A7/S7/RS7 Official: Audi A7

[Deleted member 25]

Like it but again the best part of the concept, the front has been replaced with usual one. Something that could have been great is only likable again.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Overdosed on your arrogance pills again, klier?

Sue me if ultimate legroom didn't make it onto my list of product evaluation criteria. This is what did:

BMW 5er GT sits between 5er and 7er.
Audi A7 sits between A6 and A8.

The BMW 5er GT is a 5 door, luxury fastback.
The Audi A7 is a 5 door, luxury fastback.

The BMW 5er GT is 4.9m long
The Audi A7 is 4.9m long

BMW calls the 5er GT a gran turismo
Audi calls the A7 a gran turismo

The BMW 5er GT has a big boot and is lauded by its maker for its "practicality".
The Audi A7 has a big boot and is lauded by its maker for its "practicality".

The BMW 5er GT has a choice of 3.0 litre, 6 cylinder petrol and diesel engines. Plus a V8.
The Audi A7 has a choice of 3.0 litre, 6 cylinder petrol and diesel engines. Minus a V8 (which in TDI V8 guise is a probability in all likelihood).

BMW has endowed the 5er GT with some "unique styling features" like frameless doors to differentiate the car from the rest of the range.
Audi has endowed the A7 with some "unique styling features" like frameless doors to differentiate the car from the rest of the range.

Of course there are differentiators - that's the whole point behind differentiation - the BMW's emphasis is on rear passenger comfort and space, the Audi's is on a sleeker, more dynamic silhouette. Bigger differences have not precluded different cars from being directly compared in the past. And, I'm quite certain that a forced induction, direct injection petrol six cylinder A7 will be priced very similarly to a forced induction, direct injection petrol six cylinder BMW 5er GT. The BMW's "London Taxi-Cab" approach to interior space aside, these are two very similar cars in concept in my opinion, dare I say.

Great post! It's just a shame that even though I've blocked Klier, I can still see his drivel in other people's posts.

 

[Levi68]

So does Audi A7 rival BMW 5 GT or BMW 6 GC?

 

[martinbo]

So does Audi A7 rival BMW 5 GT or BMW 6 GC?

Well, right now it can only rival the 5er GT because the 6er GC is a long way away. So what's your point?

When the 6er GC comes along its nearest rival will be the CLS which, as a four-door saloon-coupe, is much closer than a 5 door fastback.

The point is, the Audi A7 is Audi's take on a niche-filling concept in exactly the same spirit as BMW's 5er GT is their take on filling a niche. Just because you occupy a niche doesn't preclude you from being compared. And there are many similarities between the two cars that make for logical comparison.

 

[ree]

Car can already been configurate on Audi.de:

Audi Configurator

The car is way to expensive, but with such interior parts the next A6 could be interesting though.

 

[klier]

Well, right now it can only rival the 5er GT because the 6er GC is a long way away. So what's your point?

It rivals the 5 GT as much as an 1er cabrio. Or 5er sedan. Or 6er coupé
Being some sort of niche doesn't mean they can be compared.... For instance, why is nobody comparing the A7 with an R-class...or is that too obvious?

 

[Dave1984]

So does Audi A7 rival BMW 5 GT or BMW 6 GC?

Definitely not the 5-Series GT since it's much higher (incl. sitting position) vehicle with more rear passenger room, targeting different prospects. 6-Series Gran Coupe is much closer to A7 in stance and aim, with similar potential customers. Although it comes in a sedan form just like CLS, and not as a hatchback like A7. Perhaps 6-Series Shooting Brake is the car to rival A7 directly? BMW development director hinted at such a car recently. Not approved for production yet but been designed and developed, the BMW official confirmed. What is going on with Mercedes-Benz CLS Shooting Brake? Was the car given a green light, or will continue to exist as a concept car only?

 

[Audi69]

Me. thank you!

(AND as klier stated and I proved, the A7 is not competing with the 5GT. The BMW is much larger and IMO much better looking.)

Until the BMW concept comes to a reality there is not really anything else as a comparison. A7 and 5GT both perform similar jobs in a particular market.

The A7 two door coupe version and Cabriolet (when they come out) will go head to head with the 6 Series so then we will see a more intresting debate with no compromises. Still the A7 for me.

