E-Class (W212/C207/A207) [Official] Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (W212) revealed

[Mr Robert]

It´s funny to read on a Mercedes press release that "M provides the most sporty model of all"

They must be thinking of the most sporty model (within the E-class range).

 

[Mr Robert]

I think its a commendable offering from AMG - it caters for the more enthusiastic crowd who yearn for more individuality and oomph.

I know of a company who could learn a lot from this mentality...

 

[SKY]

I know of a company who could learn a lot from this mentality...

Citroen?

 

[GTA45E]

Thanks for the awesome pic Artist The more I see it the more I like it!
Once again I believe black will the be the it color for this car, white to!

This version of the E63 sounds like it`s gonna perform greatly!
Love reading about the improvements

 

[cawimmer430]

Citroen?

Citroens have always been comfort-oriented and they've excelled at this. And when they sit down and create a sports car, they can also create proper ones.

 

[GTA45E]

I didn't want to bring that up, but yes the E63 is going to be need every one of those "horsepowers" to compete now. The facelift will cause Mercedes to go bezerk and up 600+ hp on the car.

M

The Gullwing is using the M156. I believe I read it will have like 571hp
This is MBs top car. That being the case the power-war is about over now as AMG suggested.

This almost makes me believe that AMG cars won`t use turbos. That would be fine with me.

 

[LaArtist]

Ohh hell yeah..i just realized how great this will look in white..

especially that pearl white they gave that IWC SL63----Drooool

 

[Merc1]

The Gullwing is using the M156. I believe I read it will have like 571hp
This is MBs top car. That being the case the power-war is about over now as AMG suggested.

This almost makes me believe that AMG cars won`t use turbos. That would be fine with me.

Oh I think they're going to use turbos, but they won't come until the next SL,S and S-Coupe/CL arrive which will be facelift time for the new E-Class. Then you're going to see some insane numbers, but I doubt if the turbo versions will be based on the engine in the SLS. The SLS engine when it gets turbos it should be around 700hp according to some old rumors about a "hammer" engine being in the works.

HP war isn't over, but the increases just won't be a big everytime, but there will be increases.....

M

 

[coolraoul]

Citroens have always been comfort-oriented and they've excelled at this. And when they sit down and create a sports car, they can also create proper ones.

That's right, Citroën has done sports cars in the past.

The Citroën SM, with a Maserati V6, had an incredible comfort... while it could put almost any sport car to a shame at the first corner thanks to its magical hydropneumatic suspension. It also had a very very original design, and an incredibly advanced interior design.

Now, Citroên doesn't do anything remotely as interesting. Since they've been bought by Peugeot, the creativity is dead.

 

[adeel2010]

Pure perfection! Exhaust tips look great!
However, the steering wheel doesn't look AMG. They don't look bad in person, but they aren't noticable like other AMG models.

 

[fortuner]

I wish we could get to see some more pics in different colours.
I absoloutly like this car and that interior is awesome especially the one with wood interior.
I wish amg would now design new rims this is nice rims but we need something new its a while now.
Also i think the steering looks good but it shoulkd have been different like the one in the c63 amg different to the rest off the c class line up.

WOW those carbon finishes look awesome in the performance package yeah its great to see amg offering the option for those who want more race style driving.I would take the normal amg with the carbon finishing wow that looks hot.

I also like how the led are fitted to this car compared to the standard E
Hope facelift time mb uses the amg way much better looking..

 

[martinbo]

For the folks talking about the gearbox issue of single vs. dual vs. multi-clutch...

Just remember that the wet clutch connecting the gearbox to the engine is a start up clutch - it is a single coupling device, though, comprising of more than one actual friction surface (plate). This is used to get the car going from standstill. It is not used, once rolling to change gears - the regular automatic gearbox clutches that engage and disengage the planetary gearsets are responsible for changing gear.

Here's a nice schematic showing the first, start up clutch (looking a little lost in that gigantic bell housing) and the planetary gearsets which control gear ratio with their own clutch packs (ghosted in this image):

Hence, the term multi-clutch gearbox and the whole reason why Merc can claim seamlessly smooth gear changes.

