodern world.

Sacco was right for his time but the world has changed dramatically and his approach is simply too inflexible for today's extremely competitive and dynamic market.

I kind of agree and disagree Rob. I knew this is highly arguable but current MBs didn't retain a certain identity through ages like Sacco era. I mean look at any model that is in production now and you can barely trace it to older models. I don't know, maybe it is just me but I find it difficult for brands with rich history to evolve to the point that it is no longer easily recognizable.

btw I still remember you point of view about retro styling (maybe u changed ur mind while MIA ) but I guess its difficult to pass such rich history by following trends.

 

[SDNR]

I kind of agree and disagree Rob. I knew this is highly arguable but current MBs didn't retain a certain identity through ages like Sacco era. I mean look at any model that is in production now and you can barely trace it to older models. I don't know, maybe it is just me but I find it difficult for brands with rich history to evolve to the point that it is no longer easily recognizable.

btw I still remember you point of view about retro styling (maybe u changed ur mind while MIA ) but I guess its difficult to pass such rich history by following trends.

The difference is (and I am not being critical) today's designers are more stylists .....Sacco was a true designer. Sacco's approach was highly academic in the Italian way .....he wasn't very interested in trends if they didn't improve the function of the vehicle.

Today there is an obsession with brand recognition and emotional impact. We see Mercedes looking at its history and reintroducing styling elements from the past .....whereas Sacco was in the process of reducing Mercedes design to its most pure and essential. For example, Sacco really didn't like chrome .....now we see it all over the new cars.

I wouldn't call Mercedes new cars Retro .....but they certainly do place a lot of importance on historical references to contrive a connection with Mercedes' past -- and that's purely marketting ......nothing as meaningful as what Saaco was doing. I agree with you that it is difficult to trace much linear connection to older vehicles.

 

[mercpassion]

Bruno is the undisputed king of design, which is acknowledged by many MB/non MB fans, like you rightly pointed out, in his time he provided the quintessential model of modern automobile design, however I wouldn't neccesarily term the modern design idiom of being influenced by this period of design, because Gordon is been pointing out his 'sculptural and sensuous approach, evoking memories of the pre WW2 period' on numerous occasions, the new generation certainly confirms this, with highly sculptural forms combined with some hints of the Bruno period like the angled grilles etc.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Let's get Saco, Wagener and Lesnik in a room and get them to design the next S-class!

I think Wagener is doing a marvellous job at purifying the design ideology, meeting the market demands, attracting younger buyers to the brand and bringing greater homogeneity/identity across the range.

 

[SDNR]

Bruno is the undisputed king of design, which is acknowledged by many MB/non MB fans, like you rightly pointed out, in his time he provided the quintessential model of modern automobile design, however I wouldn't neccesarily term the modern design idiom of being influenced by this period of design, because Gordon is been pointing out his 'sculptural and sensuous approach, evoking memories of the pre WW2 period' on numerous occasions, the new generation certainly confirms this, with highly sculptural forms combined with some hints of the Bruno period like the angled grilles etc.

Good points.

This is a very big topic and I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll keep it brief

Sacco was trained at a time when the approach to design was very ideological .....with the Bauhaus and Ulm schools dominating the way design was taught in Europe .....designers were essentially trained to be dedicated to the industrial processes of production which meant products often lacked much individuality or expression.

.....Sacco was head of design at an interesting time, the entire approach to product design was changing as technology was allowing for much more complex forms and production methods .....this coincided with a cultural shift towards a more individualistic society. People demanded more expressive and personalized products. Despite this, Sacco never looked to the past for inspiration or brand identity, for him the identity of the product was an intrinsic part of its conception ......not something to be applied through evocative styling elements.

Today's Mercedes designers are obviously extremely talented .....they are working in a culture where people express their identities through the products they buy ......so design/styling has come to play a very dominant role in the world of industrial consumer products.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

For example, Sacco really didn't like chrome

True. Fine example of his chrome reduced design was the first series W124. The only chrome on it was the grill. However, if memory serves me right, most cars in that era (first half of the 80-ies) were very chrome reduced.

 

[klier]

Can you guys make a separate thread for MB designers? I am not interested in the slightest.

 

[SDNR]

Can you guys make a separate thread for MB designers? I am not interested in the slightest.

Lol ....well for the record, Msr. Bracq also worked for BMW