 

[SCOTT27]

Given some time to digest the styling it may appear better in dark colours.
Reading the papers today provides a journalistic insight that the media feel the current design language has come to it's climax.

What I find surprising is that Audi talked about BMW and Mercedes-Benz CLS as more direct rivals but they never mentioned the P word.
Are VW trying to elevate the Panamera above the A7 where they are not seen as rivals?
Even if they are in direct competition?

 

[rollo]

Given some time to digest the styling it may appear better in dark colours.
Reading the papers today provides a journalistic insight that the media feel the current design language has come to it's climax.

What I find surprising is that Audi talked about BMW and Mercedes-Benz CLS as more direct rivals but they never mentioned the P word.
Are VW trying to elevate the Panamera above the A7 where they are not seen as rivals?
Even if they are in direct competition?

Not surprising really, especially when one considers the sports performance gap that will exist between the Panamera and the three "lesser" rivals along with Porsche's "aspirational" advantage. Say what you will about the Panamera style wise, which I think looks much better in the metal BTW, but the performance is outrageous!

 

[Centurion]

Given some time to digest the styling it may appear better in dark colours.
Reading the papers today provides a journalistic insight that the media feel the current design language has come to it's climax.

What I find surprising is that Audi talked about BMW and Mercedes-Benz CLS as more direct rivals but they never mentioned the P word.
Are VW trying to elevate the Panamera above the A7 where they are not seen as rivals?
Even if they are in direct competition?

The A7 and Panamera aren't really head on competitors, more than an E-Class rivals a S-Class. What the A7 is doing, is locking customers into the VAG product line. By introducing the Passat CC, A5 Sportback, A7 and Panamea, VAG are on a mission to offer a four door coupe for every wallet. Post-A7, I forsee an inevitable four door coupe version of the Continental GT which will further underline VAG's intentions to dominate the auto industry by giving customers of either brand in the portfolio, no reason to look elsewhere for any car, regardless of size, shape or price. So the A7 and Panamera are more like allies than they are rivals. Not to mention the price difference between the two. A well specced Panny Turbo will most certainly be out of reach of the average A7/CLS customer.

 

[Levi68]

It is difficult for me to give an objective judgement on the A7 because:
1. For me BMW > Audi
2. I havn't seen the A7 live (though I do not like A5 Sportback)
3. GranCoupé is just perfect, IMO the most beautiful BMW and also 4 door sedan ever built both inside and out side (I like GranCoupé even more than Quattroporte)

...underline VAG's intentions to dominate the auto industry...

VAG may, and maybe already dominates the auto industry, but does not own. The only reason is because there are no RWD cars in VAG's portofolio.

Uhm, just thought about Porsche. Is VAG's strategy, that if you want RWD, get Porsche? It is way more expensive than the premium brands.

 

[footie]

Given some time to digest the styling it may appear better in dark colours.
Reading the papers today provides a journalistic insight that the media feel the current design language has come to it's climax.

What I find surprising is that Audi talked about BMW and Mercedes-Benz CLS as more direct rivals but they never mentioned the P word.
Are VW trying to elevate the Panamera above the A7 where they are not seen as rivals?
Even if they are in direct competition?

Did you ever read Audi claiming the R8 a rival to the Gallardo? Co-developed cars yet not a word mentioned. Well the same is true with the A7 and the Panamera.

No doubt it suited dark hues but overall this is a better proportioned car than the A5SB.

 

[Centurion]

VAG may, and maybe already dominates the auto industry, but does not own. The only reason is because there are no RWD cars in VAG's portofolio.

RWD is not a neccessity for success, and that's brightly highlighted by Audi's staggering growth. The RWD vs FWD debate is no different from the contemporary Automatic vs DSG feud. One technology has performance/feedback advantage over the other but the benefits enjoyed during a daily commute to and from work are limited to the extent to which a majority of consumers don't know what wheels power their car.

 

[Levi68]

I think there still is quite a number of people that care about RWD, eventhough not being hard-core drivers. That is what keeps me away from VAG. Now if FWD, then why not VW Polo GTI, but even so, Mini Cooper S feels better for spirited driving (naturally I never drove the Polo GTI to give any valid opinion).