 

[andyvalencia]

Ok... so having understood that this car will not be as bold as the previous, i can definately live with the styling! However what is killing me is the choice of wheels on this car. Being a classic styled car, putting 5 spoke rims ruins the look! In my opinion adding some 20 or 21 inch multi spoke rims will make this look much better! Example:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2133842180104674737zdkbxQ

 

[coolraoul]

For the folks talking about the gearbox issue of single vs. dual vs. multi-clutch...

Just remember that the wet clutch connecting the gearbox to the engine is a start up clutch - it is a single coupling device, though, comprising of more than one actual friction surface (plate). This is used to get the car going from standstill. It is not used, once rolling to change gears - the regular automatic gearbox clutches that engage and disengage the planetary gearsets are responsible for changing gear.

Here's a nice schematic showing the first, start up clutch (looking a little lost in that gigantic bell housing) and the planetary gearsets which control gear ratio with their own clutch packs (ghosted in this image):

Hence, the term multi-clutch gearbox and the whole reason why Merc can claim seamlessly smooth gear changes.

Thanks a lot Martin! Very precious information!

One more question however: how many gearbox clutches are use once the car in motion? i can't see right through the "ghosting" in the pic.

Is it 6, one for every gear (minus the first, engaged by the start-up clutch)? So a clutch for every gear, just engaging but always ready, making it even better than a DSG where the right gear sometimes not ready? It looks like that in the pic.

Can we say, instead of a "Double-clutch" this is a "Seven-clutch" gearbox?

Or is it, I dunno, maybe one clutch for two gears, making 3 clutches (plus the start-up)? And if yes, how is it managed to change between gears? One for second and fourth, one for third and fifth, etc..., like a DSG?

Thanks for taking time to answer my questions, Martin... Much appreciated!

 

[martinbo]

The simplest way to answer your question without hijacking this thread into a tech-talk yawn is to say this:

The transmission you're looking at is a fundamental automatic slushbox sans the slush.
The arrangement of epicyclic sets of planetary, sun and ring gears and their activation via clutches is as old as the traditional auto box itself. Engaging the ring, planetary or sun is done via clutches to achieve the desired gear ratios.

This is a completely different mechanical concept to a sequential manual or DCT gearbox, neither of which make use of planetary gears to achieve a ratio. In such a case, the ratios are determined by engaging a gear of X diameter with another gear of Y diameter to achieve the desired gear ratio.

In your mind you're looking for a superiority of this design by virtue having a particular gear "pre-engaged" DSG style. Automatic gearboxes do not work in this fashion. There is no pre-selection of a gear ratio. Instead, clutches are used to determine which gears lock and which gears rotate in the planetary configuration. This is why they can claim that gears can be skipped because it behaves in exactly the same way as a regular auto 'box would upon kick down of two gears. Still, this can't detract from the mechanical fact that hydraulic pressure actuating one clutch is removed and diverted to another clutch in order to engage the appropriate ratio and this takes a certain period of time.

Automatic gearboxes, including the "slush" type have come a long way, we've seen that the auto box from ZF for the Jag XF/K range not only is rapid in its changes but also terrifically smooth. But that's not to say that they can completely outperform the directness, frictional efficiency and quicker shifting ability of a well engineered sequential or DCT transmission.

 

[coolraoul]

Million thanks Martin

 

[martinbo]

^ You're welcome.

 

[Giannis]

Thanks a million for all those valuable info you provide as Martin!

The simplest way to answer your question without hijacking this thread into a tech-talk yawn...

Could you please, tell us the differences between the DSG and the MCT transmission?

Thanks in advance!

 

[coolraoul]

MCT= a start-up wet clutch to make the car move. After that, the different gears are a set of planetary gears, the right one of which being engaged by clutches.

So the gearchange happens like it would on an automatic transmission (blisteringly fast but quite smooth in the same time), however you don't have the inertia of the torque converter (always sucking some torque, and lacking the directiveness and responsiveness to throttle inputs of a clutch).

Small power interruption during the gearchange though.

DSG= a mechanical transmission with the different gears being engaged by a motor instead of by a hand. However, being double-clutch, you always have two gears ready, each one with its clutch. When one gear is engaged, the other one (immediately superior or inferior depending on rpm, throttle etc...) is prepared.

Once the moment to change the gear has come, the gear is ready and is engaged by one clutch in the same time as the previous gear is disengaged by the other clutch. No power interruption as it happens in the same time.

Did I get it right this time, Martin?

 

[Giannis]

So VW's DSG is of the same philosophy as BMW's MDCT?