M5 Official: 2013 BMW M5 to get six-speed manual as no-cost option

[330CIZHP]

Previous M5 also had manual gearbox as an option in US which mean marketing have overruled M-Division long time ago

I agree with the point of view that being a 4500 lbs car turbo car might imply differently as DCT might end up being the only feasible option inspite of the demand for manual (due to DCT reducing or eliminating shift boost lag), but in the case of E60 M5 the 6 speed manual (after BMW reprogrammed the ECU in the second year to disable traction control completely) was as quick as the SMG E60 M5 and the trap speed was about the same as well so marketing in that case was a moot point.

 

[Levi68]

Previous M5 also had manual gearbox as an option in US which mean marketing have overruled M-Division long time ago

It is not the same thing. That car had an astonishing NA 5.0l V10 engine and the car was also more simple with just a normal LSD.


A manual transmission is only fun on mountain roads, and the M5 is not a car for having fun on such roads.

 

[martinbo]

A manual transmission is "only fun on mountain roads"??? Forced induction cars can't have manuals but normally aspirated ones can? The old M5 was allowed a manual transmission because it has an amazing naturally aspirated engine and an M-Diff LSD but the new M5 shouldn't have one because is has an amazing turbocharged engine with an M-Diff LSD that reacts even faster now?

Some of the most arbitrary and random kak rules I've ever read on car forums has manifested in several of the posts in this thread.

 

[klier]

Yeah, sure a 2000 kg sedan is a pure drivers car!

I agree with you about the E39, but the F10 is completly another thing, it is very high-tech sedan compared to the "hard-core" M5 E39

The E39 M5 has a curb weight of 1800+ kg, and has 'only' 400 hp. What exactly makes it hardcore? Because as far as I know, the car came with like 8 airbags, leather electric seats, airco dual zone, a tv, navigation and a lot of other not so hardcore stuff.

The E39 is as hardcore as the F10 is. How hardcore that exactly is, is up to you. But saying one is more hardcore than the other is just not true.
If anything, the E60 M5 is the odd one out in these three M5 generations. And if anything, it's the 'most hardcore' too with it's SMG neck breaker and high revving NA screamer. In concept at least.

A manual transmission is only fun on mountain roads, and the M5 is not a car for having fun on such roads.

Oh ok. Lets skip the part where the F10 M5 is faster on a track (track pretty much equals 'mountain road') than the E92 M3.
That alone warrants 'fun'.

Some of the most arbitrary and random kak rules I've ever read on car forums has manifested in several of the posts in this thread.

I agree. Too many contradictions.

 

[south]

Some of the most arbitrary and random kak rules I've ever read on car forums has manifested in several of the posts in this thread.

I couldn't agree more. I'm quite relaxed usually but this thread makes me wanna swing the ban hammer more than once.


Best regards,
south

 

[klier]

I couldn't agree more. I'm quite relaxed usually but this thread makes me wanna swing the ban hammer more than once.


Best regards,
south

Well people are being civil and quite polite, and least that's something. But feel free to ban people if you must, just make sure you stay relaxed

ps,
and make the ban quick; a knife in the right place of the lower part of the neck will not make it hurt! (joke!)

 

[Levi68]

Ok, why were not the M3 GTS/CRT offered with manual transmission what would be alot more appropriate? Because no demand? But now that there is demand for a manual M5 BMW offers this possiblity. So the reason is marketing, not driving experience as all here say. Unfortunately there is not enough demand for BMW to build a series and not limited production M3 CSL, and a Z2, or at least a Z4 M Coupé.


PS: At least in two years time manual M5's with low km will be so cheap. Just find a wrecked M5 DCT and swap the gearbox.

 

[klier]

The are not offered because you are not able to max out/ take advantage of the performance with a manual gearbox.. DTC is much faster than a manual, so it's fairly simple really. GTS and CRT are all about being as fast as possible.

So the reason is very much so the driving experience. So much even that the people who buy a manual don't care about being a couple of tenths of a second slower.
People who buy a GTS however, do very much care about those couple of tenths.

And what are you going to do with a wrecked car with a new manual gearbox? Or is the new gearbox going to repair the car?

 

[Deckhook]

^ The thread will get super messy if we start discussing cars like the GTS and CRT as well as the M5 but with regards to those cars I do think Klier you are completely wrong that those customers aren't all about the driving experience, I am sure it's at the forefront of their mind because overall it's performance isn't a million miles away from the regular M3.

I just think it's a rather odd decision to compromise a car this perfect with this gearbox and then go on to making the decision to solely offer it to one market and not to everyone.

 

[martinbo]

It plainly and simply boils down to how well you can drive a manual. Honestly, very very few people have a clue of what it feels like to drive/be driven in a properly done manual. It's an Art. In the end most average drivers are made to look like heroes by automated transmissions relative - they flatter to deceive - and therein lies the "perfection" of the dual clutch transmission.

Realistically, even I wouldn't buy an M5 with a manual gearbox, there, admitted. Where it imparts a measure of involvement it will detract from the other virtues to a greater extent in my opinion. That by no means renders the option of a manual, for those hellbent on stir crazy and willing to pay for it, pointless.