 

[K-A]

It is difficult for me to give an objective judgement on the A7 because:
1. For me BMW > Audi
2. I havn't seen the A7 live (though I do not like A5 Sportback)
3. GranCoupé is just perfect, IMO the most beautiful BMW and also 4 door sedan ever built both inside and out side (I like GranCoupé even more than Quattroporte)

I can't tell if that's a Buick, Volkswagen, or BMW.

What car is that?

 

[Levi68]

I can't tell if that's a Buick, Volkswagen, or BMW.

What car is that?

Are you serious or are you jealous that a beautiful BMW exists?

 

[Sunny]

The front is smoking hot, really pity they didn't give A8 this front.

 

[BlaZain]

It is difficult for me to give an objective judgement on the A7 because:
1. For me BMW > Audi
2. I havn't seen the A7 live (though I do not like A5 Sportback)
3. GranCoupé is just perfect, IMO the most beautiful BMW and also 4 door sedan ever built both inside and out side (I like GranCoupé even more than Quattroporte)

Looking at the picture of the GC - I wonder what the average man would say on the street - nice looking sedan or nice looking coupe?

All the these niche products that the German brands are introducing and the segment names they are applying to them is ridiculous. Whether its '4 door coupes' or '5 door GT's'

From wikipedia:

A coupé or coupe (from the French verb couper, to cut) is a closed car body style, the precise definition of which varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and over time. Coupés are often hardtopped sports cars or sporty variants of sedan (saloon) body styles, with doors commonly reduced from 4 to 2, and a close-coupled interior (i.e., the rear seat placed further forward than in a standard sedan) offering either two seats or 2+2 seating (space for two passengers in the front and two occasional passengers or children in the rear).

Four-door coupé - A sedan with classic coupé-like proportions. The designation was first applied to a low-roof model of the Rover P5 from 1962 until 1973[7], but was revived by the 2005 Mercedes-Benz CLS, as well as other models including the 2009 Jaguar XJ[8]. However, the low roof design reduces back seat passenger access and headroom.[9]

A fastback is a car body style whose roofline slopes continuously down at the back. The word can also designate the car itself.[1][2] The style is seen on two-door coupés as well as four-door sedans.

A grand tourer (Italian: gran turismo) (GT) is a high-performance luxury automobile designed for long-distance driving. The most common format is a two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.

By these definitions the A7 and Panamera are Fastbacks and that seems to be VAG's approach.

The 5GT is not a GT at all - GT's are the likes of the CL, Continental GT, Maserati GT etc etc. According to wikipedia - The BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo (also referred to as the BMW 5 Series GT) is an executive or mid-size car from German manufacturer BMW, which was first displayed at the 2009 Geneva Motor Show as a concept car.[1] It is the first production-destined rendition for BMW's Progressive Activity Sedan (PAS) series of cars, its development code was F07. Even BMW refer to the 5GT as a sedan (the S in PAS). One could make the argument that the 5GT is a Fastback due to the sloping roof definition. A rather unique Fastback as it sits higher more like a people carrier as oppose to a low profile most fastbacks have. To my eyes the 5GT is more of an executive hatchback.

The CLS is most definately a '4door Coupe' with the emphasis on Coupe as is the VW CC, Rapide and Estoque. The GC could be classified as a '4 door coupe but with an emphasis on sedan in the same way the Jaguar XF and Lexus GS could fall into that definition.

Guy's let not get caught up in manufacturer definitions as thats just an attempt at marketing and blur the lines, fanboys get caught up in the them and the casual observer probably does not care - they just say thats a nice car or not. Also interesting is the fact that it's the germans causing this confusion the Brits and Japanese are calling these sedans.

Its my belief that a nice car is a nice car...period. But for sake of comparison I think we should stick to the norms and not fall under into the manufacturers marketing trap. After all, all these cars are derivatives bar the Panamera.

Back to topic the A7 is a 4 door sedan fastback and the only car that comes close to being a fastback based on a similar platform is the 5GT and even thats a stretch.

Perhaps we should just classify these as - 'non traditional sedans' but thats not as sexy as coupe,fastback or GT. What would truly make all of these cars really appealing is performance improvements over their traditional sedan siblings - to date I have not seen a performance improvement on the germans. To me these cars would be more appealing if the AMG, M, S/RS for these platforms are limited to the sportier design models only. That would at least make the 20% premium these derivatives cost more appealing.

 

[Giannis]

The front is smoking hot, really pity they didn't give A8 this front.

Who's the guy in the red pants?