 

[Zafiro]

Why are people complainining on manual gearboxes. I have used manual gearbox for 17 years and I still enjoy driving my car

 

[Deckhook]

Why are people complainining on manual gearboxes. I have used manual gearbox for 17 years and I still enjoy driving my car

I'm not complaining about manuals per say just that on the likes of the M5 it compromises the perfection of the car. And like you I've driven manuals for well over your 17 years by more than 10 so I don't understand the whole idea that it's a blackmagic art of the privilege few, because after so many years I think almost all 30+ drivers in Europe are highly skilled with a manual. That's maybe why we don't feel less of a driver for choosing DCT because we all have driven stick since we all started to drive, maybe it's an image thing for Americans as it gives the outward image of a skillful driver.

IMO Levi hit the nail on the head, BMW's top drivers car the GTS didn't get offered with manual even though that gearbox was already sitting fully developed for the rest of the drivetrain. I don't fully agree that manual adds a huge amount to the overall experience and have never came away for a trackday thinking to myself that I wished I had been driving a manual instead of PDK. And anyway once you're away from the track and in heavy traffic it's a f'ing pain.

 

[rollo]

maybe it's an image thing for Americans as it gives the outward image of a skillful driver.

Good Lord Deckhook, give it a rest. You are starting to piss me off.

 

[Deckhook]

Good Lord Deckhook, give it a rest. You are starting to piss me off.

Apologises as it wasn't my intention, only to try and understand possible reasons why the need for a manual. Take the Toyota Prius, some will be bought by people who genuinely are concerned about the environment but the majority are probably bought for the outward image it portrays about them.

P.S.
I'm not suggesting you or anyone else isn't a skilful driver, just that maybe the image of driving a manual gives that outward impression because the mast majority of US cars are equipped with autos which is the reverse of Europe.

 

[klier]

It plainly and simply boils down to how well you can drive a manual. Honestly, very very few people have a clue of what it feels like to drive/be driven in a properly done manual.

Maybe in Africa and America, but not Europe. Until just a short couple of years ago, 95% of all cars had a properly done manual. So sad those times are rapidly fading away And btw, I think there's a lot of manual cars in Africa too?
I remember when an automatic transmission was exclusive....

 

[south]

Apologises as it wasn't my intention, only to try and understand possible reasons why the need for a manual.

You're not trying to understand them, you're trying to mock them.


Best regards,
south

 

[330CIZHP]

I have been in this argument with a lot of M-DCT owners on another forum.

I agree with what you said. I consider myself an "expert" at rev-matching and heel-toe downshifts to the point it has become a second nature in daily driving. I don't have to go to the track to enjoy these techniques as I can do it effortlessly before every turn or anytime I need to pass another car on the highway. I definitely would not be willing to give up the enjoyment of interacting with the car at such intimate level.

Ofcourse, to someone not familiar with this concept (most of the people who know how to drive a manual have no clue what I am talking about), I could understand he/she not seeing any advantage as far as the driver being connected to the car is concerned.

It plainly and simply boils down to how well you can drive a manual. Honestly, very very few people have a clue of what it feels like to drive/be driven in a properly done manual. It's an Art. In the end most average drivers are made to look like heroes by automated transmissions relative - they flatter to deceive - and therein lies the "perfection" of the dual clutch transmission.

Realistically, even I wouldn't buy an M5 with a manual gearbox, there, admitted. Where it imparts a measure of involvement it will detract from the other virtues to a greater extent in my opinion. That by no means renders the option of a manual, for those hellbent on stir crazy and willing to pay for it, pointless.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I don't know about this story but I even chose a manual in my luxury car...
I cannot live without a manual (I'm not kidding)
The performance car in my garage has pedal shifters and I don't care too much because I still have a manual

 

[Human]

Offering the M5 with a manual is 'what we came to expect from BMW ///M" so brilliant, well done and thank you!

Personally I will have the M-DCT, that is until I have learned to drive and enjoy the car properly and honed my driving skill to my personal best ability of becoming a driver worthy of an M5 THEN the manual will be my reward.

A pure drivers car it's going to be that manual!

It plainly and simply boils down to how well you can drive a manual. Honestly, very very few people have a clue of what it feels like to drive/be driven in a properly done manual. It's an Art. In the end most average drivers are made to look like heroes by automated transmissions relative - they flatter to deceive - and therein lies the "perfection" of the dual clutch transmission.

Realistically, even I wouldn't buy an M5 with a manual gearbox, there, admitted. Where it imparts a measure of involvement it will detract from the other virtues to a greater extent in my opinion. That by no means renders the option of a manual, for those hellbent on stir crazy and willing to pay for it, pointless.

 

[Levi68]

OK, I only drive manual and don't like auto. However if I'd buy an M5 I would take it as DCT, whereas an M3 as manual. But now let someone aswer me this?

When I got my driving license I wanted one of my favorite cars, the M3 E46 or the 750i E38. The 7 Series with V12 was very cheap and usual had full option. I did not buy because it had no manual transmision. Why don't they offer a manual V12 car?